Series Talk: ECQ: Boston Bruins (2-0) Toronto Maple Leafs. Well. We can Win at Home. We Have to.

[francis246]

Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kappy all played pretty well in the playoffs last year as rookies...

Yes they did. They are also first rounders and established core guys. So ofc they are going to get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

Smoke these dirty f***s tomorrow.

 

[ToMaLe]

Yes they did. They are also first rounders and established core guys. So ofc they are going to get the benefit of the doubt.

so only first round rookies get to play, got it! so I guess you would have Freddie Gauthier in over Johnsson because he is a first rounder? but Dermott is only a second rounder, he was not a core player until injuries got him in the lineup, he turned out pretty good. so maybe its if they can help win games instead of what round they were selected?

 

[Daisy Jane]

You are right it isn't funny. Nothing about this is funny (see I can randomly bold and underline things too).

good for you bolding and underling is fun, i'm glad you can do it.

Can't put this all on Komarov. The problem is you and others saying if it isn't all on Komarov then it has nothing to do with him

nope. I didn't say that. didn't even infer it. I have said, and I've said. constantly, if it were up to me Komarov wouldn't even be on the team. what i said regarding this game was that our issues last night wasn't on Komarov. We lost because Matthews, Kadri, Nylander, Marleau, Bozak, JVR, Brown, Rielly, Hainsey, Jake, Zaitzev, Polak, - basically everyone but Hyman and Marner to an extent (Andersen until the 4th goal) sucked. putting all of the blame on Komarov makes no sense to me. Putting all the blame on Babcock makes no sense to me. The team sucked including Komarov. how difficult is it to say "the team didn't do well, they have to be better?" Arguably very, because very few people are saying it.

But going by everyone else, you get the sense that if Komarov wasn't on the team, yesterday's performance would have been better is erroneous. because it wouldn't have. If people want to focus on one player making the mistake that's fine, when it's warranted. or if they want to focus on babcock's poor decisions (which is warranted because I personally wouldn't put Komarov on the 1st line though i see the ideology. I don't agree with it, but I see it). No one as far as I've seen talked about how anyone else could play better. just that Komarov sucks (which i agree with),shouldn't be on the team (which i've said when we re-signed him to his deal), and implying things would have been fine last night had he not been on the roster (which no, because the whole team sucked).

so i'll be clear.
overall as a team, i think whole heartedly we would be better without Komarov. (let that never be lost in translation).

last night's game and the result was not Komarov's fault, or Babcock's usage of Komarov the way a lot of people are making it sound. it was a collective team poopfest, starting with Babcock, the entire team, down to the goaltending with the exception of Hyman, Marner, and 2 periods of Andersen. putting all the focus on Komarov, is not fair, nor right.

 

[IBeL34f]

I apologise for not putting it in better context. I wasn't call you "sheep". I was calling our entire fanbase in general "sheep" for consistently believing everything that comes out of his mouth just because of who he is. Not everything he says and does is right, just because he's been around for so long. There are other ways and methods, and he must adapt. What will you do when one of his toy's gets taken away for next year and he has to adjust? Will you then change your view to agree with whatever Babcock says then? Don't make this personal, I was never trying to make it personal with you.

I don't hate Babcock. I am a huge fan of his. He is a great coach, but this love he has of consistently playing the grinder has got to change. He is not equipped with those players. When that happens and they are equipped with grinders who have skill (Komo, Martin, etc are NOT that) then it's different. I am all for putting a bruising guy like Simmonds on Matthews' wing. Would be a sight to see, but we don't have players in that mold at the moment on the big club, maybe in a few years (Grundstrom, etc). Just tired of being the fan who always "gives the other team credit". Enough already. As Babcock says "We can be better. Let's be better."

Here is the tweet:



Anyway, it's hard to get on Babcock for the game 1 effort. That's on the team. Hope for MUCH better in game 2.

What will I do when his "toys" are taken away? Be happy they were replaced with better players, which I've been patiently waiting for for years. I've mentioned multiple times over the past year that I expect our lineup to be "optimized" for maximum offensive output when every single player works as hard as Zach Hyman does - I don't think we're necessarily there yet (we're still sheltering guys like Bozak and JVR because they're not trusted against dangerous opposition) and neither does Babcock seem to.
Would I like to see us optimizing our lineup now that we're in the Playoffs and the games are all important? Sure, but that optimization means different things to different people, and understanding Babcock's reasoning on the decision, and allowing it to play out without bitching about it, is not the same thing as simply deferring to him because he's an authority figure.
Would I like to see Leo off of the Powerplay? 100%, get him outta there.
Would I like to see Johnsson in the lineup should Leo not be up to the task? Yes, and I have said as much, even before the series started.

No one's asking you to give all the credit to the Bruins - They're a great team, yeah, but we got in our own way last night and started getting into a game that Boston wanted us to play, rather than our own.

