Confirmed with Link: Duchene to OTT in three-team trade

[Ice-Tray]

Karlsson said he wanted to spend his whole career in Ottawa less than 10 months ago, and questioned guys in the playoffs (Brassard) about their play, whats your point?

It's not dark, it's an educated guess. It's not what I want to happen, it's just something I can very well see happening.

You only see and want to see positives, and that's more than fine.

I like to see positives, but call it how I see it.

I wasn't negative, at all, for 95% of the 13 years I've been here. There is a reason I've been a negative, ****ty poster for the past year. It's the direction of the team. Look around, it's happening before our eyes.

I honestly meant the last bit to be light (boom, still got it) given our usual back and fourth.

10 months is a long time ago, and before things fell apart somehow. If we look at EK's recent comments we no longer get the same sense. That's a lot different from Stone being right smack dab in the middle of whatever is going on on that team behind closed doors and coming saying he wants to stay and fix it, along with Duchene.

I admit that I'm generally a glass half full kind a guy, but I think that in this case you're doing all the work. I kn ow you're not a negative shitty poster brother, it's why I enjoy discussing things with you. If we get a good return from EK, a fair one like from Brass (in my opinion) I think we're gonna be ok.

If EK is indeed an issue this season (don't want to knock him), then you have to make a hockey trade, and we can blame ownership in a different conversation. What we seem to be seeing is some stars wanting to stay and fix this, and some wanting to leave. The idea that some guys in the room want to fix things, think they can be a part of a fix, means that guys in the know feel that this can be fixed.

Huzzah!

 

[Ice-Tray]

I’m
Not sure where you stand on this. Are you still think karlsson has always stated behind closed doors he wants to be here. And if not traded he’ll gladly sign here long term?

Nope, can't think that realistically now. I mean just the other day it was reported that EK didn't want to be involved in a rebuild, and he wanted to play for a cap team.

There is too much evidence from then until now, and to be honest, in a larger context involving his play this year, it makes a lot of sense.

Even I can only take what a player says as true for so long, and when you really look at his last comments about Ottawa, it seems he's really just letting fans know that he's not leaving because he doesn't like the city. Through in a few ill conceived jokes, like pretending to walk into the TB dressing room, and I think this guys has completely checked out, and likely did so a long time ago.

It fits into Stone's comments, it fits into whether there was a dressing room issue with PD, and it fits in with his attitude on the ice. The worst thing about him not being gone asap is that this is our captain, and as he has gone so has the team.

Yes, I now believe that I was wrong, and that it is quite likely that EK has wanted out, and made it known, a long time ago.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Its hard to say which came first. What ever hope of salvaging a situation where EK remains in Ottawa seems to have dissipated. I don't believe EK woke up one day and decided he wanted out .. I think there are a series of events that occurred that led him to that. Some of those events were at the feet of Melnyk and/or Dorion. Its possible that what transpired with Turris had something to do with it. Its possible that communication resulting from his "market value" comments had something to do with it.. there so many things we don't know that could have influenced where we are now... I won't put this on EK wanting out to play for a Cap team that "wants to win"... I know he wants to win , I think there is more to this than that.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Nope, can't think that realistically now. I mean just the other day it was reported that EK didn't want to be involved in a rebuild, and he wanted to play for a cap team.

When did Erik say this.. I don't dispute it was reported as such, although I did not hear it.. Is this a new stance? Is it as a result of being shopped? Is it because he was told he was being moved?

 

[Korpse]

When did Erik say this.. I don't dispute it was reported as such, although I did not hear it.. Is this a new stance? Is it as a result of being shopped? Is it because he was told he was being moved?

The only thing I've heard even close is that both sides are hoping for a trade before the deadline, which tells me that he wants all the speculation to be over with more than it says he doesn't want to be a part of a rebuild. One point I'd like to add is that imo the only reason this team is headed for a rebuild is because they don't think they can retain Karlsson.

 

[trobby]

The only thing I've heard even close is that both sides are hoping for a trade before the deadline, which tells me that he wants all the speculation to be over with more than it says he doesn't want to be a part of a rebuild. One point I'd like to add is that imo the only reason this team is headed for a rebuild is because they don't think they can retain Karlsson.

