Dustin Byfuglien - Part III

[citizenmundane]

Based on his playoff performance alone, I'd say dump him. Based on his regular season play - I'm not so sure. But I'd still lean toward making a deal if there's a decent return to be had.

 

[surixon]

I did say it was hypothetical. However, I do not think it's a stretch to think Buff has a couple of solid seasons left in him.

I agree that he likely has some good years left in him. My point was more along the lines that he will be in the drivers seat during these negotiations and will likely be able to get most of what he wants ($ and term) and undoubtedly full control of where he gets moved to if it comes to that in the future. All of which could seriously handcuff the Jets from following through with your plan.

 

[jetkarma*]

I agree that he likely has some good years left in him. My point was more along the lines that he will be in the drivers seat during these negotiations and will likely be able to get most of what he wants ($ and term) and undoubtedly full control of where he gets moved to if it comes to that in the future. All of which could seriously handcuff the Jets from following through with your plan.

I think the Jets balance term with the ability to move players , I doubt he would get anywhere near a full NTC .

 

[surixon]

I think the Jets balance term with the ability to move players , I doubt he would get anywhere near a full NTC .

Enstrom got a 5 year contract with a NMC. I think Buff asks for one himself and is in the position to dictate one imo. But hey if Chevy can somehow pull of a contract without one included I'd 100% all for it.

 

[KingBogo]

I am torn on trading or resigning Buff.

He will command big money big term, and the value will not be there at the end of his next contract. With that said, resigning him does not prevent us from trading him over the next couple of seasons, if we see signs of regression.

There are teams that will be offering him big deals next off season, if he has a solid season, and makes it to free agency. These teams may likely be interested down the road, so I don't believe we would necessarily be stuck with a bad contact.

Sign him, get 2 or 3 of the best years of him from that contract, then look to move him when the return is still decent.

So I ask:

Lets hypothetically say that today we could get back in a Buff deal a first round pick, a second round pick, a high end prospect and a top 6 foward

And

After signing Buff to a big deal, 2 seasons in, and lets say Buff had 2 solid seasons but dipped slightly in stats in the 2nd year.
At that point we could get a 1st round pick and a top 6 forward.

Is having Buff for 2 solid years of service worth a second round pick and a solid prospect?

Its very hypothetical, but that is the just of it.

Bo, if Chevy gets that for a player 1 year from UFA status he is a absolute genius and should automatically win next season's GM of the year award.

 

[TheRocketFlash]

Big Buff and #25 overall to EDM for 1st overall?

 

[jetkarma*]

Enstrom got a 5 year contract with a NMC. I think Buff asks for one himself and is in the position to dictate one imo. But hey if Chevy can somehow pull of a contract without one included I'd 100% all for it.

Different situation though , may matter , may not .

 

[jetkarma*]

Big Buff and #25 overall to EDM for 1st overall?

OK , lol .... what's the catch ?

 

[KingBogo]

Big Buff and #25 overall to EDM for 1st overall?

Heck, I think Chevy might even be willing to sweeten that a bit

 

[Jetabre]

Big Buff and #25 overall to EDM for 1st overall?

Is that you Chiarelli? Why yes us Winnipeg fans would be fine with that, go ahead and tell Chevy and thanks for asking us beforehand for our opinion.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

OK , lol .... what's the catch ?

Oilers are including MacTavish and Lowe in the package.

 

[Bob E]

Oilers are including MacTavish and Lowe in the package.

No deal. Wait wut?

 

[Sunstroke]

draft and develop

I'm allowed to dislike a the way a player plays. I don't have to stick with the crowd and just follow the party line.

I don't like things that Byfuglien does. I have explained it to death. You don't have to agree with me but it's not just some baseless opinion I've formed, I have real, tangible reasons for not liking his play. Do I HATE BUFF?? Don't be ridiculous. I don't know him. He actually seems like a pretty great guy, who likes to have fun. I'd probably get along with him very well.

