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Draft Pick # 8 - Center and LW, William Nylander, Modo, Part 2

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7even

7even

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SarcazemKadri said:
It would be a stretch to pull positives out of a season in the CHL for Nylander.

You're arguing for the sake of it, lol.
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You're arguing that the SHL is miles ahead of the CHL as a development league, and yet there exists no talent gap between prospects from the SHL and the CHL. Why?

Durrr said:
Not really? How would that be any more beneficial then a full season + playoff run with a league full of men? You know the Marlies will be making another run, why make him take a step backwards?
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The kid's not just going to be handed ice time. Again, I think "playing against men" is getting a lot more weight than it should beyond proving he can hold his own against larger players.
 
ACC1224

ACC1224

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TheCLAM said:
Too bad Mississauga is a bottom-5 team in the OHL, they will be pretty bad this season.
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Obviously a trade is assumed.

Durrr said:
Not really? How would that be any more beneficial then a full season + playoff run with a league full of men? You know the Marlies will be making another run, why make him take a step backwards?
Click to expand...

I don't know enough about him to know if this is a step backwards.
Would he be the goto big minute guy on these Men's Teams?

I'm not saying this would be the best place for him but it certainly wouldn't hurt.
 

Durrr

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7even said:
You're arguing that the SHL is miles ahead of the CHL as a development league, and yet there exists no talent gap between prospects from the SHL and the CHL. Why?



The kid's not just going to be handed ice time. Again, I think "playing against men" is getting a lot more weight than it should beyond proving he can hold his own against larger players.
Click to expand...

How is playing against professionals not worthy of more weight then teenagers? Proving he can hold his own against larger player (and thus forcing him to get larger) is only one aspect of the benefits. This is a pro hockey league vs a developmental league, is that not enough? It's like arguing a baseball player is good enough for AAA baseball, after already playing AA the year prior, but lets send him to rookie ball for the hell of it.

Furthermore, he got drafted to the Steelheads, so yes he would be handed icetime on a bottom 5 OHL team, playing with players a lot less talented then him. Not only is he able to learn from Pros in the AHL/SEL, but likley has a chance at a real playoff run, where he will likley not find that on the SteelHeads.
 

Durrr

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ACC1224 said:
Obviously a trade is assumed.



I don't know enough about him to know if this is a step backwards.
Would he be the goto big minute guy on these Men's Teams?

I'm not saying this would be the best place for him but it certainly wouldn't hurt.
Click to expand...

He certainly showed he belongs in the SEL last year, maybe he won't be a first line go to player, but if we want him to develop as a center again then I see no problem getting 2/3 line center minutes.

A large knock against Nylander at the draft was the fact that he is a puck hog, who thinks he can get it done by himself. How could putting him on a bottom 5 OHL team with teenagers possibly help this downside to his game?
 
ACC1224

ACC1224

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Durrr said:
He certainly showed he belongs in the SEL last year, maybe he won't be a first line go to player, but if we want him to develop as a center again then I see no problem getting 2/3 line center minutes.

A large knock against Nylander at the draft was the fact that he is a puck hog, who thinks he can get it done by himself. How could putting him on a bottom 5 OHL team with teenagers possibly help this downside to his game?
Click to expand...

Good points.

I would think the Leafs would have less control of his development in the SEL.
 
theIceWookie

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Durrr said:
How is playing against professionals not worthy of more weight then teenagers? Proving he can hold his own against larger player (and thus forcing him to get larger) is only one aspect of the benefits. This is a pro hockey league vs a developmental league, is that not enough? It's like arguing a baseball player is good enough for AAA baseball, after already playing AA the year prior, but lets send him to rookie ball for the hell of it.

Furthermore, he got drafted to the Steelheads, so yes he would be handed icetime on a bottom 5 OHL team, playing with players a lot less talented then him. Not only is he able to learn from Pros in the AHL/SEL, but likley has a chance at a real playoff run, where he will likley not find that on the SteelHeads.
Click to expand...

Just because you are good enough to play against men doesn't mean you should. It's similar reasoning to why prospects get sent down the AHL when they arguably could play in the NHL, just at a reduced rate on a lower line.

CHL offers more ice time, reduced schedule which will allow him to play in the Juniors against the best of his age, plus time to add more muscle mass and strength, the guaranteed opportunity of being a center etc. Plus if the Steelheads don't make the playoffs, he can just sign an ATO and play on a Marlies run. Gets a playoff run.

This issue is being way blown out of proportion
 
theIceWookie

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Durrr said:
He certainly showed he belongs in the SEL last year, maybe he won't be a first line go to player, but if we want him to develop as a center again then I see no problem getting 2/3 line center minutes.

