Speculation: Eichel Megathread VI: Eichel's agent issue statement critical of Sabres

[Kublakhan]

Not sure if anyone can answer this. Before I ask it , I want to point out something that I believe is accurate (correct me if I'm wrong)

If a player chooses to retire in the middle of his contract, the contractual obligation ends with both parties, but the team still hold his rights if he were come back during the lifetime of his contact.

So hypothetically what if Eichel retired and then does his own surgery. Once you retire, the team has 0 say on what surgical procedure you do in private life. Then after the surgery ,Eichel says he wants to return to the NHL . His contract with Buffalo will be counted again where it left off. Eichel resumes his former stance of wanting to be traded. I assume Buffalo can't suspend or even void his contract because his surgery took place at a time when he deassociated him self with NHL as a retired player.

It may be pointed out that if you retire, you need to stay retired for a full season. I don't think that's accurate. Mike Fisher once retired with Nashville, only to come back later in the same season and participated on their playoff run.

So can Eichel theoretically do what I suggest?

Some good information here thanks

 

[Rangers ftw]

Buffalo fans right now

This. It’s like for every times the situation with Eichel gets worse, they somehow turn it into a reason why his value now has increased.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

A line of Skinner, Okposo and Lucic would be worth watching. It doesn't matter who plays as the C of the three.

 

[Legend123]

Not sure if anyone can answer this. Before I ask it , I want to point out something that I believe is accurate (correct me if I'm wrong)

If a player chooses to retire in the middle of his contract, the contractual obligation ends with both parties, but the team still hold his rights if he were come back during the lifetime of his contact.

So hypothetically what if Eichel retired and then does his own surgery. Once you retire, the team has 0 say on what surgical procedure you do in private life. Then after the surgery ,Eichel says he wants to return to the NHL . His contract with Buffalo will be counted again where it left off. Eichel resumes his former stance of wanting to be traded. I assume Buffalo can't suspend or even void his contract because his surgery took place at a time when he deassociated him self with NHL as a retired player.

It may be pointed out that if you retire, you need to stay retired for a full season. I don't think that's accurate. Mike Fisher once retired with Nashville, only to come back later in the same season and participated on their playoff run.

So can Eichel theoretically do what I suggest?

I don't think eichel was blessed with big brains

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

If Calgary trades for Eichel, I assume the following players/assets are going back to Buffalo.
Mangiapane
Andersson
Lucic
2022 first

3 roster players? wtf? Buffalo literally asked for futures, they will get futures

 

[elchud]

3 roster players? wtf? Buffalo literally asked for futures, they will get futures

We could take roster players. For example, Mangiapane and Lucic would be fine. We could also take Andersson but Colin Miller would absolutely go back as well.

Zary needs to be a part of this trade.

I do think we would prefer futures.

Eichel & Miller

Andersson & Mangiapane & Lucic & Zary & 1st

I would do that trade. I dont think the Pegulas want to take on that much salary however.

Taking on Lucic for the Sabres will mean taking on a 2022 1st rounder (probably more as its 2 years left). So the offer is actually Andersson and Mangiapane which is not enough.

 

[elchud]

A line of Skinner, Okposo and Lucic would be worth watching. It doesn't matter who plays as the C of the three.

Skinner Mittelstadt Cozens
Olofsson Ruotsalainen Thompson
Mangiapane Girgensons Hinostroza
Bjork Asplund Okposo
Caggiula

Lucic would be the 14th forward.

 

[elchud]

You only have 2 quality pieces in the offer, the rest are meh

Eichel
Bryson

Gardiner
Jarvis
Suzuki
Morrow
2022 1st
2023 1st

I wouldn't like that trade but the value is there and would take it if that's the best offer.

 

[Legend123]

Guhle
Romanov
Poehling/Ylonen/Tuch
1rst*
Lehkonen

*sabres have option to defer it by 2 years or flip it for a pre selected range of prospects

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Skinner Mittelstadt Cozens
Olofsson Ruotsalainen Thompson
Mangiapane Girgensons Hinostroza
Bjork Asplund Okposo
Caggiula

Lucic would be the 14th forward.

This has to be the AHL team, where is the team the ice in the NHL?

 

[elchud]

Guhle
Romanov
Poehling/Ylonen/Tuch
1rst
Lehkonen

Sabres have no room for any LHD this year in Buffalo or Rochester.

Romanov can play RHD but...dont like him as the main piece.

We get not moving Suzuki or CC but KK has to be a part.

And this ignores the fact that Montreal has to overpay, or, have a significantly higher package than a WC team.

