Dressing Sheep in Wolves Clothing (Mod Warning page 35)

[Fenian24]

The two bolded points above are the key, IMO.

I know there aren't any Lucic's or Maroon's floating around the AHL, waiting to be scooped up for a 3rd rounder, but there has to be a few guys that can offer as much as a Kuraly, but can also fight and intimidate as well.

Max McCormick, Joseph Cramarossa or Curtis McKenzieare all AHL/NHL Tweeners/AAAA guys who can produce in the minors and while not heavyweights are tough, willing to fight and hit and can play a bit.

 

[BruinDust]

Yup B's with 7 and 5 of those 7 are from the D. Belesky and Schaller only forwards to drop gloves.

Again if you are going to play your 12th forward three minutes I would prefer he hits, fights and brings energy.

Problem is, how long can you go with the 12th F only playing 3-5 mins a game?

 

[Over the volcano]

It's absolutely a need and the kind of need that leads players like Beleskey to get the deals they do. I really don't know why they keep him out of the line up completely and White in PTO limbo while guys like Kuraly (who I like) struggles mightily.

Hell any one of Agostino, Vatrano, Kuraly, Schaller (and their combined 2 Schaller goals) could get a night off against the more physical teams so that White or Beleskey could fill some of that void.


Side note - DeBrusk is legit.

 

[Fenian24]

Problem is, how long can you go with the 12th F only playing 3-5 mins a game?

That's a totally different question. Who is to blame here, the players who Cassidy has no faith in, Sweeney for not giving him a player he can play for more time than that, Cassidy for not using and developing a young player?

As the spot is currently being used I would prefer a traditional 4th line hitter to an AHL MVP or any of the other options being used there.

 

[EverettMike]

Looks like the new forum has the same glitch as the old one, where the exact same post gets restarted year after year as a new thread.

 

[Over the volcano]

Looks like the new forum has the same glitch as the old one, where the exact same post gets restarted year after year as a new thread.

Think the glitch might be with the team's management year after year.

 

[bb_fan]

All I know is McQuaid is a warrior who played 13 Cup finals games and never looked out of place

Screw White

I'll take McQuaid and Miller and Chara to set tone around the net

I'm more excited to see Heinen then worry about having our manhood questioned

The game has changed and the Bruins defense is as physical enough for me

good, the D has a nice blend of toughness and skill.

the forwards don't.

the game has changed. Goons are out.

Tough, physical hockey is still in though.

the Forwards are as soft as charmin when it comes to hitting and the rough stuff.

being able to take a punch isn't in question. being able to deliver one is.

and you don't want the D coming in from the blue line all the time to 'stick up' for the Heinens and lose the offensive zone face off.

 

[Root]

I would like to add some skilled toughness to the bottom 6 but before we do that I would like to see Sweeney make some moves and clear out some of the dead weight/guys that have not earned a spot. We have a ton of left shot wingers on the roster and in the system. Not all of them are going to be able to play, Sweeney needs to identify the guys he thinks can contribute the most at the NHL level and move on from the rest. Bjork, Heinen and DeBrusk have earned their spots for now. And I've been happy with Schaller.

So that leaves Vatrano, Agostino, Kuraly, Beleskey and Spooner. Spooner needs to be traded once he is cleared to play. I like Kuraly but he might need more time in Providence. Agostino might just be an AHL player. Beleskey we might just be stuck with unless Sweeney can get creative. Vatrano I like but he hasn't won a job and may just be the odd man out.

One guy that can add some size and toughness and is also a right hand shot is Brett Ritchie in Dallas. He is struggling this year but scored 16 goals last season and was a goal scorer in Juniors and the AHL. Maybe a Vatrano for Ritchie trade would work? Both guys need change of scenery.

When Healthy...

Marchand-Bergeron-Bjork
DeBrusk-Krejci-Pasta
Heinen-Backes-Ritchie
Schaller-Nash-Acciari/White

 

[LouJersey]

good, the D has a nice blend of toughness and skill.

the forwards don't.

the game has changed. Goons are out.

Tough, physical hockey is still in though.

the Forwards are as soft as charmin when it comes to hitting and the rough stuff.

being able to take a punch isn't in question. being able to deliver one is.

and you don't want the D coming in from the blue line all the time to 'stick up' for the Heinens and lose the offensive zone face off.

You do realize there have only been ten fights all season that involved forward vs forward, yes? There have been thirty one fights between a forward vs a defenseman.

 

[b in vancouver]

He gets absolutely brutal deployment without getting completely caved in 5v5 in addition to being a pretty good PK and faceoff guy. I think that makes him a good 4th line C, he has just received too many minutes at times due to Bergeron/Krejci being out.