Aside from all that do I want a 30 year old, 260 lb guy with previous knee problems and problems with conditioning and weight signing a long term, 50MM deal with my hockey team?

I think of the two sides, I am actually being the logical one, and people who want that deal are listening to their heart. A deal like that does not make sense for the Jets, in their financial structure OR where we are as a hockey team.

I don't want to watch a 33 year old Byfuglien lumber around the ice for 7MM.

I agree with Jet completely.....if we are a draft and develop team its the players like Trouba that should get big dollars and term not Buff.

Buff should be traded and at the draft...but we know Chevy...he will probably procrastinate his as into a corner and get nothing for Buff like Frolik ( intentionally exaggerating here...)

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Bo, if Chevy gets that for a player 1 year from UFA status he is a absolute genius and should automatically win next season's GM of the year award.

Extremely hypothetical scenario.

I had to make the first package big enough so when I subtracted from the second package there was still assets left.

Guess what I am trying to show if we did sign Buff and used him for 2 years of that contract, then trade him, would difference in return from today to then, be worth 2 more years of Buff's services.

 

[sully1410]

I'm allowed to dislike a the way a player plays. I don't have to stick with the crowd and just follow the party line.

I don't like things that Byfuglien does. I have explained it to death. You don't have to agree with me but it's not just some baseless opinion I've formed, I have real, tangible reasons for not liking his play. Do I HATE BUFF?? Don't be ridiculous. I don't know him. He actually seems like a pretty great guy, who likes to have fun. I'd probably get along with him very well.

Aside from all that do I want a 30 year old, 260 lb guy with previous knee problems and problems with conditioning and weight signing a long term, 50MM deal with my hockey team?

I think of the two sides, I am actually being the logical one, and people who want that deal are listening to their heart. A deal like that does not make sense for the Jets, in their financial structure OR where we are as a hockey team.

I don't want to watch a 33 year old Byfuglien lumber around the ice for 7MM.

Yes because that's what I meant. You hate him as person.

I'm not sure exactly what your basing this on, getting rid of Buff. Is he getting up there? Yes. But I hardly think that the Jets are so fool hardy that they would sign him to an eight year contract when his best before date is quickly approaching.

I love you mention that he is 260lbs, but leave out the fact that he is 6'5". He's a big dude, but let's leave out the fat talk alright? It really has no place here and honestly I thought you knew better then that.

And what things don't you like? His play during the playoffs....when he was injured? But no one heard you.complain during the regular season when he out the entire team on his back and practically carried them to a playoff berth when our entire D was out. Not to mention his all star game berth.

Or maybe you don't like that he has bad games...when pretty much every single player has stretches of those...so yea


And what do you.mean lumber around the ice? He's actually pretty fast, and its not like players turn into pumpkins after the age of thirty. Plenty of defensemen over the years have stayed very effective late into life. Lidstrom, Pronger, Streit, Niedermeyer, Chelios, Boyle etc.)

Now as for me...I am in favor of whatever move gets the team the most wins and a Stanley Cup. If that's re-upping him or trading him. Makes no difference to me.

That's being objective.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I'm allowed to dislike a the way a player plays. I don't have to stick with the crowd and just follow the party line.

I don't like things that Byfuglien does. I have explained it to death. You don't have to agree with me but it's not just some baseless opinion I've formed, I have real, tangible reasons for not liking his play. Do I HATE BUFF?? Don't be ridiculous. I don't know him. He actually seems like a pretty great guy, who likes to have fun. I'd probably get along with him very well.

Aside from all that do I want a 30 year old, 260 lb guy with previous knee problems and problems with conditioning and weight signing a long term, 50MM deal with my hockey team?

I think of the two sides, I am actually being the logical one, and people who want that deal are listening to their heart. A deal like that does not make sense for the Jets, in their financial structure OR where we are as a hockey team.

I don't want to watch a 33 year old Byfuglien lumber around the ice for 7MM.

