Ehlers vs Marner & Nylander

[Whileee]

I think you have your narratives mixed. Neither Nylander nor Marner are big goal scorers so you usually judge them off of points not goals.

Secondly, no one said Leafs were miles ahead of the Jets, we said Leafs were ahead of their own schedule. Jets were perennial underachievers. They always went into the season with a great lineup and found ways to be trash. Be happy Helly is coming up big for you guys this year, otherwise you'd be right back where you were every single year.

Do you even understand anything about the Jets roster and history?

 

[nobody]

Do you even understand anything about the Jets roster and history?

What is there to understand? The fact that Laine was playing amazing as a rookie and wasn't even a top 3 guy on the team or the fact that, THAT exact same team missed the playoffs by a good margin. Jets have had a great roster for a while. The fans have tried to discredit Maurice (who I've liked since his days with the Marlies) and everything he did until magically they found one goalie who didn't manage to suck and bury the team. Jets aren't as good as their record shows right now but they've always been a fairly decent team who have managed to underwhelm myself and many other hockey fans who always thought of them as a playoff team for the past few seasons.

I understand the Jets roster and history. Go take your excuses elsewhere.

 

[Whileee]

What is there to understand? The fact that Laine was playing amazing as a rookie and wasn't even a top 3 guy on the team or the fact that, THAT exact same team missed the playoffs by a good margin. Jets have had a great roster for a while. The fans have tried to discredit Maurice (who I've liked since his days with the Marlies) and everything he did until magically they found one goalie who didn't manage to suck and bury the team. Jets aren't as good as their record shows right now but they've always been a fairly decent team who have managed to underwhelm myself and many other hockey fans who always thought of them as a playoff team for the past few seasons.

I understand the Jets roster and history. Go take your excuses elsewhere.

Jets haven't had a 'great roster' for a while. They have completely revamped the roster with talented young players over the past 2-3 seasons.

Scheifele, Trouba, Ehlers, Laine, Morrissey, Hellebuyck, Lowry, Connor, Copp, Armia, Tanev, etc. These are all young players that have either just started or just hit their stride in the past 2 seasons.

Last year the Jets were still bringing along young players and rookies that were still learning the NHL game, and had a horrendous amount of injuries. They also had a sophomore goalie (Hellebuyck) that was struggling with the #1 responsibilities. Knowledgeable fans and the Jets management and coaches knew that this season was the first that they would likely be a legitimate contender, which is why Chevy finally made a splash in UFA went out and picked up Kulikov and Mason, and swapped a #13 pick for a #24 overall to retain core roster players in the expansion draft. Coaches, management and players have all said that after a period of draft and development, this was the year that they were focused on "playoffs or bust". It's not a coincidence that the Jets' big media campaign this season was #RiseTogether.

The notion that the Jets have had a good roster that has just underperformed shows a lack of in-depth knowledge about the development of the roster and the organization over the past several seasons.

 

[tgo0]

I like Ehlers more than either of them but 2:1 make me vote Marlander in this.

 

[nobody]

Jets haven't had a 'great roster' for a while. They have completely revamped the roster with talented young players over the past 2-3 seasons.

Scheifele, Trouba, Ehlers, Laine, Morrissey, Hellebuyck, Lowry, Connor, Copp, Armia, Tanev, etc. These are all young players that have either just started or just hit their stride in the past 2 seasons.

Last year the Jets were still bringing along young players and rookies that were still learning the NHL game, and had a horrendous amount of injuries. They also had a sophomore goalie (Hellebuyck) that was struggling with the #1 responsibilities. Knowledgeable fans and the Jets management and coaches knew that this season was the first that they would likely be a legitimate contender, which is why Chevy finally made a splash in UFA went out and picked up Kulikov and Mason, and swapped a #13 pick for a #24 overall to retain core roster players in the expansion draft. Coaches, management and players have all said that after a period of draft and development, this was the year that they were focused on "playoffs or bust". It's not a coincidence that the Jets' big media campaign this season was #RiseTogether.

The notion that the Jets have had a good roster that has just underperformed shows a lack of in-depth knowledge about the development of the roster and the organization over the past several seasons.

I said they've underachieved last few years, not last 10 years. Stop being so over dramatic. The Jets aren't these underdog world beaters. They've had a fantastic roster for the past 2-3 years that consistently failed time and time again to live up to their hype.

The Jets made the playoffs 3 years ago. They haven't taken away any major pieces from the team but instead added a bunch of skilled young players and had managed to underachieve last 2 seasons. The very fact that a team goes from playoffs to back to back top 10 picks is embarrassing. What are you guys, the Oilers?

Stop making excuses.

 

[Saidin]

Oh look, more people think they know what they are talking about but really have no f***in clue.

 

[Romang67]

I said they've underachieved last few years, not last 10 years. Stop being so over dramatic. The Jets aren't these underdog world beaters. They've had a fantastic roster for the past 2-3 years that consistently failed time and time again to live up to their hype.