I think the amount of DZ draws he takes and still manages okay results helps the team a ton as it frees up the Marchand/Bergeron duo a bit. I think if you take him away the team loses an important piece as Marchand/Bergeron would be saddled with more DZ starts and that line is Boston's best offensive threat.

Agree. This is part of the crux of my argument of why I prefer having a few stable unspectacular but defensively aware vets on the 3rd and 4th lines that can kill penalties. Usually any extra offence you get by having kids that want to work their way up the line-up, you often lose more by having your top players having to take more d-zone draws and spend more time on the p.k. I also worry about the team getting hemmed in their own zone as it wears the d-men out pretty quickly.

Ideally I'd like a bit more grit on those two lines, to dictate the play a bit more and wear out the other teams d-men with some hits, scrums, drop the gloves every once in awhile and forecheck. Any goals are gravy.

I have no problem with Nash in the bottom six. With injuries to Bergeron, Krejci and Spooner, he's been asked to punch above his weight class and looks a bit exposed because of it - but if you have a 4th line centre you can trust taking a d-zone face-off, is comfortable playing 8-10 minutes a night and is pretty good on the p.k. and shows up every shift. - that valuable.

 

[NDiesel]

The only problem, which I posted in another thread a while back, is that no one is going to fight a guy like Reaves after throwing a dirty hit, unless the guy who throws that hit is also giant. If a Bjorkstrand hits Krug from behind, he isn't going to fight a Ryan White, a Ryan Reaves, a Kevan Miller. He will only MAYBE fight someone his size and skill. If Torey Krug was the one who hit Anderson from behind, do you think he drops the gloves against Anderson? No, but since Chara is huge of course he will answer the bell. Unless a goon throws a hit, the person isn't going to fight another goon

The only thing that having a 12th forward who can fight will do is give us an instigator penalty just like Miller got last night, and put us short handed. Like it or not, that's the way the league is going.

 

[Fenian24]

The only problem, which I posted in another thread a while back, is that no one is going to fight a guy like Reaves after throwing a dirty hit, unless the guy who throws that hit is also giant. If a Bjorkstrand hits Krug from behind, he isn't going to fight a Ryan White, a Ryan Reaves, a Kevan Miller. He will only MAYBE fight someone his size and skill. If Torey Krug was the one who hit Anderson from behind, do you think he drops the gloves against Anderson? No, but since Chara is huge of course he will answer the bell.

The only thing that having a 12th forward who can fight will do is give us an instigator penalty just like Miller got last night, and put us short handed. Like it or not, that's the way the league is going.

Do you disagree with Millers actions last night? I feel he did exactly what he had to do. For all the stupid slashing and interference penalties the league is giving out in it's effort to make the league non contact I have no problem with Miller sending a message and getting an instigator last night. What is ridiculous is he got 27 minutes for throwing three punches, I'm sorry turtling to get a power play or because you are afraid is not hockey. If you want to throw an iffy hit on a much smaller player you need to be ready to fight, wheter the league likes it or not.

Krug fought Chris Stewart I think he would go with Anderson.

 

[bb_fan]

You do realize there have only been ten fights all season that involved forward vs forward, yes? There have been thirty one fights between a forward vs a defenseman.

and that has what to do with anything?

fights typically involve a forward a defenseman.

sounds like proof enough to add a forward or two who fit that mold.

 

[LouJersey]

and that has what to do with anything?

fights typically involve a forward a defenseman.

sounds like proof enough to add a forward or two who fit that mold.

Why? We have three defensemen that are our best fighters, so you would rather our forwards fight defensemen than our defensemen fight their forwards? Which forward fighters are you going to add and which forwards are you sitting? Ryan White is one, who sucks at fighting btw, who is the other? You also realize that over 70% of the league has 3 or less scraps this year? 14 teams have 2 or less.

 

[Salem13]

Why? We have three defensemen that are our best fighters, so you would rather our forwards fight defensemen than our defensemen fight their forwards? Which forward fighters are you going to add and which forwards are you sitting? Ryan White is one, who sucks at fighting btw, who is the other? You also realize that over 70% of the league has 3 or less scraps this year? 14 teams have 2 or less.

The want isnt for fights, it's to have someone who can hold the other team accountable.

When the other teams D runs our forwards we cannot have our D making the point, it dont work.

You need a forward who can come in and bangs their D and be willing. As much as he tries Pasta isnt going to fill that role.

