Dustin Byfuglien - Part III

[YWGinYYZ]

Continued from here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1799521

Some posts from the previous thread to get us started:

I would expect something in the neighborhood of 8X8 will be Buff's opening position.

Love Gio but he falls into the same catagory as Buff in my eyes. He is a great player but will be 32 this October and has basically missed 20 games on average in each of the last 3 full seasons (he did play the full strike shortened year).

Calgary is between a rock and a hard place but they would be nuts to go big money long term with him.

Is his body type, the type of long term committment a team wants to have tying up payroll, for years down the road or for an inflated annual rate ?

Absolutely not, imo.

All things being equal, Byfuglien's body isn't going to be holding up at 34-35, yet Ladd's might.

If the Jets can get a strong return for Byfuglien now in his prime, I hope they jump on it. He's no $7m/yr player. And he's not a player to build a team around. If he's not relegated to a second pairing defenceman or a third line forward ... he will be shortly.

Be smart with the organization's assets, instead of becoming infatuated with fandom.

If that is the case then count Detroit out. Those last few years of his career would be brutal with that cap hit. Perhaps why Detroit is avoiding it... and gives credence to my previous argument about Detroit not going after Buff if they weren't willing to pony up for Phaneuf.

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[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I want him on the team because he is hard to play against.

 

[KingBogo]

I want him on the team because he is hard to play against.

In a perfect world Chevy convinces Buff to sign a 3-4 year contract. Sadly we don't live in a perfect world. This will Buff's UFA contract. His last swing at the fences. A good agent won't let his player leave anything on the table.

 

[Gil Fisher]

$50 million. That's going to be the number for Buff. 6, 7 or 8 years, I'm not sure. But I bet it's $50m.

 

[Jet]

I want him on the team because he is hard to play against.

Hard to play against? Buff is a lot of things but I wouldn't say he's that. Yes, he gets in moods and rag dolls multiple guys at a time but the vast majority of the time on ice he is not scary in his own zone at all. As a skilled forward I'd be very happy to work Byfuglien down low, or come up his side considering he's up ice so much.

$50 million. That's going to be the number for Buff. 6, 7 or 8 years, I'm not sure. But I bet it's $50m.

I've said that since day one. 50MM is the minimum he is going to get. I sure hope it's not here. That is going to be uuuuugly in a few years.

 

[cbcwpg]

$50 million. That's going to be the number for Buff. 6, 7 or 8 years, I'm not sure. But I bet it's $50m.

If this is what Buff's camp insists on then I say.... trade his Buff Butt... now. He's not going to play for 6, 7, or 8 more years anyway so let someone else sign him for that.

If we have to open the vaults, I would rather it be spent of Trouba.

 

[buggs]

Wow, $50 mill?

I was thinking five years and thought I was being a bit outrageous at the thought of 8.5-7.5-7-6-5 for 34. Yeesh.

I'll stick to my guns and advocate a trade of Buff. Highest value he's going to have is right now, return should be pretty good. I think he may have 2-3 more allstar years in him yet but then he'll likely decline, possibly quickly.

I will say watching the highlight video the other day that wow, I'm not sure I ever want to see the Jets play against Buff.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Sounds like MOST of us feel the same way. We would hate to lose him, but his value will never be higher than it is right now.

Hate to say it as a big fan, but I hope he's gone in big deal tomorrow.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I am torn on trading or resigning Buff.

He will command big money big term, and the value will not be there at the end of his next contract. With that said, resigning him does not prevent us from trading him over the next couple of seasons, if we see signs of regression.

There are teams that will be offering him big deals next off season, if he has a solid season, and makes it to free agency. These teams may likely be interested down the road, so I don't believe we would necessarily be stuck with a bad contact.

Sign him, get 2 or 3 of the best years of him from that contract, then look to move him when the return is still decent.

So I ask:

Lets hypothetically say that today we could get back in a Buff deal a first round pick, a second round pick, a high end prospect and a top 6 foward

And

After signing Buff to a big deal, 2 seasons in, and lets say Buff had 2 solid seasons but dipped slightly in stats in the 2nd year.
At that point we could get a 1st round pick and a top 6 forward.

Is having Buff for 2 solid years of service worth a second round pick and a solid prospect?

Its very hypothetical, but that is the just of it.

 

[koth]

Lawless seems pretty certain the Jets are going to sign Buff. You can hate on Lawless all you want, but he usually has a good idea of what the Jets are going to do.

 

[sully1410]

Hard to play against? Buff is a lot of things but I wouldn't say he's that. Yes, he gets in moods and rag dolls multiple guys at a time but the vast majority of the time on ice he is not scary in his own zone at all. As a skilled forward I'd be very happy to work Byfuglien down low, or come up his side considering he's up ice so much.

I'm.sure that most skilled forwards would disagree with you. Ill never understand the hatebthatbyou have for the man. I realize that he has his faults and isn't that amazing at defense, but neither is Kris Letang. The numbers don't lie. Buff is a net positive when he is on the ice. Sorry you don't like it.

 

[ps241]

Lawless seems pretty certain the Jets are going to sign Buff. You can hate on Lawless all you want, but he usually has a good idea of what the Jets are going to do.

If it is the same interview I heard with him this morning on the Big show I think Gary said they would work hard to get a deal done but he stopped short of saying it would happen.

 

[surixon]

I am torn on trading or resigning Buff.

He will command big money big term, and the value will not be there at the end of his next contract. With that said, resigning him does not prevent us from trading him over the next couple of seasons, if we see signs of regression.