He's doing the opposite of adapting. The nhl is obviously moving towards speed and skill reigning supreme. We lost because we didn't have enough speed and skill. And his only solution is to reward our worst player because he's "competitive". He's doubling down on his old school methods that haven't been worthwhile in years

This is as ridiculous now as it was in November/December when people suddenly forgot the entire 2016/17 season and started thinking we were implementing a pure dump-and-chase defensive system.

 

[CelticDruid]

Lot of negative nancies on this board-anyone would think that we have already lost the series.The same crowd that complains all year round with their rants on Babcock, Andersen etc.When logical thinking is replaced with emotive reasoning you get lost in the pile of doo that follows. Its like coming to a forum made up of ten year olds.

 

[Mats13]

You said there was "no justifiable reason"and I explained to you that every thing he would do would be for a reason.
The hissy fit was later when you went on about opinions, I laughed.

It doens't matter as long as you learned something.....I know I did.

I learned that my ignore list needs expanding.

 

[MattySnipes]

@IBeL34f we'll see how they do tomorrow. hopefully his changes play out like he's planned, God knows we need this split for any chance to go forward. it's just sad to see that it took a player to potentially get suspended to be able to see some skill and speed be inserted. Every game Johnsson has played this year, Babcock has been left speechless - and everyone knows how much he likes to talk.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

@IBeL34f we'll see how they do tomorrow. hopefully his changes play out like he's planned, God knows we need this split for any chance to go forward. it's just sad to see that it took a player to potentially get suspended to be able to see some skill and speed be inserted. Every game Johnsson has played this year, Babcock has been left speechless - and everyone knows how much he likes to talk.

i'm worried that any benefit we get from our 4th line is going to still be outweighed by the negatives of having Komarov on the top line

 

[ACC1224]

I learned that my ignore list needs expanding.

That's the spirit.

 

[James Duthie]

We need to win tomorrow, plain and simple. Can't be playing Boston's game, we were 7-1 against them in the past two years for a reason, Ottawa beat them as well, why can't we? Enough excuses.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Yes, he created the environment that sees the ire directed at himself - However, that doesn't change the fact that the ire itself is stupid. Babcock's always been aware of how crazy our fans and media get - Just because he knows that ****'s gonna be flung doesn't mean it should be flung. Hell, you yourself talk about how impressive our season has been, and are complaining about how I referred to the team as an underdog, and yet you still believe the head coach of that team is deserving of all this ire.

And I've never heard that Babcock quote about being underdogs, so I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't call me a sheep just because my understanding of things happens to line up with that of Babcock.

Are we an awesome team? Definitely, and I've been acknowledging for years now that we're way better than given credit for. Are we playing an experienced team that has proven they can be our superior at this point in time? Definitely.

I absolutely hate this narrative that people who agree with Babcock are incapable of thinking for themselves. It's so lazy. Do better.

I think what some people object to is the condescending tone, bordering on arrogance of the Babcock supporters. He can do no wrong in their eyes and we shouldn't dare criticize the "great coach" cause who are we to criticize him, etc . It's not black and white. Babcock has done some good things. But the Babcock "sheep" rarely criticize him or more specifically admit that last night he did a terrible job of coaching (not going to go through his litany of mistakes again).

 

[GodEmperor]

Lot of negative nancies on this board-anyone would think that we have already lost the series.The same crowd that complains all year round with their rants on Babcock, Andersen etc.When logical thinking is replaced with emotive reasoning you get lost in the pile of doo that follows. Its like coming to a forum made up of ten year olds.

What's the logical argument for Komarov over Andre?

 

[frizzer1]

Considering the fact that Komarov and Hyman are going to play big minutes for Babcock and nothing will change that, I actually don't mind Komo being there.....he has more skill than hyman, or perhaps I should say he is less unskilled.....and maybe can make a play or two.
Hyman will probably neuter Marner but who knows? He ( Marner) has made 4th line players dangerous before and maybe he can do it for Hyman.

 

[IBeL34f]

@IBeL34f we'll see how they do tomorrow. hopefully his changes play out like he's planned, God knows we need this split for any chance to go forward. it's just sad to see that it took a player to potentially get suspended to be able to see some skill and speed be inserted. Every game Johnsson has played this year, Babcock has been left speechless.

That was the weirdest thing for me, with regards to Johnsson coming out of the lineup - Babs seems to LOVE him!

He was getting PP time with the Matthews unit (will be again tomorrow, by the looks of things) as well as some PK time, and was also moved up to the Matthews/Nylander unit when Hyman got a Fighting major.

I think your point about it taking a potential suspension to be able to get some speed and skill in the lineup is over the top, though. We have tons and tons of speed and skill on the team, regardless of whether or not Komarov is on it - Injecting more can be cool, sure, but there's no need to downplay the speed and skill Babcock already uses and lauds on a consistent basis.