A large knock against Nylander at the draft was the fact that he is a puck hog, who thinks he can get it done by himself. How could putting him on a bottom 5 OHL team with teenagers possibly help this downside to his game?
Click to expand...

That "knock" was by put forth by people who had little actually insight into his game and didn't realize the difference between a team running plays through him compared to being a puck hog. It's a non issue.
 

Pholus

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ACC1224 said:
Obviously a trade is assumed.
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Since he was just taken in this years import draft, his rights can't be traded, so if he plays in the CHL it has to be for Mississauga.

I know everyone is talking about AHL vs SHL, but what if he goes back to Sweden and plays in the Allsvenskan (2nd division)? He had pretty good production there this year, and on many of the teams he would have a decent chance of earning a position at center on a scoring line (ex. AIK only has 3 centers on their roster atm)
 
ACC1224

ACC1224

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Pholus said:
Since he was just taken in this years import draft, his rights can't be traded, so if he plays in the CHL it has to be for Mississauga.
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I didn't realize that. He has to play the entire year there?
 
Beleafer4

Beleafer4

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Nylander dominated Allsvenskan last year so I think there's no point going to the CHL.

For me its either the SHL (to dominate that league) or AHL (to get acclimated to NA ice).

Personally, I would place Nylander in the SEL and once that's over, help the marlies in their playoff run. Then next year start him in the A and have him as a top 6 call up option.
 

Durrr

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Beleafer4 said:
Nylander dominated Allsvenskan last year so I think there's no point going to the CHL.

For me its either the SHL (to dominate that league) or AHL (to get acclimated to NA ice).

Personally, I would place Nylander in the SEL and once that's over, help the marlies in their playoff run. Then next year start him in the A and have him as a top 6 call up option.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan to me, I agree with the first sentence as well, absolutely no point in going to the CHL.

Only reason I'd advocate the AHL is if MLSE wants full control over his development (eg making a concrete decision on where they want him to play)
 
Sundinisagod

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Durrr said:
He certainly showed he belongs in the SEL last year, maybe he won't be a first line go to player, but if we want him to develop as a center again then I see no problem getting 2/3 line center minutes.

A large knock against Nylander at the draft was the fact that he is a puck hog, who thinks he can get it done by himself. How could putting him on a bottom 5 OHL team with teenagers possibly help this downside to his game?
Click to expand...

Of all the options, he's least likely to play centre in the SHL. In the AHL, we had Kadri playing wing earlier on so that may not be any better, in the OHL I think he's most likely to be used a centre...though we'd have no actual control over that outside the A.
 
Sundinisagod

Sundinisagod

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Menzinger said:
So the only real argument for the CHL is more icetime?
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More likely to play centre.

That's the biggest (but not only) real argument for the CHL.

Sam Bennett will likely be in the CHL this upcoming season, it's not like Nylander is considered ahead of him in his development.
 
TheCLAM

TheCLAM

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Sundinisagod said:
More likely to play centre.

That's the biggest (but not only) real argument for the CHL.

Sam Bennett will likely be in the CHL this upcoming season, it's not like Nylander is considered ahead of him in his development.
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The SteelHeads are an awful team.. It wouldn't be worth it for him to be the most talent players, with no one to play with.
 

Durrr

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Sundinisagod said:
Of all the options, he's least likely to play centre in the SHL. In the AHL, we had Kadri playing wing earlier on so that may not be any better, in the OHL I think he's most likely to be used a centre...though we'd have no actual control over that outside the A.
Click to expand...

No one should be using Kadri's development as a example, as it was handled quite horribly. The organization knows it is in need of quality centers, so we likley see him start at C in the AHL if they think hes cut out for it.
 
7even

7even

Offered and lost
Feb 1, 2012
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theIceWookie said:
Just because you are good enough to play against men doesn't mean you should. It's similar reasoning to why prospects get sent down the AHL when they arguably could play in the NHL, just at a reduced rate on a lower line.

CHL offers more ice time, reduced schedule which will allow him to play in the Juniors against the best of his age, plus time to add more muscle mass and strength, the guaranteed opportunity of being a center etc. Plus if the Steelheads don't make the playoffs, he can just sign an ATO and play on a Marlies run. Gets a playoff run.

This issue is being way blown out of proportion
Click to expand...

Way out of proportion. They're all good options.
 
TheCLAM

TheCLAM

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Sundinisagod

Sundinisagod

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Durrr said:
No one should be using Kadri's development as a example, as it was handled quite horribly. The organization knows it is in need of quality centers, so we likley see him start at C in the AHL if they think hes cut out for it.
Click to expand...

Well it wasn't that long ago, so it wouldn't shock me to see recent history repeat itself.
 
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