News: Dubas open to trading top prospects

[TGWL]

If a trade to pick up a player like Mark Stone and we have the cap space to sign him long term, we'd part with a top prospect. We won't be trading them for rentals or guys who we're going to let walk as UFA's in the next 16 months. We're already right up against the cap with Hyman up this summer and Rielly up next year. Robertson, Liljegren, and Sandin all could be NHL contributors in the next two years, which directly helps our cap issues. Any deal today that's going to move them needs to knock our socks off or help solve the cap issue, because we're not going to trade one of our best pieces for Ekholm, which will cost us Holl in the expansion draft, Hyman this summer, and then Ekholm walks next summer. Leafs are happy to make a big play to get impact players, but we're not going to bleed assets. Be mindful of the dominoes.

I'm not sure there's a Mark Stone player available, and would certainly cost more than just a top prospect. I don't think Leafs need a high end player like Mark Stone to go all in.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

They need to worry more about salary than prospects at this point. They can literally not fit any players under the cap. I think that's what killed the Leafs in the first place post-Sundin era.

 

[Predsanddead24]

You heard two separate statements and are conflating the two as directly connected. In the lack of any context such as the history of trades and player value in the NHL, I can see how you would come to that conclusion. But we do have the benefit of context and having some sort of ideas for what players and prospects generally get traded for in the NHL. As I said previously, I won't say never, but I will point out that what you are suggesting is unlikely.

Kyle Dubas is willing to trade a top prospect.
Kyle Dubas would prefer a rental to a hockey trade.
Kyle Dubas would prefer a cheeseburger for dinner.

Is Kyle Dubas willing to trade a top prospect for a cheeseburger? While the two premises that you've identified are individually sound, their connection is not implied and therefore it is not logical to imply that they ARE; the argument is not valid. Similarly, it is not logical to imply that they are NOT, which is why I am not saying never. That is where critical thinking and context come into play.

Whatever you say. Cheeseburgers are clearly a distinct topic from making a trade at the deadline. Enjoy your pseudointellectualism.

 

[CupsOverCash]

How much salary cap space will they have available at the deadline to make a noteworthy move?

 

[uncleben]

Leafs need a Goalie, or D if no G on the market

Not really actually. They need a top6 winger, and or maybe some 4th line stability.

G upgrade would be nice, but unlikely. What we need is a healthy Campbell playing A game. Freddie, if he's been nothing else, has been steady on his stats, including steadily below average as a starter.
A true starter would be nice but who's out there? And selling the farm for a goalie doesn't often go well.
We need to pray to be on the lucky side of a hot goaltender for once, because we seem to constantly get burned by that.

D would be last on the list. (Though if you can get a legit upgrade at fair price, what team would ever say no?)

Preds offer Granlund for Lilly

Yuck.

 

[LeafGrief]

I'm not sure there's a Mark Stone player available, and would certainly cost more than just a top prospect. I don't think Leafs need a high end player like Mark Stone to go all in.

Mark Stone cost a top prospect (Brannstrom) a fringe NHL'er in Lindberg, and a future 2nd round pick. Why is the price tag higher for the Leafs?

I also agree that the Leafs do not need a high end player like Mark Stone. Particularly because there is next to no way that we would be able to keep them long term, or if we did it would mean shipping out a different high end player.

 

[AvroArrow]

Top 6 winger 3 bottom 6 forwards.

What I think we need, 2nd line LW, 2nd or 3rd pairing quality LD, starting goalie, 3C.

 

[supsens]

Mark Stone cost a top prospect (Brannstrom) a fringe NHL'er in Lindberg, and a future 2nd round pick. Why is the price tag higher for the Leafs?

I also agree that the Leafs do not need a high end player like Mark Stone. Particularly because there is next to no way that we would be able to keep them long term, or if we did it would mean shipping out a different high end player.

Because he was UFA and now he has a long contract

 

[LeafGrief]

Whatever you say. Cheeseburgers are clearly a distinct topic from making a trade at the deadline. Enjoy your pseudointellectualism.

Wait, so now you want to introduce context? If Kyle Dubas is willing to include a top prospect in ALL trades, then preferring a rental would imply the top prospect being considered for that trade. Kyle Dubas is willing to include a top prospect in A trade, that does not imply he wants to include them in the rental trade, nor does it imply that he will not.

You asked if it was logical. I answered. The cheeseburger actually illustrated quite well why your argument doesn't hold water very well. If Kyle Dubas is willing to include a top prospect in any trade, he might even be willing to trade that prospect for a cheeseburger.

 

[LeafGrief]

Because he was UFA and now he has a long contract

The Leafs aren't trying to trade for Mark Stone. If a rental Mark Stone cost a top prospect, body, and a 2nd, then a Mark Stone level player (which is what I referred to in the original post quoted) would cost the Leafs a similar price.

 

[GreatSaveLuongo]

1st+2nd+Robertson+Andersen for Gibson

 

[CupInSIX]

The Leafs aren't trying to trade for Mark Stone. If a rental Mark Stone cost a top prospect, body, and a 2nd, then a Mark Stone level player (which is what I referred to in the original post quoted) would cost the Leafs a similar price.

Stone wasn't a rental.

 

[LeafGrief]

Stone wasn't a rental.

Awesome! We won't even need to include a top prospect for a rental if a full value Mark Stone cost a top prospect plus a 2nd.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Sell the fahm fa Kessel!

