GDT: Ducks @ Blackhawks 7:30PM CT NSCH - Once Upon a Time

[BK]

It was too us watching, but was it to Manson, Kesler? I don't know the answer, but it certainly seems possible that players on the ice might have their eyes elsewhere and not now for sure given the speed of the game.

For this hit I would this yes because the pace was not that high but other hits 100%.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I just haven't figured out Hartman's role and I don't think he has either. Right now he is essentially a fourth line energy player in my eyes and those guys are easily replaceable. If the hawks could trade him for a prospect or picks before trade deadline it would not bring tears to my eyes.

He's in a sophomore slump. He's far more talented than a fourth line energy guy.
He's depth scoring. Those are the guys you need. He had 19 goals and 31 points last year. I'd prefer they held onto him, honestly.

 

[BK]

I just haven't figured out Hartman's role and I don't think he has either. Right now he is essentially a fourth line energy player in my eyes and those guys are easily replaceable. If the hawks could trade him for a prospect or picks before trade deadline it would not bring tears to my eyes.

He is a 3rd liner. Good Hartman is a top 9 type and bad Hartman is a bottom 6 type. If that makes sense.

By no means a "must keep" type but he can be a good NHL player.

 

[piteus]

Corey Crawford should be given the 2017 Hart / Vezina Trophy retroactive. This team is lost without him.

 

[Game suspension]

He is a 3rd liner. Good Hartman is a top 9 type and bad Hartman is a bottom 6 type. If that makes sense.

By no means a "must keep" type but he can be a good NHL player.

I think bad Hartman should be in the press box. He gets more ice time than he deserves. But I guess that reflects the depth of the organization.

 

[BK]

I think bad Hartman should be in the press box. He gets more ice time than he deserves. But I guess that reflects the depth of the organization.

Bad Hartman is a average 4th line player.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

He's the puck carrier. All 12 guys on the ice are watching him...

Generally speaking, they are watching the puck carrier, sure. Are they watching to see if Hartman's feet leave the ice during the hit? Are they watching to see if Hartman's shoulder elbow or should makes contact with the head? The difference between clean and dirty isn't that much and I think it's asking a lot for players to be able to in real time make that distinction.

At the end of the day, I understand Manson sticking up for teammates, and it doesn't really matter if it was justified or not. The issue is with the refs botching it completely.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Generally speaking, they are watching the puck carrier, sure. Are they watching to see if Hartman's feet leave the ice during the hit? Are they watching to see if Hartman's shoulder elbow or should makes contact with the head? The difference between clean and dirty isn't that much and I think it's asking a lot for players to be able to in real time make that distinction.

At the end of the day, I understand Manson sticking up for teammates, and it doesn't really matter if it was justified or not. The issue is with the refs botching it completely.

Having played the game, you can tell the difference in a dirty hit and clean hit from on the ice. Pretty easily, honestly. Especially if you're looking right at the play as it happens. These guys have been playing the game for 25-30 years or more. They can tell. Being jumped by 3 guys for a clean hit is such a Ducks thing, honestly. Particularly when it's Kesler and Manson out there. I'd be willing to put money on it that a couple of different guys on the ice don't try to jump Hartman. And that most the guys on most other teams don't either.

Someone mentioned it before, btw. The ninja evasion to let two Ducks knock heads was amazing. Was like watching some shit out of The Three Stooges.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I'm sorry, I have played the game as well, but you can not always tell if a hit is clean or not. He could have got his elbow up slightly, he could have hit him in the head first, he could have left his feet slightly. There are things you sometimes just can't see in real time that you see when it's slowed down.

It's easy for us to say it was a clean hit, but not all 12 guys are just watching the puck carrier when hits happen. You always have your head on a swivel and looking for your man to cover, or finding open ice. Not everything is as black and white as a few of you are saying.

 

[Blue Liner]

If it was Perry hitting Kane like that, you all would be OK with everyone just standing around doing nothing? Just curious.

If it was a clean hit, as a fan I would begrudgingly tip my cap and be ready to move on with the game.

It also isn't isolated to only when stars get hit. It's any time there is a big hit, period. It is what it is, it's what the game is and the culture within it and isn't changing.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

To boot, he allowed two Ducks players to collide and take each other out. He pulled some straight up ninja **** with that evasive maneuver.

Time and place.

If Manson would have ended up punching Kessler in the face, in might have surpassed one of the cups in all time great Blackhawks moments, lol.

 

[BK]

It is all situational at this point.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I'm sorry, I have played the game as well, but you can not always tell if a hit is clean or not. He could have got his elbow up slightly, he could have hit him in the head first, he could have left his feet slightly. There are things you sometimes just can't see in real time that you see when it's slowed down.

It's easy for us to say it was a clean hit, but not all 12 guys are just watching the puck carrier when hits happen. You always have your head on a swivel and looking for your man to cover, or finding open ice. Not everything is as black and white as a few of you are saying.

Fine. The majority of the time you can tell if a hit is clean or not. But the culture of the game at the nhl level is to rush over and drop the gloves on any big hit, no matter what, and it won't change. It's stupid, but that's how it is.

