Elias Pettersson vs. Auston Matthews

[DueDiligence]

Matthews easily. If Matthews was playing with the Canucks right now; nucks would be leading the series against VGK. EP has better team support than AM

perhaps better to put this to poll after EP's elc is expired and he signs a new deal.

Well Matthews's teammates are certainly paid like they give great support!

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Vancouver has a pretty good supporting cast, albeit not Cup-contender level (even though they are two wins away from the Conference Finals), and their team is arguably the best roster in Canada. EP isn't hurting for support, as he has Miller, Horvat, Boeser, and Hughes who are all high level offensive players.

Toronto has a counterpart to each one of those players who is currently a better offensive player.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I 100% take Pettersson.

Just is such a well-rounded player.

 

[The Beyonder]

Pettersson is a great player and is emerging as an elite star player, but Matthews goal scoring numbers are just ridiculous. The guy finished 2nd in the rocket twice in his 4 year career, and who knows where he would have finished in those other 2 years where he was hampered with injuries. In his 4 years in the league, Matthews is..

1st in even strength goals (despite injuries)
2nd in goals (despite injuries)
2nd in GPG with .56 over 285 games

And those 2nd places are to Ovi. It's a huge sample size that indicative of how much of an elite goal scorer he is. Since his 40 goal rookie seasons, he's scored at a 45 goal pace the past 3 years (scoring 47 last year).

I think, if healthy, Matthews is a sure bet 45-55 goal scorer going forward with potential to have 60 goal seasons . The only other players I put into that goal scoring bracket are Ovi, Drai, Pasta and possibly McDavid going forward.

Sure Petterson can be the better player, but one playoff run is too small. Players have hot years, season and/or post-season. Large sample size is indicative of the talent level, and for 4 years Matthews has been an elite goal scorer in the league. It surprises me though that people think Petersen is a 100 point potential player, while Matthews is not.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think, if healthy, Matthews is a sure bet 45-55 goal scorer going forward with potential to have 60 goal seasons . The only other players I put into that goal scoring bracket are Ovi, Drai, Pasta and possibly McDavid going forward.

In Matthews rookie season he played all 82 games and scored 40 goals.

This past season he played in all 70 games the Leafs played and had 47 goals. If all 82 games were played and Matthews plays in them chances are he ends up with 55 or 56 goals.

So I think Matthews has already proven what he can do when he doesn't miss any games due to injury which effected him during the 2017-18 and 2018-19 seasons.

 

[Dache]

I honestly don't remember anyone calling Pettersson an elite goal scorer and I think only using their point totals after 2 years is a way to make him look better then Matthews since they had the same amount.

So you know think that using 4 years for one vs 2 years for the other, or only using goals is not a way to make only one player look better?

 

[Dache]

It seems to me whenever Matthews is compared to any other players no matter if it's Pettersson or previous comparisons to Jack Eichel and Patrik Laine, it always comes down to his point totals. So if I was going to compare what their point totals was after their 2nd seasons since they happened to get the same amount, I would also have included how he was also head in goals scored at 74 - 55.

You’re telling me that in the old comparisons of Laine and Matthews that points was the focus? You know as well as I do that those 2 were compared as goal scorers.

 

[Dache]

Matthews easily. If Matthews was playing with the Canucks right now; nucks would be leading the series against VGK. EP has better team support than AM

perhaps better to put this to poll after EP's elc is expired and he signs a new deal.

So with EP and Matthews both removed from their teams you would pick the Canucks?

 

[LeafsNation75]

You’re telling me that in the old comparisons of Laine and Matthews that points was the focus? You know as well as I do that those 2 were compared as goal scorers.

When Laine got 70 points in his 2nd season some people brought up how he got to that specific number before Matthews did.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Matthews easily. If Matthews was playing with the Canucks right now; nucks would be leading the series against VGK. EP has better team support than AM

perhaps better to put this to poll after EP's elc is expired and he signs a new deal.

So you take the second leading scorer in the playoffs off of the Canucks and the Canucks would somehow be doing better?
I ain’t buying what you’re selling.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

So you know think that using 4 years for one vs 2 years for the other, or only using goals is not a way to make only one player look better?

Better way to look at it would be there D+2 and D+3 seasons, since both have played those years.

 

[Video Nasty]

In Matthews rookie season he played all 82 games and scored 40 goals.