The Jets made the playoffs 3 years ago. They haven't taken away any major pieces from the team but instead added a bunch of skilled young players and had managed to underachieve last 2 seasons. The very fact that a team goes from playoffs to back to back top 10 picks is embarrassing. What are you guys, the Oilers?

Stop making excuses.

Both those sentences are incorrect. Wanna try again?

If nothing else, you must have noticed that we traded our captain away the season after we made the playoffs, right? Of the 35 players who dressed for the Jets in the 2014/15 season, 22 are no longer on the team. After making it to the playoffs as the second wildcard team, the management (correctly) noted that the veteran core wasn't good enough. So we retooled.

As for how we missed the playoffs two years in a row after making the playoffs, you might want to take a look at which teams were the two most injured teams (relative to cap hits) last season. I know a bunch of people said that injuries were just excuses after last season, but to still be saying it after seeing how the Jets and Lightning are doing now is a bit odd, no?

 

[Whileee]

I said they've underachieved last few years, not last 10 years. Stop being so over dramatic. The Jets aren't these underdog world beaters. They've had a fantastic roster for the past 2-3 years that consistently failed time and time again to live up to their hype.

The Jets made the playoffs 3 years ago. They haven't taken away any major pieces from the team but instead added a bunch of skilled young players and had managed to underachieve last 2 seasons. The very fact that a team goes from playoffs to back to back top 10 picks is embarrassing. What are you guys, the Oilers?

Stop making excuses.

You obviously don't understand the Jets' history very well.

After the 2014/15 season the Jets actually tore down the roster and brought in youth. After the first round sweep by the Ducks, Maurice made it clear that they team needed to get quicker and more skilled. 2014/15 was an aberration, more than anything else (due to uncharacteristically good goaltending by Pavelec who rocked a 0.920, way over his .907 career average).

For 2015/16, gone were.... Kane, Bogosian, Frolik, Tlusty, Stempniak. During the 2015/16 season the Jets traded their first and only captain (Ladd) for futures.

For the 2015/16 and 2016/17 seasons, the Jets completely revamped their roster with young players, retaining only Wheeler, Little, Enstrom and Byfuglien from the original roster. They brought in a ton of their young prospects and overhauled the roster. This was done deliberately because the management and coaches weren't fooled by the 2014/15 playoff season. After the season I was on record in our forums as saying that the Jets needed to continue to overhaul the roster and bring in more young and quick talent and jettison some of the vets. If more teams were savvy enough not to be fooled by the mirage of a fortunate season, they would be better off.

We are seeing the results of that transformation of the roster now.

The history isn't that much different than the recent transformation of the Leafs. They got fooled a bit after their playoff year in 2012/13 and took a bit of time to overhaul the roster, but they are now seeing the results of that process.

 

[nobody]

You obviously don't understand the Jets' history very well.

After the 2014/15 season the Jets actually tore down the roster and brought in youth. After the first round sweep by the Ducks, Maurice made it clear that they team needed to get quicker and more skilled. 2014/15 was an aberration, more than anything else (due to uncharacteristically good goaltending by Pavelec who rocked a 0.920, way over his .907 career average).

For 2015/16, gone were.... Kane, Bogosian, Frolik, Tlusty, Stempniak. During the 2015/16 season the Jets traded their first and only captain (Ladd) for futures.

For the 2015/16 and 2016/17 seasons, the Jets completely revamped their roster with young players, retaining only Wheeler, Little, Enstrom and Byfuglien from the original roster. They brought in a ton of their young prospects and overhauled the roster. This was done deliberately because the management and coaches weren't fooled by the 2014/15 playoff season. After the season I was on record in our forums as saying that the Jets needed to continue to overhaul the roster and bring in more young and quick talent and jettison some of the vets. If more teams were savvy enough not to be fooled by the mirage of a fortunate season, they would be better off.

We are seeing the results of that transformation of the roster now.

The history isn't that much different than the recent transformation of the Leafs. They got fooled a bit after their playoff year in 2012/13 and took a bit of time to overhaul the roster, but they are now seeing the results of that process.

Following players were on the team that made the playoffs 3 years ago and still on team.

Wheeler
Little
Buff
Enstrom
Chef
Perrault
Lowry
Trouba
Myers

Following players were on the team that missed the playoffs 2 years ago and still on team.

Wheeler
Little
Buff
Enstrom
Chef
Perrault
Lowry
Trouba
Myers
Ehlers
Armia
Petan
Dano
Copp

Go home Jets fans. Your team has been much the same. All your current top players have been on the team for the past two seasons. Your two young stud forwards put up 60+ points last year as a rookie/ sophmore and your team was still shit. If you don't call that underachieving then I can't help you.

I've never heard so many excuses out of a fanbase. It's kinda pathetic because you have the best team in that division right now. Why not just admit that the team didn't play up to par for the past few years and are finally living up to expectations. I don't know why there are so many excuses being throw around. As if there was some grandiose process in place for the Jets to suck and revamp into a playoff contending roster.

