Confirmed with Link: [EDM/NJD] Maroon for 2019 3rd Round Pick and JD Dudek

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

If we're talking about three years of results then we're also taking into account that staggering improvement last season.

I know people like to skim the Chiarelli pressers and magnify his foibles--god bless the internet generation--but he's actually correct that the margins have become very small in this league. In the salary cap era there just aren't the regular season powerhouses there used to be. So when you speak of becoming 'a Calgary or Colorado' it doesn't compute. Get your team into the playoffs. The 'best team' on paper doesn't always win the Stanley Cup. In terms of sustained success, you have to have a team that buys into a system that is successful. To do that you have to have the right players to set the example. This league isn't 'load-up-on-talent-and-shoot-the-lights-out' anymore.

The staggering improvements from last season were largely due to breakout seasons from McDavid, Draisaitl, and Klefbom. None of whom were acquired by Chiarelli. The only player he acquired that was key to last season's success Talbot, was a player that Sather literally gave him a discount for as a favour to his former team. If Glen wanted to take Chia to the cleaners, he would've.

Guess what? We don't have a team that buys into our system. Heck we don't even have a system on the PP and PK. Players have tuned out McLellan and co and Chiarelli hired them. That's partially on Chiarelli. We don't have the right players to set examples (see Milan Lucic's endless series of temper tantrums while having an A pinned to his chest) and Chiarelli gave him 6 million for 7 years. That's mostly on Chiarelli. The league isn't "load up on talent and shoot the lights out", but we don't have the infrastructure for a successful team. Except unlike 2 years ago when we at least had the talent and needed to fill in the holes, we don't even have the talent nor the assets to fill those holes. That's entirely on Chiarelli.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Again with Barzal....

A first and a second for Griffin Reinhart. More or less the same price Calgary paid for Hamilton.

 

[LTIR]

A first and a second for Griffin Reinhart. More or less the same price Calgary paid for Hamilton.

more or less what Chia paid for Talbot, lot less than what he paid for Maroon.

you win some you lose some...

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Barzal wasn't ours. The pick is the trade you're referring to.

No one's popping champagne, but I'm not going to lose my **** over a UFA to be turning out not to have the value I hoped he would have.

The trade was always for Barzal and only Barzal and no mental gymnastics are going to change that. Sure we might've taken Eriksson-Ek if we had the pick, but Garth Snow made that offer with only one player in mind and would not do a trade under any other circumstance (and the fact that we had Eriksson-Ek rated ahead of Barzal is an indictment against our management and scouting staff, it should never be used to defend Chiarelli). The trade was consummated under the knowledge that Griffin Reinhart would be an Edmonton Oiler and Mat Barzal would be a New York Islander and that the Islanders would also receive 33 overall. The trade was not for Connor, Chabot, Svechnikov, Eriksson-Ek, White, Samsonov, Boeser, Konecny, nor Lebron James. The trade was for Barzal and Barzal alone and both GMs were aware of that.

 

[Faelko]

A first and a second for Griffin Reinhart. More or less the same price Calgary paid for Hamilton.

Oh I’m not defending that trade, it’s truly awful but it’s annoying as f*** when people autoplug Barzal’s name in there to further their arguement...like isn’t the 1st and 2nd bad enough? Do we really need to try and make it look worse?

 

[TheNumber4]

The staggering improvements from last season were largely due to breakout seasons from McDavid, Draisaitl, and Klefbom. None of whom were acquired by Chiarelli. The only player he acquired that was key to last season's success Talbot, was a player that Sather literally gave him a discount for as a favour to his former team. If Glen wanted to take Chia to the cleaners, he would've.

Guess what? We don't have a team that buys into our system. Heck we don't even have a system on the PP and PK. Players have tuned out McLellan and co and Chiarelli hired them. That's partially on Chiarelli. We don't have the right players to set examples (see Milan Lucic's endless series of temper tantrums while having an A pinned to his chest) and Chiarelli gave him 6 million for 7 years. That's mostly on Chiarelli. The league isn't "load up on talent and shoot the lights out", but we don't have the infrastructure for a successful team. Except unlike 2 years ago when we at least had the talent and needed to fill in the holes, we don't even have the talent nor the assets to fill those holes. That's entirely on Chiarelli.

We just going to ignore Larsson's stabilizing impact on our entire D-Corp last year? How I see it is last year was probably the ONLY year in the last decade+ that we've had a complete NHL defence, including this year. Sekera goes down this year and the whole thing falls apart like it did in the decade of darkness.

 

[North]

The trade was always for Barzal and only Barzal and no mental gymnastics are going to change that. Sure we might've taken Eriksson-Ek if we had the pick, but Garth Snow made that offer with only one player in mind and would not do a trade under any other circumstance (and the fact that we had Eriksson-Ek rated ahead of Barzal is an indictment against our management and scouting staff, it should never be used to defend Chiarelli). The trade was consummated under the knowledge that Griffin Reinhart would be an Edmonton Oiler and Mat Barzal would be a New York Islander and that the Islanders would also receive 33 overall. The trade was not for Connor, Chabot, Svechnikov, Eriksson-Ek, White, Samsonov, Boeser, Konecny, nor Lebron James. The trade was for Barzal and Barzal alone and both GMs were aware of that.