We have so many good pieces that this thing doesn't need a rebuild, but it seems as if Dorion will do anything and everything to get rid of any resemblance of NHL calibre this team has.

 

[Ice-Tray]

When did Erik say this.. I don't dispute it was reported as such, although I did not hear it.. Is this a new stance? Is it as a result of being shopped? Is it because he was told he was being moved?

Yesterday or Friday Poulin said that word for word on trade centre. I wouldn't make stuff up like that. He said that EK indicated that he didn't want to go through a rebuild, and wanted to play for a cap team. No one is trying to make that into a character issue concerning EK, he has the right to make those decisions, and it is completely understandable.

Maybe someone can find the TSN clip.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Yesterday or Friday Poulin said that word for word on trade centre. I wouldn't make stuff up like that. He said that EK indicated that he didn't want to go through a rebuild, and wanted to play for a cap team. No one is trying to make that into a character issue concerning EK, he has the right to make those decisions, and it is completely understandable.

Maybe someone can find the TSN clip.

I said I don't dispute it was reported. What does that mean to you?

 

[Ice-Tray]

I said I don't dispute it was reported. What does that mean to you?

All good SOA, I came back here to several people questioning it and a few upset with the implications. Is what it is, I don't have the clip or the desire to find it. We'll know most everything soon enough anyways

 

[CanadianHockey]

No one is trying to make that into a character issue concerning EK...

That's not how I read certain posts.

How often does this team give the C to the wrong player, Yashin, Spezza & now Karlsson it turns out may have been the wrong choice. Yashin was a disaster, Spezza couldn't handle the scrutiny & Karlsson has lost interest.

 

[TB1299]

I know for 100% certainty that Erik wants to stay. I have as direct source as you can possibly get outside of Erik and his wife telling me themselves.

Aside from their brand new house in the Glebe, the truth is that they want to raise their family here with Mels parents and all her family.

The Karlssons literally run this city and have developed soo many incredible friendships together over the last 6 years. Erik has been here for 9 years already and Mel grew up here. This is home for them.

It really doesnt get much better for him and he really does loves Canada and loves playing for a Canadian franchise. Very similar to how PK did.

And as much as Erik wants to win he still has time to be here and re tool for 2-3 years. You all saw that his skill is far beyond speed and that he may have to alter his game but he will still be one of the best in the game for a good decade or so.

Don't forget our best player was 36 when we went to the cup finals. Speaking of Alfie, Eriks best man and best friend, yeah he is in Ottawa too.

If Karlsson was 31-33 and the team was full blown tanking I am sure that it would be a very different situation and it may be at that time but Erik wants to stay for now. Like 1000%.

Is he pissed that the SENS were looking to trade him? I am sure he was ( i don't know this, just my speculation) but does that change the fact that he wants to stay? Absolutely not, especially because he has the whole city behind him. This isn't like with Spezza when he had a billion drunk hillbillies swearing at him every two seconds. He is adored here. He is not going to leave a city just to spite the owner.

Even Jason loved it here. He didn't leave until he was 31.

The only way he goes is if he gets low balled but that won't happen. The money lost from not signing him would offset and more any money saved by trading him.

So Karlsson wants to stay and its becoming more and more apparant that Melnyk needs him to stay even if he doesn't want to keep him. He has no choice and its obvious by his little PR stunt last month with his apology tour that Public Relations do matter. If I had to bet I would strongly bet on a contract extension.

Will he be a Senator for life. Thats a complete different story.

 

[HSF]

now that he is on Ottawa im sure he will be super underrated but dude was on team canada

legit top line center since spezza. real good trade by ottawa if we can salvage next season

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I know for 100% certainty that Erik wants to stay. I have as direct source as you can possibly get outside of Erik and his wife telling me themselves.

Aside from their brand new house in the Glebe, the truth is that they want to raise their family here with Mels parents and all her family.

The Karlssons literally run this city and have developed soo many incredible friendships together over the last 6 years. Erik has been here for 9 years already and Mel grew up here. This is home for them.