There's always 'that one move' that fans want to see made that will change all of our fortunes - First it was Hyman on the top line, then he turned out to be fine; then it was the Kadri/Leo line when Kadri was slumping; then it was the dump-and-chase defensive system thing; now it's this Leo/Johnsson thing... Every single time, a group of fans latches onto this one thing that has to make or break our season/potential, and it's always way overblown.

Like Daisy's said, if anyone thinks Johnsson over Leo would've been the difference between an L and a W last night is out to lunch. As you've mentioned, the whole team (with one or two exceptions) was bad and needs to be way better if we want to beat a very, very good Bruins squad.

 

[IBeL34f]

I think what some people object to is the condescending tone, bordering on arrogance of the Babcock supporters. He can do no wrong in their eyes and we shouldn't dare criticize the "great coach" cause who are we to criticize him, etc . It's not black and white. Babcock has done some good things. But the Babcock "sheep" rarely criticize him or more specifically admit that last night he did a terrible job of coaching (not going to go through his litany of mistakes again).

You're upset about a condescending tone, but then refer to "Babcock supporters" as "sheep" - I want you to think about that for a while.

 

[mapleleafs34]

Now that Leo is with Auston, I bet they will see 20+ minutes of ice-time tomorrow.

 

[GodEmperor]

Wow, hopefully we get some competitive players this offseason if Komarov is first in line for the Matthews Nylander line

What a joke

Fire this f***ing joke.

I'm not even a big fan of Hyman on the line, but he was great last night and has gotten better this year.

Babcock is starting to rival Hakstol in his stupidity, it's funny how people on here ignore the fact that towards the end of his Red Wings tenure, Wings fans had come to universally loathe him....I wonder why that is???

Babcock still thinks this is the 90s, oh well I guess all of us don't have to worry about postponing any May or June plans because this team will be out in the first round.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Considering the fact that Komarov and Hyman are going to play big minutes for Babcock and nothing will change that, I actually don't mind Komo being there.....he has more skill than hyman, or perhaps I should say he is less unskilled.....and maybe can make a play or two.
Hyman will probably neuter Marner but who knows? He ( Marner) has made 4th line players dangerous before and maybe he can do it for Hyman.

Komarov doesn't even come close to Hyman

 

[Just Rude]

It's one game, albeit a bit of a beatdown. If Bruins fans thinks that is the best Leaf team they will see in this series, let them keep thinking that.

Leafs just need to regroup, take a deep breath and come out and play the way we all know they can. Although, I must confess, Kadri's selfish act of stupidity last night puts means our odds of winning this series have just taken a big hit. Losing our 2C has a trickle-down effect through the entire lineup.

Komorov to the top line? Meh. Not sure I know why, but obviously Babcock has a reason. Maybe he figured the entire line was invisible vs. Bergeron (minus Hyman's goal, but Hyman rarely moves the needle anyway), so we not try to mix things up? <shrug>

 

[francis246]

so only first round rookies get to play, got it! so I guess you would have Freddie Gauthier in over Johnsson because he is a first rounder? but Dermott is only a second rounder, he was not a core player until injuries got him in the lineup, he turned out pretty good. so maybe its if they can help win games instead of what round they were selected?

Stop twisting my words. These guys were already established as first round guys who were going to come in and be core guys. Also last year there was no competition for spots. This year there is. The situation is completely different. Also have you seen our defense? Of course dermott is going to draw in.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Komarov promoted to the first line lol...is Babcock for real right now? If anything load up the line with marner like any sane coach would. A sweep is looking like a real possibility.....

If we are swept, you knowwww Babcock supporters are not going to in any way blame Babcock. It'll be the players, the media, the fans, the equipment guy, the popcorn vendor...anyone, but not Babcock.

 

[frizzer1]

So here's my problem with these changes..
All year long babcock had Hyman with Matthews.....they never tried anyone else, never practiced with anyone else ( to my knowledge) and so they don't know each other's tendencies ....Same for Hyman with Marner..
If he had tried different combos during the season ( like we were begging for) ,then I could understand it..
And yet after one game he tries combos he's never used before?
To me, this smacks of desperation..

 

[Kiwi]

Idk if he can.. but that fourth line looks better as AJ - Plek - Kap. And we don't want to break up that Bozak line. Maybe Leivo could have drew in but idk, there isn't a clear cut right answer

Leivo is never going to happen, I've given up on tilting at that particular windmill

I don't think what the 4th line does is the major in this i think the aim should be to improve the Matthews line and I wonder if someone talented and fast may make them better able to face Bergeron

Just Defending that line doesn't really work so my idea is get a fast forechecker and try to pressure the Boston D before they get the puck to the forwards and try to play keep away with the puck instead

 

[CabanaBoy5]

You're upset about a condescending tone, but then refer to "Babcock supporters" as "sheep" - I want you to think about that for a while.

I was using their term, not mine....note the quotation marks. Think about that. I call them "supporters or apologists".