Be happy with what you have. Stop trying to make it into something bigger than it already is. The Jets are not a top team in the West yet, they're probably middle of the pack in the top 8. Helle is keeping them where they are right now. I don't see this keeping up the whole season so enjoy it while it lasts. We all know how Oilers fans were last season. A hot goalie will make your season and an average one might break it. Luckily for the Jets, their management isn't run by morons like Chirelli.

 

[Whileee]

Following players were on the team that made the playoffs 3 years ago and still on team.

Wheeler
Little
Buff
Enstrom
Chef
Perrault
Lowry
Trouba
Myers

Following players were on the team that missed the playoffs 2 years ago and still on team.

Wheeler
Little
Buff
Enstrom
Chef
Perrault
Lowry
Trouba
Myers
Ehlers
Armia
Petan
Dano
Copp

Go home Jets fans. Your team has been much the same. All your current top players have been on the team for the past two seasons. Your two young stud forwards put up 60+ points last year as a rookie/ sophmore and your team was still ****. If you don't call that underachieving then I can't help you.

I've never heard so many excuses out of a fanbase. It's kinda pathetic because you have the best team in that division right now. Why not just admit that the team didn't play up to par for the past few years and are finally living up to expectations. I don't know why there are so many excuses being throw around. As if there was some grandiose process in place for the Jets to suck and revamp into a playoff contending roster.

Be happy with what you have. Stop trying to make it into something bigger than it already is. The Jets are not a top team in the West yet, they're probably middle of the pack in the top 8. Helle is keeping them where they are right now. I don't see this keeping up the whole season so enjoy it while it lasts. We all know how Oilers fans were last season. A hot goalie will make your season and an average one might break it. Luckily for the Jets, their management isn't run by morons like Chirelli.

You clearly don't understand the notion of development. A big portion of the players have been introduced or just hit their stride over the past 2-3 seasons, including most of the players you cite above (in your second list). Scheifele's break-out season was last year. Lowry, Ehlers, Armia, Copp, Hellebuyck, Connor, etc. are just hitting their stride now. You don't even mention Morrissey, who is now a top-pairing young D.

If you really don't think the Jets' roster has been transformed over the past few seasons through turnover and development, you might be one of the few folks that don't get it.

The rest of your post is just subjective pap with no evidentiary basis, which weakens your argument by revealing your biases.

 

[authentic]

Marner and Nylander really don't know how to score goals this year so Ehlers is the correct choice.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Do you even understand anything about the Jets roster and history?

Yes, I do. The other WHA owners each paid the Jets $ 100,000 so the Jets could afford sign Bobby Hull away from the Chicago Black Hawks. Any else happen last 45 years?
But looking at the Jets roster and their prospects, and even their cap....Jets are in an great situation, now in the future.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Ehlers with his 18th and 19th goals tonight. Still out goal scoring both Nylander and Marner combined. Perhaps this poll is not that crazy as first thought or as long as it lasts.

 

[MardyBum]

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Elite shot!

 

[winnipegger]

quality thread would read again

 

[Gurilla]

Can we wedge my boy Kyle Connor in here? The way I see it is

Ehlers

Connor
Marner

Nylander

 

[Whileee]

Can we wedge my boy Kyle Connor in here? The way I see it is

Ehlers

Connor
Marner

Nylander

Connor is a beauty.

Ehlers + Connor = 34 goals

Nylander + Marner = 14 goals

Here's another proposition...

Ehlers and Connor double the goal production of Nylander and Marner this season.

 

[jetsforever]

Connor is a beauty.

Ehlers + Connor = 34 goals

Nylander + Marner = 14 goals

Here's another proposition...

Ehlers and Connor double the goal production of Nylander and Marner this season.

Don't be ridiculous, I thought we decided last season that Nylander > Ehlers and Marner >>> Connor

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Ehlers is the best player right now no questions. I still think Nylander and Marner will end up with more goals.

Thread is not outlandish seeing as a bird in the hand is better then two in the bush. Both Marner and Nylander experiencing slight sophomore slumps this season, but do see improvements.

 

[Raging Bull]

Marners goal scoring really took off the second half of the year.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Ehlers is the best player right now no questions. I still think Nylander and Marner will end up with more goals.

Thread is not outlandish seeing as a bird in the hand is better then two in the bush. Both Marner and Nylander experiencing slight sophomore slumps this season, but do see improvements.

Ehlers has done well this season, and has scored more goals, but once again......much to all the non-Leaf fan's chagrin.......Marner and Nylander both win. Marner with 69 points and Nylander with 59, t0 Ehler's 58. That's not "Leaf fans being delusional". That's just a fact.

Ehlers looks to have regressed slightly, while Marner improved over last year, and Nylander should equal last year's output.

 

[Raging Bull]

Ehlers is the best goal scorer of the three, but as the season went on the cream rose to the top.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

So much cringe worthy comments in here

 

[BM14]

Ehlers is the best goal scorer of the three, but as the season went on the cream rose to the top.