The only gymnastics are yours. Not going to debate your continued nonsense.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Oh I’m not defending that trade, it’s truly awful but it’s annoying as **** when people autoplug Barzal’s name in there to further their arguement...like isn’t the 1st and 2nd bad enough? Do we really need to try and make it look worse?

Garth Snow and Peter Chiarelli auto-plugged Barzal's name into that trade. Why shouldn't we?

The only gymnastics are yours. Not going debate your continued nonsense.

Then why don't you show me a source that says that the trade wasn't for Barzal and Barzal alone? And that Snow just wanted a generic 1st rounder?

 

[TheNumber4]

The trade was always for Barzal and only Barzal and no mental gymnastics are going to change that. Sure we might've taken Eriksson-Ek if we had the pick, but Garth Snow made that offer with only one player in mind and would not do a trade under any other circumstance (and the fact that we had Eriksson-Ek rated ahead of Barzal is an indictment against our management and scouting staff, it should never be used to defend Chiarelli). The trade was consummated under the knowledge that Griffin Reinhart would be an Edmonton Oiler and Mat Barzal would be a New York Islander and that the Islanders would also receive 33 overall. The trade was not for Connor, Chabot, Svechnikov, Eriksson-Ek, White, Samsonov, Boeser, Konecny, nor Lebron James. The trade was for Barzal and Barzal alone and both GMs were aware of that.

Staple is a tool of Islanders/Snow propaganda. Wouldn't put much faith in anything he says.

 

[Faelko]

The trade was always for Barzal and only Barzal and no mental gymnastics are going to change that. Sure we might've taken Eriksson-Ek if we had the pick, but Garth Snow made that offer with only one player in mind and would not do a trade under any other circumstance (and the fact that we had Eriksson-Ek rated ahead of Barzal is an indictment against our management and scouting staff, it should never be used to defend Chiarelli). The trade was consummated under the knowledge that Griffin Reinhart would be an Edmonton Oiler and Mat Barzal would be a New York Islander and that the Islanders would also receive 33 overall. The trade was not for Connor, Chabot, Svechnikov, Eriksson-Ek, White, Samsonov, Boeser, Konecny, nor Lebron James. The trade was for Barzal and Barzal alone and both GMs were aware of that.

You can twist it anyway you want, Barzal was never an Oiler...

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Staple is a tool of Islanders/Snow propaganda. Wouldn't put much faith in anything he says.

So we're just gonna play the denial game? We're going to just label Staple a liar when the trade was announced in the minutes leading up to the Oilers going up to the podium during the 2015 draft?

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

You can twist it anyway you want, Barzal was never an Oiler...

Never said he was. I said that the GMs knew which player the Islanders would be receiving alongside 33 overall in return for Griffin Reinhart.

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

I dont read it that way at all.

I read it more like Chia was trying to get a solid return for Maroon, and nobody would bite on his ask. So it's more like Shero feeling fortunate he got Maroon for a 3rd.

That's more how I read it as well. Chia wanted more than Shero was willing to give, didn't get it, said yes to Shero at the last minute... the price came down.

The Chia hate is strong in this forum.

 

[Faelko]

Garth Snow and Peter Chiarelli auto-plugged Barzal's name into that trade. Why shouldn't we?

Then why don't you show me a source that says that the trade wasn't for Barzal and Barzal alone? And that Snow just wanted a generic 1st rounder?

Do you suppose Pitt fans piss and moan about that pick as much as we do? Long story short, Oilers never had Barzal, can’t trade a player you never had. You can go back and do this same exercise 1000x on multitudes of traded picks...I’ll even give you the first one, Oilers traded Lucic for Samsonov...

 

[Faelko]

Never said he was. I said that the GMs knew which player the Islanders would be receiving alongside 33 overall in return for Griffin Reinhart.

Except you keep saying the Oilers traded him, that’s implying he was an Oiler....

 

[TheNumber4]

So we're just gonna play the denial game? We're going to just label Staple a liar when the trade was announced in the minutes leading up to the Oilers going up to the podium during the 2015 draft?

Denial of what exactly? Everyone knows the Reinhart trade was bad and no ones disputing that. Whether Barzal was there or not and whether Snow knew how great Barzal would be is irrelevant. The picks are enough to deem that a bad trade for the Oilers, who I blame on Chia and Green.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Except you keep saying the Oilers traded him, that’s implying he was an Oiler....

He wasn't but the fact the Oilers weren't going to draft him anyway is a further indictment on the club.

 

[North]

Do you suppose Pitt fans piss and moan about that pick as much as we do? Long story short, Oilers never had Barzal, can’t trade a player you never had. You can go back and do this same exercise 1000x on multitudes of traded picks...I’ll even give you the first one, Oilers traded Lucic for Samsonov...