This past season he played in all 70 games the Leafs played and had 47 goals. If all 82 games were played and Matthews plays in them chances are he ends up with 55 or 56 goals.

So I think Matthews has already proven what he can do when he doesn't miss any games due to injury which effected him during the 2017-18 and 2018-19 seasons.

I agree with you that Matthews was a lock for 50. That’s about all though. Everything else is “might have paced” nonsense. He had a 3 goal in 13 game stretch during this very season. In his final 15 games of this season, he had 7 goals and 12 points. Being a normal star player that is not a generational talent, I don’t give the benefit of the doubt.

I think there was a 99% chance of at least 50 goals on the nose and a 90% chance of least 90 points, but anything more is guesswork, speculation, and fingers crossed for fun talking points.

It’s nice to be so adamant and sure that he would have hit 56 goals, but it’s such a high number that’s been touched only 6 separate times by 4 players since the start of the 1996-1997 season that I can’t help but be skeptical.

Ovechkin 65, Stamkos 60, Bure 59, Bure 58, Cheechoo 56, Ovechkin 56. That’s it since Lemieux and Jagr both topped 60 in 1995-1996. No one has been higher than 53 since the end of 2008-2009 except Stamkos in 2011-2012.

Ovechkin is the only one I trust to have hit at finished with least 54 if those remaining 12 or so games were played. He’s the only one who has earned the benefit of the doubt and I’ve been vocal about my doubt with him continuing to nail 50 over and over quite often yet I still trust him over these other “goal scorers”.

 

[Bobby9]

Ones a goal scorer and the other is a winner. Always take the winner.

 

[Dache]

When Laine got 70 points in his 2nd season some people brought up how he got to that specific number before Matthews did.

Sure. But it was because they were both equal goal scorers at that time.

 

[Dache]

Better way to look at it would be there D+2 and D+3 seasons, since both have played those years.

No that’s another way to look at it. Both have reasons to be better than the other.

 

[dubey]

Matthews ANIEC

 

[LeafsNation75]

I agree with you that Matthews was a lock for 50. That’s about all though. Everything else is “might have paced” nonsense. He had a 3 goal in 13 game stretch during this very season. In his final 15 games of this season, he had 7 goals and 12 points. Being a normal star player that is not a generational talent, I don’t give the benefit of the doubt.

I think there was a 99% chance of at least 50 goals on the nose and a 90% chance of least 90 points, but anything more is guesswork, speculation, and fingers crossed for fun talking points.

It’s nice to be so adamant and sure that he would have hit 56 goals, but it’s such a high number that’s been touched only 6 separate times by 4 players since the start of the 1996-1997 season that I can’t help but be skeptical.

Ovechkin 65, Stamkos 60, Bure 59, Bure 58, Cheechoo 56, Ovechkin 56. That’s it since Lemieux and Jagr both topped 60 in 1995-1996.

Ovechkin is the only one I trust to have hit at finished with least 54 if those remaining 12 or so games were played. He’s the only one who has earned the benefit of the doubt and I’ve been vocal about my doubt with him continuing to nail 50 over and over quite often yet I still trust him over these other “goal scorers”.

I believe Matthews was on pace for 56 goals after the Leafs game on March 10 which was their last game played before the season got suspended. So that's why I said that number and it would also have set a new Leafs record for most goals scored in a season, because the current number is 54 goals scored by Rick Vaive.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Matthews first 2 seasons were his D+1 and D+2. Pettersson D+2 and D+3.

Pettersson's playoffs certainly are impressive though.

If you want to count Pettserssen's D+1. This is what he did.

• 2017-2018
  • SHL Best Junior (EliteProspects.com Award)
  • SHL Best Plus/Minus (+27)
  • SHL Champion
  • SHL Forward of the Year
  • SHL Most Assists by Junior (32)
  • SHL Most Goals by Junior (24)
  • SHL Most Goals Playoffs (10)
  • SHL Most Points (56)
  • SHL Most Points by Junior (56)
  • SHL Most Points Playoffs (19)
  • SHL Most Valuable Player
  • SHL Playoffs MVP (Stefan Liv Memorial Trophy)
  • SHL Rookie of the Year
  • Swedish Forward of the Year
  • U20 WJC Silver Medal
  • World Championship Gold Medal

I think they are close enough in age to compare their first 2 seasons in the NHL where both Matthews and Petterssen were both 19 when the season started in their rookie years.