 

[David Suzuki]

Lilegren is a goner

I can't imagine he has too much value? 22 years old and can't get a regular shift in the NHL.

 

[LeafGrief]

I can't imagine he has too much value? 22 years old and can't get a regular shift in the NHL.

Liljegren turns 22 at the end of April.

I see that you're a Habs fan.

Shea Weber debuted at 20 and played his first full season at 21.
Petry debuted at 23 and played his first full season at 24.
Edmundson made it at 22.
Chiarot didn't play full time until 24.
Kulak didn't play full time until 23.
Romanov is now playing at 21.
Mete made it at 19, but is 22 years old and not a roster regular for you guys.

You should probably try and imagine just a little harder.

 

[David Suzuki]

Liljegren turns 22 at the end of April.

I see that you're a Habs fan.

Shea Weber debuted at 20 and played his first full season at 21.
Petry debuted at 23 and played his first full season at 24.
Edmunson made it at 22.
Chiarot didn't play full time until 24.
Kulak didn't play full time until 23.
Romanov is now playing at 21.
Mete made it at 19, but is 22 years old and not a roster regular for you guys.

You should probably try and imagine just a little harder.

I don't get your point. Petry didn't have a lot of value when he was 23 years old not playing in the NHL. He developed later on but his developement curve is almost unseen in the NHL. Not many guys get better at 32 years old lol. Weber was playing in the NHL at 21 proving the point that high end prospects are probably playing in the nhl at 21 years old.

I think it's pretty safe to say that by the time you're 22 years old you should probably be playing on a regular basis in the NHL if you're a prospect of value. I really don't see how Liligren would be labeled as a "top prospect" enough to be the main piece for a player like Forsberg or anything like that. It doesn't mean he doesn't turn into an NHL regular and even a top pairing guy, but in terms of trade value, surely it isn't high enough to return a player of substance on his own.

 

[DomBarr]

Probably not Sandin, who is injured, or Robertson, who forwent performance bonuses in order to expedite his ascension to the big club.

I'm okay trading 1st/Liljegren/Amirov, but the acquired player must also be worth the iron price that the Kraken will demand in order to protect them.

2nd round picks do not get performance bonuses so he didn't give anything up to do anything. that said you wouldn't trade Robertson until you have an idea if his D+1 year was a fluke or not.

 

[LeafGrief]

I don't get your point. Petry didn't have a lot of value when he was 23 years old not playing in the NHL. He developed later on but his developement curve is almost unseen in the NHL. Not many guys get better at 32 years old lol. Weber was playing in the NHL at 21 proving the point that high end prospects are probably playing in the nhl at 21 years old.

I think it's pretty safe to say that by the time you're 22 years old you should probably be playing on a regular basis in the NHL if you're a prospect of value. I really don't see how Liligren would be labeled as a "top prospect" enough to be the main piece for a player like Forsberg or anything like that. It doesn't mean he doesn't turn into an NHL regular and even a top pairing guy, but in terms of trade value, surely it isn't high enough to return a player of substance on his own.

Muzzin was 23. Jake Gardiner was 21, Pesce 21, Josh Manson 24, Travis Sanheim 22, Ekholm 23, Josi 21, Ellis wasn't full time until 22, Lindell 22, Krug 22, Hjalmarsson 22, Spurgeon 21, Savard 23, Nate Schmidt 23. Ryan Pulock was 23. There are plenty of guys who make it at 21 and younger, but there are tons who make it at 22 and later.

Liljegren has 1st round pedigree and is the best player on his AHL team as a 21 year old. Based purely on his toolset and current abilities, he's progressing on a completely reasonable development curve for a top4 defender. He probably won't ever be as good as most or any of the guys I listed, but the point is that young defenders with legitimate top4 upside quite obviously have value. In an earlier comment of mine, I said that he was "debatably" a top prospect. I don't think he would be a centrepiece for a player like Forsberg either. But the point stands that you should understand why he would have value to both the Leafs and teams around the league. Defensemen develop slower than forwards and while fans often forget that, there's a reason that most of the guys on my list weren't traded as prospects.

 

[wonton15]

Brandon Sutter for 3C?

not sure how the cap would work but realistically would take anything for him.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

The Leafs have a very strong farm system probably the best among playoff teams, and close to top 10 overall

Canes have a clear cut better farm system than Toronto. Philly, Montreal, Winnipeg, Florida, Colorado, and Edmonton all arguably have better farms too

 

[Predsanddead24]

Kyle Dubas is willing to include a top prospect in A trade, that does not imply he wants to include them in the rental trade, nor does it imply that he will not.

See you get it now. I responded to what you originally said which is that:

We won't be trading them for rentals or guys who we're going to let walk as UFA's in the next 16 months.

I'm not saying he will trade a top prospect for a rental, but it is a possibility unlike what you originally stated.

I don't know what the hell your point is surrounding cheeseburgers but sure.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

What does the Leafs need to be able to go all the way? They look damn good as it is...

Refer to Tampa’s 19/20 trade deadline

 

[David Suzuki]

Muzzin was 23. Jake Gardiner was 21, Pesce 21, Josh Manson 24, Travis Sanheim 22, Ekholm 23, Josi 21, Ellis wasn't full time until 22, Lindell 22, Krug 22, Hjalmarsson 22, Spurgeon 21, Savard 23, Nate Schmidt 23. Ryan Pulock was 23. There are plenty of guys who make it at 21 and younger, but there are tons who make it at 22 and later.

Which one of these guys were considered top prospects?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

What top prospects