Duchene

[glenngineer]

And this is why a #2C is important:



That's a pretty rough forward group. The first line looks good on paper, but has never seemed to put it all together (consistently) with multiple tries the past couple of years.

Way too muck in those line combos. I cannot get behind them at all.

 

[herzausstein]

The tough part about this is putting ekholm, carrier/fabbro and fiala on colorados roster. We'd have to see them for years to come and I don't like that one bit. But on the other hand, i like the acquisition of Duchene a whole, whole lot.

and they'd have to see Duchene who also has the ability to bend the blue line to his will and score great goals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c11Bu7npPSA

 

[Byrddog]

Byrddog, my personal opinion is that trading within the division is overblown.

Happens fairly often and rarely is one team crippled. Chicago acquiring Andrew Ladd was crippling to Chicago. Nashville acquiring Sullivan from Chicago.

Ultimately, a good GM looks more at what's coming in versus what's going out versus instead of focusing on the team with which he is trading. Now, if there are multiple offers that are all extremely close, then division or conference may come into play.

*****

btw, I'm not suggesting that Sakic would accept such a trade, but that I would attempt to head that direction if possible. Doesn't have to be Smith. Could be Wilson or Jarnkrok. The point was to attempt to keep Ekholm for the rest of the season.

However, if Sakic would ultimately agree to Ekholm, a 1st, and Fiala, I'd do it.

I agree that interdivision trade is in most cases is over concerning. But it is the way the GM's for the most part work. When Chicago traded Sully to us they were buring it down to rebuild so that is quite different. Ladd was not an inter division trade he was moved to Atlanta before everyone knew they were moving to the Peg. He was sent back to Chicago to make a cup run and signed back with Peg as a FA. So those were two different situations. Sharp to Dalls is another example when the Hawks had rebuilt and could not afford him they move him to Dallas for scraps that cost nothing to there cap but in fact saved them 2 mil in cap. But Duchene is different he is going to be an impact player for some time and IMO the only reason they are going to trade him is to address needs on the blueline or in net. SO it would not be a surprise if Sarro's was in the discussion from the Ave's standpoint either.

The 1C was the most elusive opening this franchise had for years and was costly to fill. The 2C while slightly less valuable still will require some nice pieces to land. If Duchene does not work out im sure its inevitable that RNH is going to be the next rumor. And it is just as uncertain what the Oil will want for him. Colorado wants as many pieces as the can get on the backend They still have a good young core to build around. If Poile is buying the cost is doing nothing but going up for the next three weeks. Is he writing the season off now????? Knowing with Fabbrie's injury could well take St Louis out of the picture???? Then all he has to concern with is Dallas to get in the 3rd spot. But he runs the risk of Dallas overtaking them and not able to outpoint the Pacific teams for a wildcard. Logic would say he waived Riberio to make a slot for someone other than Fiddler. In the last 12 months Poile has been more surprising than ever and frustrating at the same time. The plan going into the season has failed and the injuries have hurt even more. At last count 38 and now Vern will make 39 players that have had a NHL game in the preds sweater this year. Combination of being too optimistic about the kids and injuries have led to this situation. Not one of us has an logical explanation why this team could manhandle the Wild like they did recently and not just destroy the Wings. There goaltending was not that good the Preds made it look far better. The advance stat guys are just mumbleing in the 4 games where the Preds were shut out this season they put up 42 shots in each of those games. Proving CORSI and Fenwick at least for this team is not a predictor of future games. Theres little reason for an GM to help out this team unless it helps them out as much or more. Mosty likely if Poile buys it will be a rental 2C and right now there are far too many teams still in the hunt.

But Like you said also if Sakic would agree with Ekholm, Fiala, and a 1st Poile should take that and run but the only player with proven value is Ekholm and he is not as valuable as Duchene so I don't see that working.

 

[glenngineer]

But Like you said also if Sakic would agree with Ekholm, Fiala, and a 1st Poile should take that and run but the only player with proven value is Ekholm and he is not as valuable as Duchene so I don't see that working.

That's the asking price though, an NHL defenseman, a top prospect and a 1st. Whether we believe it or not, Fiala should hit around 50 points a season once he's established. That almost makes up for what Duchene would score plus they get a guy who could probably be a first pairing defenseman in Ekholm. I'm sure that's plenty in addition to the 1st round pick. Not sure many more teams could offer the quality that is there.

 

[Montross]

Way too muck in those line combos. I cannot get behind them at all.

Those lines make me sad.

 

[KurtAngle]

Ekholm is a good D man, but I'd trade him in a second to get a Duchene or another like him. Ekholm is good, but to me he's not a special type like other D men we have had here.

Plus, one thing the Preds organization can do for sure is develop D men.

I don't think the Duchene trade here will happen. I think the ship has sailed.

 

[triggrman]

What the lines really are.

Neal-Johansen-Forsberg
Wilson-Jarnkrok-Arvidsson
Zolnierczyk/Sissons-Fisher-Smith
Watson-Fiddler-McLeod

 

[Scoresberg]

I've thought about this Duchene situation a lot and I'll try to make good sense on why we should trade for him, Glenn has already covered me pretty well.