 

[NDiesel]

Do you disagree with Millers actions last night? I feel he did exactly what he had to do. For all the stupid slashing and interference penalties the league is giving out in it's effort to make the league non contact I have no problem with Miller sending a message and getting an instigator last night. What is ridiculous is he got 27 minutes for throwing three punches, I'm sorry turtling to get a power play or because you are afraid is not hockey. If you want to throw an iffy hit on a much smaller player you need to be ready to fight, wheter the league likes it or not.

Krug fought Chris Stewart I think he would go with Anderson.

I'd feel much better about what Kevan Miller did if we came out with a PP, unfortunately we end up shorthanded in a close game. Sure it sends a point, but do we care about winning games or making a point to other teams? Obviously they didn't score on the ensuing PP, but had they it would have been game over and loss of a point....we all know what it feels like to miss the playoffs by one point.

Standing up for players is big, especially when they are one of the core players. And I agree with you, 27 minutes is ridiculous for that play, but that's how it is in 2017, like it or not, and it could have cost us the game.

I'm all for adding a guy who can play and fight and hit....but those guys are very rare and cost a lot of assets. Most teams aren't looking to trade away guys like that either, so drafting them is the best way to get them.

 

[Over the volcano]

I'd feel much better about what Kevan Miller did if we came out with a PP, unfortunately we end up shorthanded in a close game. Sure it sends a point, but do we care about winning games or making a point to other teams? Obviously they didn't score on the ensuing PP, but had they it would have been game over and loss of a point....we all know what it feels like to miss the playoffs by one point.

Standing up for players is big, especially when they are one of the core players. And I agree with you, 27 minutes is ridiculous for that play, but that's how it is in 2017, like it or not, and it could have cost us the game.

I'm all for adding a guy who can play and fight and hit....but those guys are very rare and lost a lot of assets. Most teams aren't looking to trade away guys like that either, so drafting them is the best way to get them.

I never understood that about the "instigator". Best way to instigate a fight is to board someone. Hell, that’s why Chara ran Anderson last night.
They've got the incentives and punishments all backwards.

 

[DKH]

good, the D has a nice blend of toughness and skill.

the forwards don't.

the game has changed. Goons are out.

Tough, physical hockey is still in though.

the Forwards are as soft as charmin when it comes to hitting and the rough stuff.

being able to take a punch isn't in question. being able to deliver one is.

and you don't want the D coming in from the blue line all the time to 'stick up' for the Heinens and lose the offensive zone face off.

4-5 kids by end of year

Bjork
DeBrusk
Heinen
Cehlarik
JFK
Vatrano

4-5 core/vets

Bergeron
Krejci
Pastrnak
Marchand
Backes

4-5 4th line types

Nash
Acciari
Kuraly
Schaller

Where do you put a fighter who can win a fight

 

[BruinDust]

4-5 kids by end of year

Bjork
DeBrusk
Heinen
Cehlarik
JFK
Vatrano

4-5 core/vets

Bergeron
Krejci
Pastrnak
Marchand
Backes

4-5 4th line types

Nash
Acciari
Kuraly
Schaller

Where do you put a fighter who can win a fight

Easy.

Send Kuraly to Providence (where he belongs right now anyways)

Finally put an end to the failed experiment that is Riley Nash.

But under Sweeney there is no hope of Nash going away.

At least they sent Agostino down today. Baby steps.

Fingers crossed we've seen the last of Kenny Agostino in a Boston Bruins uniform.

 

[Kalus]

Easy.

Send Kuraly to Providence (where he belongs right now anyways)

Finally put an end to the failed experiment that is Riley Nash.

But under Sweeney there is no hope of Nash going away.

At least they sent Agostino down today. Baby steps.

Fingers crossed we've seen the last of Kenny Agostino in a Boston Bruins uniform.

Sending Kuraly to Providence to sharpen up his game is a good idea. Assuming he gets his game straight and comes back, he and Acciari together would bring an adequate “tough to play against” element. Blidh could probably fill in when one of those guys is out. And who knows, maybe Beleskey finds a way to be marginally effective and adds some more physicality.

There just aren’t many Shawn Thornton types out there. Teams arent going to give those guys up without meaningful overpayment, I think.

Honest question: if the above works, is Schaller necessary? Not sure if he brings enough when the roster gets crowded. I think he has a place in the league but maybe not on this team given the bottom six options.

I think Schaller has been trying to play above his skill level this year. Probably not his fault considering that he’s being asked to play top six for some games, but I think he is best served playing a pure 4th line role.

 

[BruinDust]

Sending Kuraly to Providence to sharpen up his game is a good idea. Assuming he gets his game straight and comes back, he and Acciari together would bring an adequate “tough to play against” element. Blidh could probably fill in when one of those guys is out. And who knows, maybe Beleskey finds a way to be marginally effective and adds some more physicality.