 

[elchud]

This has to be the AHL team, where is the team the ice in the NHL?

The point was we can take Mangiapane and Lucic, not that it was a competitive forward lineup. And that Lucic would not be in the top 12.

Sabres are a shoe in for bottom-4 team. Everybody knows this.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

We could take roster players. For example, Mangiapane and Lucic would be fine. We could also take Andersson but Colin Miller would absolutely go back as well.

Zary needs to be a part of this trade.

I do think we would prefer futures.

Eichel & Miller

Andersson & Mangiapane & Lucic & Zary & 1st

I would do that trade. I dont think the Pegulas want to take on that much salary however.

Taking on Lucic for the Sabres will mean taking on a 2022 1st rounder. So the offer is actually Andersson and Mangiapane which is not enough.

Or we could stick with the usual and do Monahan + Dube + futures. There is zero chance Flames are going to move Mangiapane, and very unlikely they would move Andersson

 

[elchud]

Or we could stick with the usual and do Monahan + Dube + futures. There is zero chance Flames are going to move Mangiapane, and very unlikely they would move Andersson

I would want to know what Monahans immediate trade value was before making that sort of a deal. I dont know if any team would offer more than a 1st and 2nd for him right now. And there would have to be salary retention involved with that.

So, I would look at Monahan as a non-lottery 1st and a 2nd. But is that what he could get in a trade today? I have no idea.

Sabres have to get a center prospect back. So if no Zary theres no trade. If it gets to the point where Eichel has to go for the best offer, and thats the best offer, than so be it.

 

[Legend123]

Sabres have no room for any LHD this year in Buffalo or Rochester.

Romanov can play RHD but...dont like him as the main piece.

We get not moving Suzuki or CC but KK has to be a part.

And this ignores the fact that Montreal has to overpay, or, have a significantly higher package than a WC team.

This package seems better than most here by a fair margin.

Romanov can play RD, imo he's good enough to be the main piece. He does everything, defense offense and hard hitting.

Most our top end prospects are Ds. So maybe swap guhle with mailloux or norlinder + first or b prospect.

I don't mind swapping Romanov with kk. But unless a team is offering the equivalent of kk and Romanov as two main pieces, I hope habs dont

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I would want to know what Monahans immediate trade value was before making that sort of a deal. I dont know if any team would offer more than a 1st and 2nd for him right now. And there would have to be salary retention involved with that.

So, I would look at Monahan as a non-lottery 1st and a 2nd. But is that what he could get in a trade today? I have no idea.

Sabres have to get a center prospect back. So if no Zary theres no trade. If it gets to the point where Eichel has to go for the best offer, and thats the best offer, than so be it.

Well my assumption would be it is a 3-way trade to begin with

Would you do DeBrusk + Moore + Vaak + 1st from Boston for Monahan? Then Buffalo also gets Dube + Zary + 1st from Calgary.

 

[elchud]

To be fair, as a Sabres fan, I absolutely get that Eichel has diminished value. I also can put myself in another teams GM spot and ask what would I give up for a player with Eichels serious issue (s).

I think the Sabres have another 7 weeks or so to get an excellent value return so would prefer they not settle for a disappointing return.

If he isn't moved by 22 September, I start feeling extremely nervous and all these offers which are disappointing look much more enticing.

There is a bottom line to me...a high end center prospects. Id do Krebs/Tuch/Miller right now even though I dont like the value. KK/Drouin/Byron/1st/1st id do right now even though its Montreal. Im not as diamond hands as most Sabres fans.

 

[elchud]

Well my assumption would be it is a 3-way trade to begin with

Would you do DeBrusk + Moore + Vaak + 1st from Boston for Monahan? Then Buffalo also gets Dube + Zary + 1st from Calgary.

I think Boston needs to move more than Debrusk to fit Monahan.

Monahan at half retention for Debrusk, 22 1st, 23 1st, I'm down for that. Moore and Vaak have no value to Buffalo.

To me Zarys ceiling is solid 2C, more likely a really good 3C on a SC contender. But the three 1sts are fantastic for what we are trying to do.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

To be fair, as a Sabres fan, I absolutely get that Eichel has diminished value. I also can put myself in another teams GM spot and ask what would I give up for a player with Eichels serious issue (s).

I think the Sabres have another 7 weeks or so to get an excellent value return so would prefer they not settle for a disappointing return.

If he isn't moved by 22 September, I start feeling extremely nervous and all these offers which are disappointing look much more enticing.