Why it makes sense for us:

1. Expansion draft

Our expansion draft plans are vague right now, and trading one of our top-4 D would solidify the plans. We'd go the 7-3-1 route and get to protect Jarnkrok and Wilson which we can't do if we go 8-1. We'd lose Smith to LV and that would be huge for us to get out of that contract.

2. Irwin-Ellis pair

Lavy has put together Irwin-Ellis pair, and I don't think it's no coincidence. They've played against top competition because, I think, Poile wanted to see if their capable to hold their own. So far, they've looked as good as any our 2nd pair this year. They'd make a solid pairing going forward.

3. The things Duchene brings to the table

Faceoffs. The number two man in the league at the dot. Needless to say, that's important. One of the big reasons we've found success lately is that we have completely owned the dot.

3 on 3 play. We've pretty much sucked at it so far so Duchene would bring us a lot of help there and a couple of more points per season.

Leadership. Duchene is not some kid who doesn't care and doesn't know how to behave. He carries himself very well, plays the game passionately and provides leadership. The guy has been an assitant captain almost everywhere he's been in his career.

4. Duchene loves The Music City

The guy has openly said that he loves Nashville and he's a "wannabe country singer". Is there a more perfect player for the city and the team? He's a UFA in 2019, but I don't think there's a chance he wouldn't sign with us. We have a contending team here for years to come and he's a young player who fits the time window perfectly.

5. Neal extension, Kamenev coming up?

James Neal's contract is ending in 2018, and if we hope to sign him we have to have a contending team. I'm not saying we don't have as of now but our center situation is questionable. Neal is nearing 30 and has a 4-5 good years in him. We have to take an advantage of that. Kamenev is the choice for #2C here but he might not be ready for next year. Maybe going forward yes, and if Duchene doesn't somehow sign with us it's an softer fall as we have Kamenev coming for the #2C. Still, Joey-Duchene-Kamenev is a SC winning 1-2-3 punch down the middle.

6. Copying the winners

Recent history has shown that the one important key to winning the SC is a strong center core. We have decent centers, Fisher and Jarny are okay, but they aren't enough to go all the way. Johansen-Duchene combo down the middle is a SC-winning combo.

7. Top-6 defenseman are easy to find

If we feel that Irwin, Bitetto or Weber don't belong to the top-6 defense, we can always go out and acquire a d-man. They come relatively cheap, and in the summer we could surely find a vet top-6 d-man.

8. Our defense prospect pool could absorb the hit

We have a deep prospect pool defense-wise with Fabbro, Girard, Carrier, Dougherty and Allard in the pipeline. Losing one of them wouldn't be the end of the world, when given the Preds' ability to find good d-men. On the other hand, Poile has to hold on for Fiala and Kamenev as they are our only good forward prospects and vital going forward.

Why it, on the other hand, doesn't make sense for us:

1. Josi's head, Subban's back?

Our top 2 defensemen have struggled with injuries lately and should one of them suffer a long-term or career-ending injury we'd fall off to nothing. So we'd relying on two players' questionable health and that would be a concern if we make this deal.

2. Do we want to blow it up, again?

As Poile has stated, he doesn't want to make a habit out of trading our top-4 defensemen. The team is starting to gel defensively, and it's starting to show on the ice. Chemistry would take a big hit again in the defense should we trade one of the top-4 D. Although, there isn't any d-man coming back so the same players would just get more ice-time.


All-in-all, I think the time for us is now, Rinne's good years are running out, Saros is of course coming off strong but still I'd rely on Rinne more when the time is. He was good in the last year's playoffs.

Poile, the time for us is now. Make the move.

 

[Gh24]

I've thought and rationalized this trade enough. The idea of Joey-Duchene is just so exciting that I find myself hoping to find news we've actually done it every time I open HFboards. Am I up for a huge disappointment? Nah, the pessimist in me is already preparing to read "Confirmed trade with link: [CHI/COL]"

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Poile, the time for us is now. Make the move.

Amen. Great thinking and a great post.
I'd be extremely surprised if Avalanche won't deal Duchene. It's the perfect way to rebuild.

 

[Pred303]

if i'm COL, the only way i trade this guy is if i don't think there is a chance he will re-sign with COL when his contract is out. if you are 'rebuilding' why trade your good young pieces? those are guys you try to rebuild around, not the rest of the non-performers.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

if i'm COL, the only way i trade this guy is if i don't think there is a chance he will re-sign with COL when his contract is out. if you are 'rebuilding' why trade your good young pieces? those are guys you try to rebuild around, not the rest of the non-performers.

You trade the high performing guys for foundation for the future.
Just like what Toronto did.

 

[Gh24]

How I look at it. There's a risk he's not going to resign no matter what he says now. No idea what the team looks like in few years. If they're building around MacKinnon, Rantanen, Zadorov and co, it's logical to turn quality "older young guys" into assets for the future window of contention rather than "waste" some of their prime years while getting there.

Or they could value his experience when they're ready to contend. Idk. I hope they want assets for future rather than keep him around, just so we could have a chance at acquiring him.