Don't try to bring logic into this thread. It's not appreciated.

 

[Faelko]

He wasn't but the fact the Oilers weren't going to draft him anyway is a further indictment on the club.

No arguement there, I’m not defending the deal or Chiarelli but let’s keep the facts straight at least.

 

[Faelko]

Don't try to bring logic into this thread. It's not appreciated.

My bad, I’ll quit now....

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Do you suppose Pitt fans piss and moan about that pick as much as we do? Long story short, Oilers never had Barzal, can’t trade a player you never had. You can go back and do this same exercise 1000x on multitudes of traded picks...I’ll even give you the first one, Oilers traded Lucic for Samsonov...

Pittsburgh traded that pick for Perron who was eventually parlayed into Hagelin who was a huge contributor to 2 cups. Why would they complain. Pittsburgh also didn't trade the pick the minutes leading up to the pick being made when both GMs involved in the trade knew which player would be going to the team that went up to the podium. There's a reason why I call it the Barzal+33 trade and not Barzal+Beauviller or Barzal+Stephens. The GMs didn't know which player the 33rd overall would be at the time of the Reinhart trade. You're kidding yourself if you think they didn't know who was getting picked when the trade is made minutes before the Oilers were due to go to the podium. Also I have never once called the Samsonov trade the Lucic trade, and in fact I've actually defended that trade on multiple occasions due to what Samsonov did for us in 06, why are you even bringing that up?

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Denial of what exactly? Everyone knows the Reinhart trade was bad and no ones disputing that. Whether Barzal was there or not and whether Snow knew how great Barzal would be is irrelevant. The picks are enough to deem that a bad trade for the Oilers, who I blame on Chia and Green.

Read the post I quoted. Denial that Arthur Staple was telling the truth in that instance.

 

[TheNumber4]

Pittsburgh traded that pick for Perron who was eventually parlayed into Hagelin who was a huge contributor to 2 cups. Why would they complain. Pittsburgh also didn't trade the pick the minutes leading up to the pick being made when both GMs involved in the trade knew which player would be going to the team that went up to the podium. There's a reason why I call it the Barzal+33 trade and not Barzal+Beauviller or Barzal+Stephens. The GMs didn't know which player the 33rd overall would be at the time of the Reinhart trade. You're kidding yourself if you think they didn't know who was getting picked when the trade is made minutes before the Oilers were due to go to the podium. Also I have never once called the Samsonov trade the Lucic trade, and in fact I've actually defended that trade on multiple occasions due to what Samsonov did for us in 06, why are you even bringing that up?

The trade was 16+33 for Reinhart. That's a loss. Maybe Snow liked Barzal and ONLY Barzal being available would seal the deal. If that's the case, Snow's evaluation of Reinhart's value was just as bad as Green's. Either way, all you need to know is 16+33. Draft picks in that range could either work out or not. Other teams passed on Barzal for lesser players before he got to 16 too.

 

[belair]

The staggering improvements from last season were largely due to breakout seasons from McDavid, Draisaitl, and Klefbom. None of whom were acquired by Chiarelli. The only player he acquired that was key to last season's success Talbot, was a player that Sather literally gave him a discount for as a favour to his former team. If Glen wanted to take Chia to the cleaners, he would've.

Guess what? We don't have a team that buys into our system. Heck we don't even have a system on the PP and PK. Players have tuned out McLellan and co and Chiarelli hired them. That's partially on Chiarelli. We don't have the right players to set examples (see Milan Lucic's endless series of temper tantrums while having an A pinned to his chest) and Chiarelli gave him 6 million for 7 years. That's mostly on Chiarelli. The league isn't "load up on talent and shoot the lights out", but we don't have the infrastructure for a successful team. Except unlike 2 years ago when we at least had the talent and needed to fill in the holes, we don't even have the talent nor the assets to fill those holes. That's entirely on Chiarelli.

Again, entirely based on personal opinion. Ignoring the impact that Larsson had on Klefbom's breakout is also not surprising. This is exactly what @Asiaoil is talking about with his posts. A group of posters circle-jerking about perceived valuations and revisionist history based on zero facts to support the same meandering argument. It's a pissing contest and a complete waste of time.

The blanket statement about 'not having the infrastructure' to build a successful team is absolute garbage. The team has already shown the ability to execute. What are our needs now? 'Fast' wingers and a puck-moving defenseman. Yeah--not exactly groundbreaking when you look at those pieces logically.

 

[TheNumber4]

Read the post I quoted. Denial that Arthur Staple was telling the truth in that instance.

Don't believe a word he says. But his words are irrelevant. Again, all we need to know is 16+33 for Reinhart was a bad trade. Barzal's availability is irrelevant. Your going on some sort of crusade to say how bad that trade is, it's like trying to convince people water is wet. Everyone knows already just based on 16+33. Why are you rambling on about Barzal.