Value of: Doughty to Toronto

[LAKings88]

Next year is huge for LA.

The last three years have been tough but I still think they are a very good team. Probably in the playoffs had Quick been in nets all year.

A new coach and adjusted system could be exactly what they need.

They graduated five rookies last year. Three solid defenseman.

Trim some fat and trade a dman for a scorer and they could be contenders again.

If they can't turn it around after next year, then these kinds of discussions in this thread make more sense.

 

[NEWFowler]

Why would a very young team trade a franchise winger and young 1d for a 27-year-old?

What did I just read? Doughty will probably play at an elite level until 35. 27 is YOUNG.

 

[Seventyx7]

Keeping Doughty at all costs should be the absolutely priority. He is irreplaceable.

That said, if he's indicating that he isn't open to re-signing, all options have to be on the table. How much more value is he going to return with two full seasons remaining @ $7M than Shattenkirk-style as an impending UFA? His trade value is probably top 5 in the entire league at this moment. If he is going to walk for nothing, it has to be considered.

Hopefully this is all pointless and the Kings are the only team he ever plays for.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

What did I just read? Doughty will probably play at an elite level until 35. 27 is YOUNG.

Especially since his game isn't predicated on physical gifts.

 

[Rorschach]

The only way Toronto could make a deal that makes sense and offer enough value is if they miss the playoffs next year and get lucky again with the 2018 #1 OA pick, and LA decides to blow it up. Then you could package the pick for DD8.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think the only reasonable deals would be...

Matthews/Doughty
Doughty+Brown for Marner or Nylander

Agreed, and Brown may end up On Robidas Island, .....any update on lupul

 

[Jericho111091]

LA has no desire to trade Doughty, and I doubt Toronto would be willing to pay the price needed to convince them to.

 

[headwire]

Toronto is not in "win-now" mode, so it wouldn't make sense to give up the assets that it would require to acquire Doughty, let alone the fact that LA is not in a situation where they need to trade him as part of any re-build or re-tool.

It seems to me that it makes much more sense for Toronto to continue the plan that they are executing really well (luck playing large part by landing the first overall pick in 2016). In 2 years, if defense is still a large requirement, consider signing Doughty as a free-agent, if he reaches that status.

 

[Cory Trevor]

Toronto is not in "win-now" mode, so it wouldn't make sense to give up the assets that it would require to acquire Doughty, let alone the fact that LA is not in a situation where they need to trade him as part of any re-build or re-tool.

It seems to me that it makes much more sense for Toronto to continue the plan that they are executing really well (luck playing large part by landing the first overall pick in 2016). In 2 years, if defense is still a large requirement, consider signing Doughty as a free-agent, if he reaches that status.

By far the most realistic thing said here. They'll have to overpay for him at that point(if he even gets to free agency) but still will be under 30. Youd be paying for a guy who has already won everything and is entering his prime.

 

[member 157595]

LA has no desire to trade Doughty, and I doubt Toronto would be willing to pay the price needed to convince them to.

By far the best summary of the situation, and you only needed 1 sentence to do so. You're absolutely right.

 

[colchar]

Maybe this is why Lebrun was fired from ESPN??

Because someone else created a fake Twitter account in his name?

 

[colchar]

Any Leafs fans saying they wouldn't do Marner/Nylander+1st + is crazy.

No they aren't. Nylander? Yeah probably. Marner? Nope.

But again, this isn't a real rumour.

 

[colchar]

Edmonton learned that you have to give good or even better value on paper to make your team better as a whole. Toronto will need to learn this lesson too, if they want to improve from without.

Um, do you think that Lou is a rookie GM or something?

 

[xxreact9]

not sure this qualifies as speculation without a link, though I've heard some of the same drive time filler


The price for Doughty in terms of trade pieces would be very harmful to the future of this franchise, takes at least one of the major building blocks and probably 2

Here we go again, this is ridiculous. "cant break up the big 3 for a defender sorry"

If instantaneously filling a gigantic need the franchise has had for literally 15 years and finally ending the goalie scapegoat paradox in Toronto is "very harmful to the future of the franchise" then up is officially down.