That brings a question that why would they want Ekholm then? They could use a veteran Dman with prime years left. How does that not apply to Duchene? It does, but does he have too much value to waste holding on to through these years of rebuilding, just to have his veteran presence then? IF he even re-signs.

 

[herzausstein]

How I look at it. There's a risk he's not going to resign no matter what he says now. No idea what the team looks like in few years. If they're building around MacKinnon, Rantanen, Zadorov and co, it's logical to turn quality "older young guys" into assets for the future window of contention rather than "waste" some of their prime years while getting there.

Or they could value his experience when they're ready to contend. Idk. I hope they want assets for future rather than keep him around, just so we could have a chance at acquiring him.

That brings a question that why would they want Ekholm then? They could use a veteran Dman with prime years left. How does that not apply to Duchene? It does, but does he have too much value to waste holding on to through these years of rebuilding, just to have his veteran presence then? IF he even re-signs.

The way I look at it is that right now they are burning alot of cheap and young contract years with those guys you mentioned. Until they upgrade their defense and possibly goaltending (though that may be a symptom of their defense), they are wasting some of these guys best years. To me it would make sense for them to trade Duchene as he will likely get the best return and bring in some pieces that will work for their younger cores potential cup window. So an ekholm + girard/fabbro/carrier would be a sensible type return which would upgrade their defense significantly in the short run and give them a great near future prospect who will likely be playing quality nhl minutes in 2-3 years

 

[glenngineer]

Just saw something on the main boards saying we have a scout at the Pens game tonight and guess who their opponent is, the Avs.

 

[herzausstein]

Just saw something on the main boards saying we have a scout at the Pens game tonight and guess who their opponent is, the Avs.

or maybe we will target Malkin

 

[token grinder]

Just saw something on the main boards saying we have a scout at the Pens game tonight and guess who their opponent is, the Avs.

Stanley Cup Final scouting. Duh.

 

[NSH615]

The Hockey News is now ranking us as the best fit and most likely destination for Duchene.

[Fieldset=The Hockey News]...
What makes Duchene most likely to become a Predator is that Nashville has the best blend of need and willingness. Mike Fisher shouldn’t be a top-two center on any team calling itself a Stanley Cup contender. That’s not meant to disrespect Fisher. It’s just that he’s 36. He’s still an effective two-way player and would be a wonderful No. 3 center on a powerhouse. Landing Duchene would put Fisher in that spot and give the Preds another dangerous scorer up front, which they desperately need. No Nashville player has more than 17 goals, albeit Filip Forsberg has heated up a lot lately.
...


What Nashville can offer: Mattias Ekholm’s name has been tossed around in trade rumors this year. After dealing Jones away last season, though, Poile has to be careful not to weaken his depth too much. The more likely scenario: offering a first-rounder and a prospect such as Dante Fabbro. Maybe Kevin Fiala or Vladislav Kamenev, too. We know Poile is fearless.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/top-five-trade-destinations-for-matt-duchene
[/fieldset]

 

[67 others]

Instead of an arm and a leg, offer Subban

Then sign Shattenkirk as a UFA


lol.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Instead of an arm and a leg, offer Subban

Then sign Shattenkirk as a UFA


lol.

I know this is a joke but if this Subban we have now is the same Subban that would remain with us if we dont trade him, I'm all for it.
Not for this trade though.

 

[thecloser]

Instead of an arm and a leg, offer Subban

Then sign Shattenkirk as a UFA


lol.

It's very funny you say this. I was talking last night about how disappointed I am in Subban and was mentioning that we should try to trade him for a package of Duchene + Landeskog + Zadorov and add Wilson/Smith, and a prospect or two. I think cap wise it would work with Subban and Wilson/Smiths numbers coming off. Don't know if Col would accept but at this point I'd rather keep Ek, Ellis and Josi intact.

 

[Drake744]

I'm really worried about the prospect of trading away Fabbro, but I used to feel the same way about Fiala and at this point I'd be fine trading him. So, what do I know?

 

[Ivan13]

How I look at it. There's a risk he's not going to resign no matter what he says now. No idea what the team looks like in few years. If they're building around MacKinnon, Rantanen, Zadorov and co, it's logical to turn quality "older young guys" into assets for the future window of contention rather than "waste" some of their prime years while getting there.

Or they could value his experience when they're ready to contend. Idk. I hope they want assets for future rather than keep him around, just so we could have a chance at acquiring him.

That brings a question that why would they want Ekholm then? They could use a veteran Dman with prime years left. How does that not apply to Duchene? It does, but does he have too much value to waste holding on to through these years of rebuilding, just to have his veteran presence then? IF he even re-signs.

Sorry for invading your forum. Your reasoning is on point. And I don't think they are interested in Ekholm one bit. They are targeting guys like Hanifin, Chabot, McAvoy, Sergachyov etc.

 

[Scoresberg]

Sorry for invading your forum. Your reasoning is on point. And I don't think they are interested in Ekholm one bit. They are targeting guys like Hanifin, Chabot, McAvoy, Sergachyov etc.

Fair enough. Is there a deal made between these two teams? What would you want from us?

 

[triggrman]

This dude is being so overvalued it's ridiculous.

I hope and pray we're not the team to overpay.