It really doesnt get much better for him and he really does loves Canada and loves playing for a Canadian franchise. Very similar to how PK did.

And as much as Erik wants to win he still has time to be here and re tool for 2-3 years. You all saw that his skill is far beyond speed and that he may have to alter his game but he will still be one of the best in the game for a good decade or so.

Don't forget our best player was 36 when we went to the cup finals. Speaking of Alfie, Eriks best man and best friend, yeah he is in Ottawa too.

If Karlsson was 31-33 and the team was full blown tanking I am sure that it would be a very different situation and it may be at that time but Erik wants to stay for now. Like 1000%.

Is he pissed that the SENS were looking to trade him? I am sure he was ( i don't know this, just my speculation) but does that change the fact that he wants to stay? Absolutely not, especially because he has the whole city behind him. This isn't like with Spezza when he had a billion drunk hillbillies swearing at him every two seconds. He is adored here. He is not going to leave a city just to spite the owner.

Even Jason loved it here. He didn't leave until he was 31.

The only way he goes is if he gets low balled but that won't happen. The money lost from not signing him would offset and more any money saved by trading him.

So Karlsson wants to stay and its becoming more and more apparant that Melnyk needs him to stay even if he doesn't want to keep him. He has no choice and its obvious by his little PR stunt last month with his apology tour that Public Relations do matter. If I had to bet I would strongly bet on a contract extension.

Will he be a Senator for life. Thats a complete different story.

Good post.

Karlsson can want to stay, but I think the reality of the situation is that he will have to choose between maximizing his earnings and staying an Ottawa Senator. It's not fair to Karlsson, but I think it's the way it is.

I just can't fathom how Dorion can look at the financial constraints Melnyk puts on the team, the albatross of dead money on the books going forward (something like 13 million) and think that he can build a winning team with essentially a 55M player salary budget due to all the dead money while paying Karl as much as 12.5M.

 

[DueDiligence]

Good post.

Karlsson can want to stay, but I think the reality of the situation is that he will have to choose between maximizing his earnings and staying an Ottawa Senator. It's not fair to Karlsson, but I think it's the way it is.

I just can't fathom how Dorion can look at the financial constraints Melnyk puts on the team, the albatross of dead money on the books going forward (something like 13 million) and think that he can build a winning team with essentially a 55M player salary budget due to all the dead money while paying Karl as much as 12.5M.

Where did you come up with that number?

 

[Micklebot]

Where did you come up with that number?

My guess is some combination of Ryan (7.5) Burrows (2.5) Anderson (4.75) and Condon (2.4), Gaborik (4.875) retained money on Phaneuf (1.75) and the portion of MacArthur's contract that isn't covered by insurance (.900).

Just Ryan, Phaneuf retained and Gaborik is in the range.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Where did you come up with that number?

Ryan=7.5M
Mac=950k (20 percent of his salary, 80 percent covers insurance)
Phaneuf=1.65M
Gaborik=3.1Mish

Those are off the top of my head, too lazy to load up cap friendly right now. If you average it out, we're looking at something like 10M or 11M of dead money a season for the first three years of Karlsson's extension. Weigh that against our 68M budget, and it'll be extremely hard to be competitive with Karlsson at 10M, let alone 12.5M.

Not to mention, so many of our star players are reaching UFA years at the same time. Stone and Duchene for one. Ceci while not a star on that same level is arbitration eligible and will look for a raise as well. Pageau gets a raise to 3Mish this upcoming season. It goes on and on.

Teams are cyclical. That is why what the Red Wings have managed to do up until the last year or two is absolutely astonishing. The way winners are built in the cap era is that first and foremost teams need stars. But then they need secondary and tertiary players on their ELC+RFA years to mature at the right time in order to be able to compete under the cap. Sometimes, teams run out of these players, or these players all reach UFA status at the same time, and then a team is stuck with no other option. That's pretty much where we are at. It's a worst case scenario. Karlsson (by his own words) wants market value and not a team discount, almost all of our core players have ran through their cheap RFA years, and we've accumulated too much dead cap. We're done.

All paths lead to a rebuild. It hurts to say as I stare into the cold dark eyes of my Erik Karlsson Funko pop figure, but it's the truth as I say it.