How about the window never exists because their defense is absolutely terrible (it really is, in every way of measuring it)? There is nothing in the farm or from free agency that will add the player they need. And it wont magically happen either.

FYI, Drew Doughty even with 2 years left would cost SIGNIFICANTLY more than simply 1 of Marner or Nylander. Like a LOT more.

This is a top-5 defenseman of his generation. I really didn't think leaf nation could sink lower, but they have sunk to the lowest here. "cant split up the big 3"

The only reason to not be interested in Doughty is that LA is obviously not trading him. Whoever is dropping that "can't split up the big 3" line when Drew Absolute Doughty is coming back, you need a lot of education in the sport.

Without Marner or Nylander, or even both, their offense is still really good. Their defense however, is bad and will remain bad. It's been in the bottom 5 of the league in every defensive metric (goals, shot suppression, whatever you want) nearly every season for 10+ years. This is ASTOUNDING, especially because the fanbase hardly ever acknowledged it, just blaming the goalie instead until the 15th different goalie came into town they began to realize hmm, maybe our D sucks and always has sucked.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Here we go again, this is ridiculous. "cant break up the big 3 for a defender sorry"

If instantaneously filling a gigantic need the franchise has had for literally 15 years and finally ending the goalie scapegoat paradox in Toronto is "very harmful to the future of the franchise" then up is officially down.

How about the window never exists because their defense is absolutely terrible (it really is, in every way of measuring it)? There is nothing in the farm or from free agency that will add the player they need. And it wont magically happen either.

FYI, Drew Doughty even with 2 years left would cost SIGNIFICANTLY more than simply 1 of Marner or Nylander. Like a LOT more.

This is a top-5 defenseman of his generation. I really didn't think leaf nation could sink lower, but they have sunk to the lowest here. "cant split up the big 3"

The only reason to not be interested in Doughty is that LA is obviously not trading him. Whoever is dropping that "can't split up the big 3" line when Drew Absolute Doughty is coming back, you need a lot of education in the sport.

Without Marner or Nylander, or even both, their offense is still really good. Their defense however, is bad and will remain bad. It's been in the bottom 5 of the league in every defensive metric (goals, shot suppression, whatever you want) nearly every season for 10+ years. This is ASTOUNDING, especially because the fanbase hardly ever acknowledged it, just blaming the goalie instead until the 15th different goalie came into town they began to realize hmm, maybe our D sucks and always has sucked.

maybe the username should be xxoverreact9

you'll notice that I said in the post you quoted "it costs at least 1 of the building blocks, probably 2"

It wasn't long ago that Toronto was missing a top line center and really needed it to compete, and fell short of being competitive.

It wasn't long before that that Toronto had a top line center, but didn't have the complimentary offense for him to play with, and fell short of being competitive.

During both of those eras, goaltending was also an issue.

Toronto now has a top 5 NHL offense that carried them to a playoff appearance the year after finishing last, that is likely to improve and found a goaltender who has lots of tread left on his tires who looks like a legitimate NHL starter.

There is ZERO (hey, I can randomly capitalize words for effect, how bout that) pressure on this management group to rush at being a contender.

Why pull a finger or two out of the dam to fill the one obvious hole that remains when there's no pressure to do so, and especially when we've recently had a version of the team that lacks the pieces that we'd have to give up knowing that they weren't good enough?

 

[namttebih]

How about 4 1st's?

What could go wrong?

 

[4thline]

Re-visit in a year.

either have the opportunity to negotiate re-signing terms before committing to that kings ransom (too much risk to do it now, the aftermath of that trade if Doughty walked in two years in the Age of the Prospect would be unfathomable) or be negotiating the deal with the costs associated with a rental/FA leverage

 

[Liferleafer]

Because someone else created a fake Twitter account in his name?

You dragged this thread back to point out that you missed my joke?

 

[Liferleafer]

Here we go again, this is ridiculous. "cant break up the big 3 for a defender sorry"

If instantaneously filling a gigantic need the franchise has had for literally 15 years and finally ending the goalie scapegoat paradox in Toronto is "very harmful to the future of the franchise" then up is officially down.

How about the window never exists because their defense is absolutely terrible (it really is, in every way of measuring it)? There is nothing in the farm or from free agency that will add the player they need. And it wont magically happen either.