There are teams that will be offering him big deals next off season, if he has a solid season, and makes it to free agency. These teams may likely be interested down the road, so I don't believe we would necessarily be stuck with a bad contact.

Sign him, get 2 or 3 of the best years of him from that contract, then look to move him when the return is still decent.

So I ask:

Lets hypothetically say that today we could get back in a Buff deal a first round pick, a second round pick, a high end prospect and a top 6 foward

And

After signing Buff to a big deal, 2 seasons in, and lets say Buff had 2 solid seasons but dipped slightly in stats in the 2nd year.
At that point we could get a 1st round pick and a top 6 forward.

Is having Buff for 2 solid years of service worth a second round pick and a solid prospect?

Its very hypothetical, but that is the just of it.

You are assuming he'd be tradeable in 3 years. That may not be the case if his game suddenly drops off. He also will more than likely demand a full body movement clause as well which could muddy the waters. Look no further than Thornton in San Jose for an example how that can prevent teams from moving a player they would like to move.

 

[Flair Hay]

I'm.sure that most skilled forwards would disagree with you. Ill never understand the hatebthatbyou have for the man. I realize that he has his faults and isn't that amazing at defense, but neither is Kris Letang. The numbers don't lie. Buff is a net positive when he is on the ice. Sorry you don't like it.

Kris Letang is way better than Byfuglien.

I've come around a little on Byfuglien playing D after this year, but I can't shake that feeling that he's our biggest liability once we are playing better competition in the playoffs.

US Olympic Team already left him behind once despite his great Corsi numbers and production.

 

[jetman]

Kris Letang is way better than Byfuglien.

I've come around a little on Byfuglien playing D after this year, but I can't shake that feeling that he's our biggest liability once we are playing better competition in the playoffs.

US Olympic Team already left him behind once despite his great Corsi numbers and production.

Didn't work out too good for them did it? Maybe if they had Buff they would have got a medal.

 

[mcpw]

Olympics roster decisions are a joke. Don't read anything into them.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Kris Letang is way better than Byfuglien.

I've come around a little on Byfuglien playing D after this year, but I can't shake that feeling that he's our biggest liability once we are playing better competition in the playoffs.

US Olympic Team already left him behind once despite his great Corsi numbers and production.

Curious how you figure Letang is way better. A bit better, I'd agree.

And big deal that the US Olympic Team left him behind. The US team didn't medal and thought Brooks Orpik was one of their seven best defensemen.

 

[Flair Hay]

I thought they were pretty damn good until they ran into Canada in the semis?

Agreed though it doesn't mean much.

I'm fine with extending him if the deal works for both sides.

And if the numbers don't work, trade him this summer or use him this year and let him walk.

 

[James Lahey]

Kris Letang is way better than Byfuglien.

I've come around a little on Byfuglien playing D after this year, but I can't shake that feeling that he's our biggest liability once we are playing better competition in the playoffs.

US Olympic Team already left him behind once despite his great Corsi numbers and production.

Letang's injury history is serious and something that cannot be overlooked. Buff for an extended period of time played very well when Trouba, Enstrom, and Stuart were all out. For what it's worth, most of the poor decisions came when he was playing through a pretty painful rib injury.
He's such a unique player and contrary to what some on these boards seem to think, not someone that I would want to have to jump over the boards and see in a different colour jersey.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

You are assuming he'd be tradeable in 3 years. That may not be the case if his game suddenly drops off. He also will more than likely demand a full body movement clause as well which could muddy the waters. Look no further than Thornton in San Jose for an example how that can prevent teams from moving a player they would like to move.

I did say it was hypothetical. However, I do not think it's a stretch to think Buff has a couple of solid seasons left in him.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Part of me can't shake the feeling that Buff won't be so Buff when he signs a big fat long term contract.

Hope I'm wrong for whoever does end up on the receiving end of that contract.

 

[Warhead77]

I say trade him. His value is high at the moment.

Also, he's going to be a liability in the next few seasons as he gets older. Injuries will increase, thus time away from games, etc.

 

[Flair Hay]

Part of me can't shake the feeling that Buff won't be so Buff when he signs a big fat long term contract.

Hope I'm wrong for whoever does end up on the receiving end of that contract.

Not enough people seem to factor this into the return we are supposedly entitled to for him either.

 

[Johnny HFBOARDS]

Lawless seems pretty certain the Jets are going to sign Buff. You can hate on Lawless all you want, but he usually has a good idea of what the Jets are going to do.

Seven years and a truck! rite?

 

[Jet]

I'm.sure that most skilled forwards would disagree with you. Ill never understand the hatebthatbyou have for the man. I realize that he has his faults and isn't that amazing at defense, but neither is Kris Letang. The numbers don't lie. Buff is a net positive when he is on the ice. Sorry you don't like it.

I'm allowed to dislike a the way a player plays. I don't have to stick with the crowd and just follow the party line.

I don't like things that Byfuglien does. I have explained it to death. You don't have to agree with me but it's not just some baseless opinion I've formed, I have real, tangible reasons for not liking his play. Do I HATE BUFF?? Don't be ridiculous. I don't know him. He actually seems like a pretty great guy, who likes to have fun. I'd probably get along with him very well.

Aside from all that do I want a 30 year old, 260 lb guy with previous knee problems and problems with conditioning and weight signing a long term, 50MM deal with my hockey team?

I think of the two sides, I am actually being the logical one, and people who want that deal are listening to their heart. A deal like that does not make sense for the Jets, in their financial structure OR where we are as a hockey team.

I don't want to watch a 33 year old Byfuglien lumber around the ice for 7MM.