 

[DJB]

Duchene continues to impress.

Still waiting for @FolignoQuantumLeap thoughts on his performance after he called me out post trade which I responded .

Hopefully he has the courtesy to do the same rather than continue to avoid this topic .

 

[Dino Tkachuk]

Ryan=7.5M
Mac=950k (20 percent of his salary, 80 percent covers insurance)
Phaneuf=1.65M
Gaborik=3.1Mish

Those are off the top of my head, too lazy to load up cap friendly right now. If you average it out, we're looking at something like 10M or 11M of dead money a season for the first three years of Karlsson's extension. Weigh that against our 68M budget, and it'll be extremely hard to be competitive with Karlsson at 10M, let alone 12.5M.

Not to mention, so many of our star players are reaching UFA years at the same time. Stone and Duchene for one. Ceci while not a star on that same level is arbitration eligible and will look for a raise as well. Pageau gets a raise to 3Mish this upcoming season. It goes on and on.

Teams are cyclical. That is why what the Red Wings have managed to do up until the last year or two is absolutely astonishing. The way winners are built in the cap era is that first and foremost teams need stars. But then they need secondary and tertiary players on their ELC+RFA years to mature at the right time in order to be able to compete under the cap. Sometimes, teams run out of these players, or these players all reach UFA status at the same time, and then a team is stuck with no other option. That's pretty much where we are at. It's a worst case scenario. Karlsson (by his own words) wants market value and not a team discount, almost all of our core players have ran through their cheap RFA years, and we've accumulated too much dead cap. We're done.

All paths lead to a rebuild. It hurts to say as I stare into the cold dark eyes of my Erik Karlsson Funko pop figure, but it's the truth as I say it.

Good post but there's no way Ryan's contract is $7.5M of dead money. A couple million maybe...

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Good post but there's no way Ryan's contract is $7.5M of dead money. A couple million maybe...

Whether or not you take issue with me calling Ryan dead money, ultimately doesn't change the point of my post you quoted. We cannot compete with Karlsson at 12.5M and (whatever you want to call) the combination of Ryan+Gaborik+Phaneuf+Non-Insured Mac at 12M-13M under a 68M self imposed salary cap, which is why we're probably on the road to a rebuild.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Whether or not you take issue with me calling Ryan dead money, ultimately doesn't change the point of my post you quoted. We cannot compete with Karlsson at 12.5M and (whatever you want to call) the combination of Ryan+Gaborik+Phaneuf+Non-Insured Mac at 12M-13M under a 68M self imposed salary cap, which is why we're probably on the road to a rebuild.

We have a GM who's job it is to consider these things.

Not singling you out here but it seems like a lot of people forget that managing a professional sports team is a full time job (safe bet that it is way more than 37.5 hours a week!).

I am fairly certain Dorion has a plan. Is it a good one? Will it work? We'll see.

 

[JD1]

Duchene continues to impress.

Still waiting for @FolignoQuantumLeap thoughts on his performance after he called me out post trade which I responded .

Hopefully he has the courtesy to do the same rather than continue to avoid this topic .

dont hold your breath waiting

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Duchene continues to impress.

Still waiting for @FolignoQuantumLeap thoughts on his performance after he called me out post trade which I responded .

Hopefully he has the courtesy to do the same rather than continue to avoid this topic .

WELL, he may have gone over board calling Duchene a 40 point player from here on out... but I think its also crazy to look at Duchenes hottest streak ( I think ever?) and be like "this is the real Duchene and the one we will always get" in what is a throwaway season.

 

[Sensung]

In 2018 Kyle Turris has 10 points in 26 games
Matt Duchene has 26 points in 28 games.

 

[Upgrayedd]

In 2018 Kyle Turris has 10 points in 26 games
Matt Duchene has 26 points in 28 games.

Oh you didn't hear? We lost that trade immediately just because, funny was listening to a broadcast the other night where it was I believe Mike Johnson who brought that up during the game, it was met with radio silence.

 

[DJB]

dont hold your breath waiting

It's too bad. Because I've lost all respect for him now.