FYI, Drew Doughty even with 2 years left would cost SIGNIFICANTLY more than simply 1 of Marner or Nylander. Like a LOT more.

This is a top-5 defenseman of his generation. I really didn't think leaf nation could sink lower, but they have sunk to the lowest here. "cant split up the big 3"

The only reason to not be interested in Doughty is that LA is obviously not trading him. Whoever is dropping that "can't split up the big 3" line when Drew Absolute Doughty is coming back, you need a lot of education in the sport.

Without Marner or Nylander, or even both, their offense is still really good. Their defense however, is bad and will remain bad. It's been in the bottom 5 of the league in every defensive metric (goals, shot suppression, whatever you want) nearly every season for 10+ years. This is ASTOUNDING, especially because the fanbase hardly ever acknowledged it, just blaming the goalie instead until the 15th different goalie came into town they began to realize hmm, maybe our D sucks and always has sucked.

You're absolutely right....our defense is the worst in the league. Not even close to the Kings stellar D group...as evidenced by the fact the Leafs didn't make the playoffs and the Kings are on a deep playoff run....

 

[Cult of Hynes]

You're absolutely right....our defense is the worst in the league. Not even close to the Kings stellar D group...as evidenced by the fact the Leafs didn't make the playoffs and the Kings are on a deep playoff run....

Leafs gave up 242 goals. The Kings only gave up 205 while only being able to score 201.

 

[go4hockey]

You're absolutely right....our defense is the worst in the league. Not even close to the Kings stellar D group...as evidenced by the fact the Leafs didn't make the playoffs and the Kings are on a deep playoff run....

Yep cause anyone with a brain and even knows what hockey is knows that defense is the reason the Kings missed the playoffs.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

maybe the username should be xxoverreact9

you'll notice that I said in the post you quoted "it costs at least 1 of the building blocks, probably 2"

It wasn't long ago that Toronto was missing a top line center and really needed it to compete, and fell short of being competitive.

It wasn't long before that that Toronto had a top line center, but didn't have the complimentary offense for him to play with, and fell short of being competitive.

During both of those eras, goaltending was also an issue.

Toronto now has a top 5 NHL offense that carried them to a playoff appearance the year after finishing last, that is likely to improve and found a goaltender who has lots of tread left on his tires who looks like a legitimate NHL starter.

There is ZERO (hey, I can randomly capitalize words for effect, how bout that) pressure on this management group to rush at being a contender.

Why pull a finger or two out of the dam to fill the one obvious hole that remains when there's no pressure to do so, and especially when we've recently had a version of the team that lacks the pieces that we'd have to give up knowing that they weren't good enough?

Because it's a whole hell of a lot easier to find complementary offensive pieces to build around an elite 1C and 1D than it is to find an elite 1D by wishing into an open hand.

Leafs gave up 242 goals. The Kings only gave up 205 while only being able to score 201.

Seriously.

And beyond that:

LA GA/60 With Doughty off the ice: 2.29 (would be good for 15th if they were a team)

Washington Capitals, best GA/60 team in the league: 1.75

LA GA/60 with Doughty ON the ice: 1.55

Doughty single-handedly solves just about every problem the Leafs have.

 

[Liferleafer]

Leafs gave up 242 goals. The Kings only gave up 205 while only being able to score 201.

Guys...it was a joke in response to a jab at the Leafs, relax, i know what the Leafs D is....but i still don't sell the farm for Doughty.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Doughty is incredible but this doesn't make any sense for the Leafs based on the cost.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Because it's a whole hell of a lot easier to find complementary offensive pieces to build around an elite 1C and 1D than it is to find an elite 1D by wishing into an open hand.

Complimentary pieces that are the caliber of what Marner and Nylander already are, let alone what they could be are easy to come by?

#1 defensemen actually are found after the 1st round regularly, more often than not actually (60% ish). I'll role the dice on filling the one obvious roster hole we have through means that won't gut the team of the pieces that have turned out as the future franchise building blocks. Doughty is a great player, and the leafs with him would be a scary proposition, but the leafs with him and without Marner and Nylander probably isn't a better team than what we are now