 

[Spectra]

Pass the doobie.

Who else is untouchable? Or do you mean DeBrincat isn't untouchable either?

 

[kuzy]

Who else is untouchable? Or do you mean DeBrincat isn't untouchable either?

Yes, DeBrincat is more vital to our future success than Hart and Art Ross trophy winner Patrick Kane in the prime years of his career, Schmaltz who will likely have a 50 pt season at 21 years old, and Corey Crawford who probably would have won the Vezina this year had he not been injured. Not arguing that DeBrincat should be on the trading block, but there are far more players than him on the list of untouchables.

 

[kuzy]

Fine. The majority of the time you can tell if a hit is clean or not. But the culture of the game at the nhl level is to rush over and drop the gloves on any big hit, no matter what, and it won't change. It's stupid, but that's how it is.

Definitely. And I don't even think its that stupid. The last thing you're thinking about when you're jumping or being jumped by someone is how clean the hit was. It's hard to tell in the moment anyway. I'd rather know that my teammates have my back after I get lit up than have them sit there and go "well..it was clean..shoulda had your head up. derp."

 

[ChiHawks10]

Who else is untouchable? Or do you mean DeBrincat isn't untouchable either?

Schmaltz, Forsling, Cat, Kane, at least. I'd also like to see them keep Oesterle and Rutta, as well as Saad. He's having a down year. This season is not indicative of his play moving forward imo.

 

[ModryJazyk]

Schmaltz, Forsling, Cat, Kane, at least. I'd also like to see them keep Oesterle and Rutta, as well as Saad. He's having a down year. This season is not indicative of his play moving forward imo.

down year or not, it doesn't matter if he'd score 5 more goals next season, Hawks need at least one top 2 dman asap, thats priority #1 .While almost 50M of cap space is obsctructed by NMC contracts, dumping Saad's 6M could help there.

 

[Spectra]

Schmaltz, Forsling, Cat, Kane, at least. I'd also like to see them keep Oesterle and Rutta, as well as Saad. He's having a down year. This season is not indicative of his play moving forward imo.

Alright, I would for example gladly have a re-do on the Saad-Panarin trade in hindsight. And if we could package Forsling + Schmaltz for a legit young top 6 forward or top pairing D that would be great. We should also trade Kane while we can, despite how much he's done for the franchise. Will most likely never happen though and he will collect his money and produce meaningless points on a bottom feeder for the remainder of his contract.

If you call Rutta and Oesterle untouchable, we clearly have different definitions of the word.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Alright, I would for example gladly have a re-do on the Saad-Panarin trade in hindsight. And if we could package Forsling + Schmaltz for a legit young top 6 forward or top pairing D that would be great. We should also trade Kane while we can, despite how much he's done for the franchise. Will most likely never happen though and he will collect his money and produce meaningless points on a bottom feeder for the remainder of his contract.

If you call Rutta and Oesterle untouchable, we clearly have different definitions of the word.

I’d redo the trade in hindsight too. At this point just have to hope Saad can get back to 30 goals and just bring that to the table on offense. Then Panarin signs for 8M and we see the benefit in our cap. It’s not all bad though. If we didn’t do the trade, we wouldn’t have the high draft pick so you have to consider that as part of it.

 

[crazyhawk]

A Saad for a Trouba level D would be good trade than draft a Tkachuk or Wahlstrom or Zadina/Svechnakov if we end up with that high of a pick. Also trade AA for a late 1st rounder and pick up another strong prospect.

 

[BobbyJet]

Definitely. And I don't even think its that stupid. The last thing you're thinking about when you're jumping or being jumped by someone is how clean the hit was. It's hard to tell in the moment anyway. I'd rather know that my teammates have my back after I get lit up than have them sit there and go "well..it was clean..shoulda had your head up. derp."

There you have it, well put.

It amazes me at the number of people who don't get this. It's not a game for wimps or for the faint-hearted despite the number of people who want it to be.

 

[LDF]

A Saad for a Trouba level D would be good trade than draft a Tkachuk or Wahlstrom or Zadina/Svechnakov if we end up with that high of a pick. Also trade AA for a late 1st rounder and pick up another strong prospect.

i like it, but i would ask for a mid 2-4 draft pick as well.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

And if we could package Forsling + Schmaltz for a legit young top 6 forward or top pairing D that would be great.

Why would you trade Schmaltz+ Forsling for a top 6 forward? Schmaltz is that already a top 6 forward.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

Alright, I would for example gladly have a re-do on the Saad-Panarin trade in hindsight. And if we could package Forsling + Schmaltz for a legit young top 6 forward or top pairing D that would be great. We should also trade Kane while we can, despite how much he's done for the franchise. Will most likely never happen though and he will collect his money and produce meaningless points on a bottom feeder for the remainder of his contract.

If you call Rutta and Oesterle untouchable, we clearly have different definitions of the word.

Yeah lets trade a legit young top 6 forward and our best D prospect for a legit young top 6 forward. We have too many assets as it is so we should just give some away IMHO.

The only forwards worth that package aren't being moved by their teams. Do you honestly not think Schmaltz is a top 6 forward? He is on pace for ~60 points FFS.