There just aren’t many Shawn Thornton types out there. Teams arent going to give those guys up without meaningful overpayment, I think.

Honest question: if the above works, is Schaller necessary? Not sure if he brings enough when the roster gets crowded. I think he has a place in the league but maybe not on this team given the bottom six options.

I think Schaller has been trying to play above his skill level this year. Probably not his fault considering that he’s being asked to play top six for some games, but I think he is best served playing a pure 4th line role.

He is, let him center the 4th line.

Schaller is the only one of the "4th line guys" that has earned his keep this year. The rest have flat out stunk.

I don't care if we ever see Sean Kuraly again. Blidh can stay down there too.

Acciari should be a spare forward and nothing more.

 

[Seidenbergy]

The want isnt for fights, it's to have someone who can hold the other team accountable.

When the other teams D runs our forwards we cannot have our D making the point, it dont work.

You need a forward who can come in and bangs their D and be willing. As much as he tries Pasta isnt going to fill that role.

There is only one deterrent that teams understand IMO. Scoring. Want to keep teams from running guys or at least make a team pay for running guys? Score on the resulting power play. Having a roster full of tough guys doesn't do it. Just look at the history of the Bs. Some of the biggest, strongest Bs teams that could fight with the best of them still had guys getting run left and right. "Sticking up for teammates, etc." is good for the locker room, the media and message boards, but it doesn't really work if deterrence is your goal.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

With the evolving use of McAvoy, how would you line-up the D when McQuaid is healthy?

McAvoy looks like he is now the No.1 D, if based on ice-time if nothing else.

Miller looks way more comfortable on the right side than he does the left.

Which one of Carlo or McQuaid do you move to their off-side of Miller?

While it's extremely exciting to see the kid play 30 mins 2 games in a row and look good doing it, I would be careful about drawing too many conclusions from it. He's still not really killing penalties and both games features OTs where he is obviously going to be heavily used. They also had some guys miss shifts in the last game due to injuries & penalties so Charlie's numbers were inflated. When McAvoy is regularly killing penalties in addition to his current minutes then we can talk about him being the number 1 D on this team. With that said, it's wild how close he is already.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Why? We have three defensemen that are our best fighters, so you would rather our forwards fight defensemen than our defensemen fight their forwards? Which forward fighters are you going to add and which forwards are you sitting? Ryan White is one, who sucks at fighting btw, who is the other? You also realize that over 70% of the league has 3 or less scraps this year? 14 teams have 2 or less.

this. In today's NHL fighting does nothing. It doesn't act as a deterrent. It just doesn't. And in some cases it hurts you because you can end up shorthanded even if your guy is just sticking up for a teammate who got boarded. I think fighting does more to boost your own team than it does to affect your opponent. Guys will play harder for each other if they know teammates have their backs, but I don't think there's a fighter in the league today who scares any opposing player into changing their game at all. Maybe Lucic when he snaps. Maybe Reaves. The list is extremely short at best.

Now hitting on the other hand still absolutely has its place and I would definitely be OK with the Bruins getting more hitting out of their forward corps. With that said, Acciari is our best hitting forward and has been injured so it's tough to judge the roster overall in that respect right now. Backes & Beleskey are supposed to bring that too. Beleskey hasn't been playing & Backes is kind of inconsistent. Some nights it seems like he's just chasing & others he's running guys over around the net. I wish he could bring that more consistently but I get that it's hard to do 82 games a year.

As for how all this effects the team, I saw @dafoomie on twitter after the Kings game arguing that the Bruins shrunk in the face of the Kings' physical game, but I didn't see that at all. Yeah maybe the Kings got the better of a lot of the hitting game, but it didn't seem to deter the Bruins. It was a super tightly contested game whistle-to-whistle that ended on a crazy fluke of a goal. The Kings hitting certainly isn't what won them that game, just my opinion anyway.

So yes, i'd like to see the Bruins do more hitting, but don't think that's the same as saying they need a fighter (they don't IMO). I think as long as they have one or two forwards who are willing to fight that's all that matters. I don't think having guys who can win fights makes a big difference. And for the cases where you absolutely, positively have to send a message we have McQuaid, Miller, & Chara.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

While it's extremely exciting to see the kid play 30 mins 2 games in a row and look good doing it, I would be careful about drawing too many conclusions from it. He's still not really killing penalties and both games features OTs where he is obviously going to be heavily used. They also had some guys miss shifts in the last game due to injuries & penalties so Charlie's numbers were inflated. When McAvoy is regularly killing penalties in addition to his current minutes then we can talk about him being the number 1 D on this team. With that said, it's wild how close he is already.

When the Bruins are playing from behind all night, McAvoy (like Krug) will get big minutes.