There is a bottom line to me...a high end center prospects. Id do Krebs/Tuch/Miller right now even though I dont like the value. KK/Drouin/Byron/1st/1st id do right now even though its Montreal. Im not as diamond hands as most Sabres fans.

I don't think its that much time, the team acquiring Eichel will have to almost instantly get him his surgery. That will take 6 weeks of recovery before he can start practicing in non-contact again and 8-12 before he can actually play again. We are currently just under 8 weeks away from preseason and just under 11 weeks from the start of the season. So I would say his price starts dropping as soon as that 10 weeks to the season mark hits

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I think Boston needs to move more than Debrusk to fit Monahan.

Monahan at half retention for Debrusk, 22 1st, 23 1st, I'm down for that. Moore and Vaak have no value to Buffalo.

To me Zarys ceiling is solid 2C, more likely a really good 3C on a SC contender. But the three 1sts are fantastic for what we are trying to do.

DeBrusk + Moore = 6.425M cap space which covers enough room for Monahan entirely. Vaak can be used as a 3 pair guy in a shutdown role in Buffalo, I wouldnt say he has no value. Moore is a cap dump here, if Power stays in the NCAA another year then you have someone who can play.

Zary's ceiling is definitely higher than a 3C, he has legitimate 1C potential, but more of a low end 1C high end 2C

If you prefer retention that's fine too but I doubt you would get 2 1sts from them

 

[elchud]

I don't think its that much time, the team acquiring Eichel will have to almost instantly get him his surgery. That will take 6 weeks of recovery before he can start practicing in non-contact again and 8-12 before he can actually play again. We are currently just under 8 weeks away from preseason and just under 11 weeks from the start of the season. So I would say his price starts dropping as soon as that 10 weeks to the season mark hits

This sounds sensible.

I think Eichel on IR for a month or two isn't necessarily catastrophic for a team at the cap. If I understand LTIR, and the daily cap calculation, a team could accrue incremental cap space while Eichel is out, and then when LTIR is finished the salary pool stops, but that saved accrued cap space is still there. So that might actually be useful to some teams.

 

[elchud]

DeBrusk + Moore = 6.425M cap space which covers enough room for Monahan entirely. Vaak can be used as a 3 pair guy in a shutdown role in Buffalo, I wouldnt say he has no value. Moore is a cap dump here, if Power stays in the NCAA another year then you have someone who can play

If you prefer retention that's fine too but I doubt you would get 2 1sts from them

Yeah. I see what you're selling. But we just added Butcher.

Moore would essentially be a cap dump

Monahan & Jacob Bryson & Hagg
for
DeBrusk & Moore & 1st & 2nd & Vaak

It's overly complicated but thats what I'd do. Boston could immediately waive Hagg or bury his contract. Bryson has upside and skill as a smallish PMD PP2 type who can really skate.

Would retain a bit on Monahan to make it work. A bit.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

This sounds sensible.

I think Eichel on IR for a month or two isn't necessarily catastrophic for a team at the cap. If I understand LTIR, and the daily cap calculation, a team could accrue incremental cap space while Eichel is out, and then when LTIR is finished the salary pool stops, but that saved accrued cap space is still there. So that might actually be useful to some teams.

Eichel would still count against the cap so no you would not accrue cap space from that. Also the team acquiring Eichel probably doesnt want to be going without a top 6 center for a long period of time. Unless your Anaheim and not expecting to compete it could be problematic. Calgary could manage with Backlund at 2C and Coleman at 3C (or flipped) but Minnesota for example probably couldnt

 

[elchud]

Eichel would still count against the cap so no you would not accrue cap space from that. Also the team acquiring Eichel probably doesnt want to be going without a top 6 center for a long period of time. Unless your Anaheim and not expecting to compete it could be problematic. Calgary could manage with Backlund at 2C and Coleman at 3C (or flipped) but Minnesota for example probably couldnt

He would count against the cap but the cap is raised to the cap max plus any salaries on LTIR.

I've read and re-read the rules on this. I may be wrong. Fine I'm probably wrong. But it clearly says the cap is increased to the max cap plus the LTIR salaries. And the cap is calculated daily.

Yes, when the player is off LTIR you're back to the basic maximum cap. But its a daily calculation so money was saved when the LTIR pool was in effect.

This would fail if you *replaced* Eichels salary when he was on LTIR. Which you could absolutely do. Choosing not to do so would be why savings would accrue.

 

[elchud]

I'm pretty down on DeBrusk. To me he is a guy who isn't worth qualifying or going to arbitration with next offseason.