 

[Video Nasty]

I believe Matthews was on pace for 56 goals after the Leafs game on March 10 which was their last game played before the season got suspended. So that's why I said that number and it would also have set a new Leafs record for most goals scored in a season, because the current number is 54 goals scored by Rick Vaive.

My long boring post was meant to say that pace is worthless and the only one who should be trusted to touch large goal numbers consistently is Ovechkin.

To demonstrate how pointless pace is, consider that Matthews had 40 goals in 55 games after Feb 7th. That’s a 59.6 goal/82 game pace.

If the season was suspended then, those would be the new numbers and they would still hold true for breaking that Vaive’s record speculation. If you were told that 15 more games could be played to get up to his real life 70 games played, he should have 51 goals according to you and anyone who uses pace as an argument.

In reality though, he had 47 goals.

I don’t trust pace and projections unless the players names are Gretzky and Lemieux. They were as bullet proof as one could be because they didn’t go through prolonged slumps and in the case of Lemieux, if he did, he would go ballistic and pile up 8 points after he went pointless a couple of nights.

And Ovechkin in the midst of another clearly 50+ goal campaign can be counted on to finish with anywhere from 6-10 goals with 13 games for him remaining to be the only with a realistic shot at 56 or above.

 

[LeafsNation75]

My long boring post was meant to say that pace is worthless and the only one who should be trusted to touch large goal numbers consistently is Ovechkin.

To demonstrate how pointless pace is, consider that Matthews had 40 goals in 55 games after Feb 7th. That’s a 59.6 goal/82 game pace.

If the season was suspended then, those would be the new numbers and they would still hold true for breaking that Vaive’s record speculation. If you were told that 15 more games could be played to get up to his real life 70 games played, he should have 51 goals according to you and anyone who uses pace as an argument.

In reality though, he had 47 goals.

I don’t trust pace and projections unless the players names are Gretzky and Lemieux. They were as bullet proof as one could be because they didn’t go through prolonged slumps and in the case of Lemieux, if he did, he would go ballistic and pile up 8 points after he went pointless a couple of nights.

And Ovechkin in the midst of another clearly 50+ goal campaign.

I realize pace means nothing unless a player gets those specific numbers.

I was just stating at that time Matthews on pace to set a new Leafs record for goals scored in a season and no one thought the 2019-20 regular season was going to be suspended and eventually not re-started when Bettman made that announcement saying it was over and they would go right to the playoffs in the two bubble cities.

 

[robsenz]

I'll take the team player that doesn't have a douchestache

 

[PromisedLand]

So with EP and Matthews both removed from their teams you would pick the Canucks?

Easily. Do you watch Canucks play? That team plays like a coherent unit with puck pressure and back-check; if Matthews played on a team like that he would be very hard to handle

 

[Video Nasty]

I realize pace means nothing unless a player gets those specific numbers.

I was just stating at that time Matthews on pace to set a new Leafs record for goals scored in a season and no one thought the 2019-20 regular season was going to be suspended and eventually not re-started when Bettman made that announcement saying it was over and they would go right to the playoffs in the two bubble cities.

I can only comment on what you posted.

“This past season he played in all 70 games the Leafs played and had 47 goals. If all 82 games were played and Matthews plays in them chances are he ends up with 55 or 56 goals.”

“Chances are” is what it sounds like. A much better shot than not.

If you’re telling me now it’s all about commenting on what the Leafs record is, I’ll shut this down and take your word for it. Peace.

 

[Dache]

I believe Matthews was on pace for 56 goals after the Leafs game on March 10 which was their last game played before the season got suspended. So that's why I said that number and it would also have set a new Leafs record for most goals scored in a season, because the current number is 54 goals scored by Rick Vaive.

Whoa whoa. You specifically told me in a different thread that you cannot use pace and only what a player actually got for totals

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Whoa whoa. You specifically told me in a different thread that you cannot use pace and only what a player actually got for totals

He changes his positions more often than most people change their underwear.
Now pace only counts if it favours the Leaf player.
Well if we’re playing that game, Pettersson is on pace for 94 points over an 82 game playoff sample with 18 points in 15 games. Matthews has 19 points in 25 playoff games for a 62 point pace.