It's fine if you don't like him. Don't go around assuming as you did in the bolded though. You are making assumptions and dismissing anyone who disagrees with as too emotional and/or not intelligent enough to see this.

One big crux of your argument is that Buff very soon is going to hit a wall and collapse. I don't agree with that assessment. Lots of players, even bigger guys, have played effectively well into their late 30's. Is it possible he falls off? Sure. But FAR from guaranteed like you are presenting. He will lose a step, all humans do. Will it be at 30, 35, 40? That's impossible to say.

 

[veganhunter]

I'm allowed to dislike a the way a player plays. I don't have to stick with the crowd and just follow the party line.

I don't like things that Byfuglien does. I have explained it to death. You don't have to agree with me but it's not just some baseless opinion I've formed, I have real, tangible reasons for not liking his play. Do I HATE BUFF?? Don't be ridiculous. I don't know him. He actually seems like a pretty great guy, who likes to have fun. I'd probably get along with him very well.

Aside from all that do I want a 30 year old, 260 lb guy with previous knee problems and problems with conditioning and weight signing a long term, 50MM deal with my hockey team?

I think of the two sides, I am actually being the logical one, and people who want that deal are listening to their heart. A deal like that does not make sense for the Jets, in their financial structure OR where we are as a hockey team.

I don't want to watch a 33 year old Byfuglien lumber around the ice for 7MM.

I vehemently disagree with your feelings on Buff as a current player BUT going forward I 100% agree with the sentiment that giving him the type of contract he is going to be looking for is likely a bad idea.

 

[WaveRaven]

I think you have to move Buff before the season no way in H E double hockey sticks would I pay what he is looking for. That's serious money for an average D/winger. I say average because he really isn't spectacular in either area there are huge holes in his game at either position.

This team a can't afford to let guys like this get to UFA either.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Anyone see him or pics lately? If he is over 280, he will be hard to move for a solid return right now. If not, move him fast. Value continues to drop from here. Actually has been dropping since he returned to the ice post ASB.

 

[Board Bard]

Anyone see him or pics lately? If he is over 280, he will be hard to move for a solid return right now. If not, move him fast. Value continues to drop from here. Actually has been dropping since he returned to the ice post ASB.

...without a forklift.

 

[robertocarlos]

Goodbye Buff. We hardly knew you but we loved watching you. It's not you, it's the business.

 

[buggs]

Anyone see him or pics lately? If he is over 280, he will be hard to move for a solid return right now. If not, move him fast. Value continues to drop from here. Actually has been dropping since he returned to the ice post ASB.

And here is exactly how rumors start out. By tomorrow you'll see stuff on the trade boards saying Buff is well over 280 and approaching 300 again

 

[JetsHomer]

It's fine if you don't like him. Don't go around assuming as you did in the bolded though. You are making assumptions and dismissing anyone who disagrees with as too emotional and/or not intelligent enough to see this.

One big crux of your argument is that Buff very soon is going to hit a wall and collapse. I don't agree with that assessment. Lots of players, even bigger guys, have played effectively well into their late 30's. Is it possible he falls off? Sure. But FAR from guaranteed like you are presenting. He will lose a step, all humans do. Will it be at 30, 35, 40? That's impossible to say.

Thank you so much for this post. i couldn't agree more. I can't stand when people won't have an honest debate and assume that they are correct regardless of evidence and then try to act as if their opinion is undisputed fact.

If someone disagrees with your opinion it is not a good idea to automatically assume it's because you're right and that everyone else is just dumber or more emotional than you. That is such a flawed argument that I don't even know where to start with debunking it

 

[jetkarma*]

Anyone see him or pics lately? If he is over 280, he will be hard to move for a solid return right now. If not, move him fast. Value continues to drop from here. Actually has been dropping since he returned to the ice post ASB.

He's fine , worrying is not warranted.

 

[jamiebez]

I'll just leave this here: