Management Don Sweeney VI

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

the 16th and the 33rd pick

Peter hasn't done so well since he's been with the oil in trying to acquire that #1 defenseman.

He traded Taylor Hall in hope Adam Larson would become one and he dealt The 16th pick (and the 33rd pick) in the 2015 draft for Griffin Reinhart, which of course turned out to be Mathew Barzal.

 

[KnightofBoston]

In 3-4 years Sweeney will be selling used cars in Burlington trying to explain his decisions as GM.

Quoted, noted, and bookmarked

 

[mar2kbos]

No one can deny that Sweeney did a really good job with prospects and developing young players. They are reaping the benefits. Imagine what this team would be like if he didn't draft well? Don't even want to think of it because his NHL scouting and free agent pickups have been below average at best. If he wants to cement himself as a great GM he needs both sides of the coin though. He needs a lot of work with trading and evaluating current NHL talent. Prospects are the base and its great, but its also the shrewd trades made at the deadline to bring in the right complement player(s) to give a better chance at the cup that also makes a GM. If he can get down he will be right up there with the best.

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

Sweeney took over being in cap hell and FA and agents new this and weren't targeting the Bruins.

Grant it the Belesky signing didn't turn out but I remember after the signing it didn't seem that ridiculous. The Backus signing is the length that hurts but I love what Backus brings to the team with his intangibles he does so much to help you win that doesn't show-up on the score sheet.

Basically the intelligent thing to do, was just what he did. Conquer the draft. He's done that trading for picks and hitting gold with Pasta and McAvoy.

He came in between a rock and hard place and I'm sure other GMs were trying to fleece him but no he didn't bite and make a panic move in trying to save the franchise in one big swoop. He done it the-right way through the draft, collecting assets and now he's in a position of strength.

 

[Number8]

Sweeney has done exactly what he said he'd do. Focus on youth and improve the cap mess we were in.

I like where this team is at right now and if, given where we are when Chia was jettisoned, you'd have told me we'd be where we are now, I'd have said sign me up.

We should have won another/more Cups in '72. Same for 2011. Water under bridge.

The "rebuild" has been pretty damn successful if you ask me.

 

[Krupp]

I mean, as a Jacksonville Jaguars fan, I can tell you all about nigthmare 'rebuilds' that turn out to be a facade...althoug cleveland has us beaten in that regard....

Seriously though. Sweeney has done a fine job. I won't say he's been terrific - he's made some trades I was really concerned about. Some of them, like the Hamilton trade - i'd say the jury is still out on. I think he's done the best with what was looking like a fairly bleak situation and turned lead into silver, if not gold

 

[DKH]

I mean, as a Jacksonville Jaguars fan, I can tell you all about nigthmare 'rebuilds' that turn out to be a facade...althoug cleveland has us beaten in that regard....

Seriously though. Sweeney has done a fine job. I won't say he's been terrific - he's made some trades I was really concerned about. Some of them, like the Hamilton trade - i'd say the jury is still out on. I think he's done the best with what was looking like a fairly bleak situation and turned lead into silver, if not gold

The Hamilton deal is just so ballsy in the end. If there is any justice the Bruins will hit on all 3 and Dougie will underachieve.

Chiarelli already got bent over in a way 2 times hint hint

 

[chizzler]

Barzal has what 29 pts in 25 games now?

He would be top three in scoring for the Bruins

His ability to hold the puck alone would open things up for others

Sweeney should have learned a valuable lesson when other teams messed up by , bypassing on the bpa (pasta)

Pick bpa always. Not positional need. Worry about the crowded house later

You forgot the other 12 teams that passed on him.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

You forgot the other 12 teams that passed on him.

No one else passed on him 3 times.

 

[LSCII]

Sweeney took over being in cap hell and FA and agents new this and weren't targeting the Bruins.

Grant it the Belesky signing didn't turn out but I remember after the signing it didn't seem that ridiculous. The Backus signing is the length that hurts but I love what Backus brings to the team with his intangibles he does so much to help you win that doesn't show-up on the score sheet.

Basically the intelligent thing to do, was just what he did. Conquer the draft. He's done that trading for picks and hitting gold with Pasta and McAvoy.

He came in between a rock and hard place and I'm sure other GMs were trying to fleece him but no he didn't bite and make a panic move in trying to save the franchise in one big swoop. He done it the-right way through the draft, collecting assets and now he's in a position of strength.

Sweeney came in after learning at the feet of Chia, and witnessed first hand how a bad trade or signing can negatively impact your cap situation. So what did he do? Rather than learn from that, he made the same mistakes. He moved a second round pick for a complete stiff in Rinaldo and signed Matt Beleskey coming off a career year to a long term deal. Both of those moves have been shown to be foolhardy. The rest of his trade history is a mixed bag at best.

He's done okay in the draft to this point, but the full details won't be known until we know how those picks truly develop. The jury is still effectively out, given that we've only seen a few kids for a short stint this season. There's more to come and how they turn out will go a long way to how he's viewed long term as the GM here.

Where he does get full credit for being aggressive and seemingly finding gems is the NCAA pool of free agents. He's done an excellent job in this area. Hopefully his picks will pan out like those signings have and we'll be well stocked for a prolonged cup run for years.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

The Hamilton deal is just so ballsy in the end. If there is any justice the Bruins will hit on all 3 and Dougie will underachieve.

Chiarelli already got bent over in a way 2 times hint hint

As a Bruins fan Hamilton was a very good player that I was OK with losing for futures. And relieved we weren't going to have to give 7 mil to. (Goodbye Torey Krug there is no room for you on the Bruins if we signed Dougie...I prefer Krug for the record.)

But even if we hit on all those picks Donny turned down a Phil Kessel 2.0 return not having the balls to let PC offer sheet him or cough up a return like Burke did. Dougie was brutal the first year away from Clode and Chara and Edmonton was brutal that year. We should have let him go there.

3 for 3 in the middle of 2015 sounds nice but you know what sounds better? 2 for 2 in 2016. Keller AND McAvoy? (Or Laine/Matthews etc.)



McAvoy and Carlo with the Boychuk pick are Sweeney's best moves. Sweeney might be unemployed RN for the 2015 draft if that years 2nd rounder had a stat line like Zboril in the AHL and wasn't playing 20 minutes a game in the bigs.

 

[DKH]

No one else passed on him 3 times.

I was at the Draft Party at the Garden and it was kind of crazy - lots of TVs and people chatting and watching the mega TV in the Celtics room off of Legends

When Sweeney got up I was thinking 'no f***ing way is he drafting all 3'

Dom has had told me they weren't taking Konecny from what he heard and told me keep an eye on Senyshyn but I believe he was thinking 33 the Carlo pick

I had also heard they watched White a lot and he could go at 15.

Zboril seemed a lock and then Barzal and Connor or White.

I was so stunned when he said DeBrusk who I was told 21-30. When Senyshyn was called I thought it was the Russian the Red Wings took 19

DeBrusk looks like he will be a good 3 zone player who will eventually get assists and score goals at a Michael Ryder or Hoffman rate

Senyshyn and JFK at 45 are the two to watch - Senyshyn the spot and JFK the type they targeted

Good news is they can let ZS keep on keeping in the AHL getting stronger and more experienced and on a plan

 

[DKH]

As a Bruins fan Hamilton was a very good player that I was OK with losing for futures. And relieved we weren't going to have to give 7 mil to. (Goodbye Torey Krug there is no room for you on the Bruins if we signed Dougie...I prefer Krug for the record.)

But even if we hit on all those picks Donny turned down a Phil Kessel 2.0 return not having the balls to let PC offer sheet him or cough up a return like Burke did. Dougie was brutal the first year away from Clode and Chara and Edmonton was brutal that year. We should have let him go there.

3 for 3 in the middle of 2015 sounds nice but you know what sounds better? 2 for 2 in 2016. Keller AND McAvoy? (Or Laine/Matthews etc.)



McAvoy and Carlo with the Boychuk pick are Sweeney's best moves. Sweeney might be unemployed RN for the 2015 draft if that years 2nd rounder had a stat line like Zboril in the AHL and wasn't playing 20 minutes a game in the bigs.

There was no way Chiarelli was making an offer sheet- zero. The story was just part of the script to get the deal done

He had the required offer sheet draft picks to make a deal

But even better to entice Sweeney

1. Instead of a 1,2, and 3, it was a 1 and two 2's. Not only that the higher 2 was pick 33.

2. The picks were right here right now in a deep draft - you get a jump on development.

Hamilton and his camp really screwed the Bruins over and Chiarelli knew what was going on - his relationship with Dougies agent came in handy.

My favorite part is Chiarelli f***ed up twice

1. He had the Hamilton contract with no Hamilton so he gave it to Sekera

2. He had the Hamilton picks but no Hamilton to trade for so he traded it for Reinhart who is now Vegas property

For those following

Chiarelli traded 16 & 33 for a guy in Vegas AHL and gave Sekara over $33 M

Ouch

Such a great story - Hallmark

Feel free to make your own opinion but this is part is that tear jerker with Chiarelli the jerk and his tears

 

[BigGoalBrad]

If I remember the in the know posts from that draft suggested that the Chiarelli Reinhard trade was a knee jerk reaction to the Bruins sniping Senyshyn the pick before his?

I wonder when his tenure as Bruins GM ends if the drama with Burke/Kaberle at the draft prior to the Kessel trade didn't happen. It was clearly Burke who was trying to save face backing out and pretending he didn't offer Kaberle and a pick for Phil though the deal he made ended up being far worse. Sometimes its better to be lucky than good and deciding that Phil Kessel wasn't worth Marco Sturm money sure worked out well for Chiarelli. And he sure made 2 great trades in the 12 months following that windfall getting Seids and Horton for essentially unwanted spare parts.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

You forgot the other 12 teams that passed on him.

Also no way the kid puts up that many pts for the Bruins. He would not be in wide open system like he is with the Isles surrounded by a lot of good scores like Lee, Tavares and Eberle. All that power play time would probably not happen here either. He is pretty much in perfect surroundings. Put Bjork with them and he probably rings out a lot more pts, only free wheeling and not playing in his own end.

As for the Hamilton situation, what really bothers me and no one mentions it. Everyone knew there was not much give and take going on and no news on the contract talks. Why oh why did no other GM get on the phone and call about a deal. Is that not there job to look not these things and capitalize on a stagnant situation. Everyone knew the deadline was coming up and a draft was about to happen and they said the were surprised, shame on all the other GMs.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Also no way the kid puts up that many pts for the Bruins. He would not be in wide open system like he is with the Isles surrounded by a lot of good scores like Lee, Tavares and Eberle. All that power play time would probably not happen here either. He is pretty much in perfect surroundings. Put Bjork with them and he probably rings out a lot more pts, only free wheeling and not playing in his own end.

As for the Hamilton situation, what really bothers me and no one mentions it. Everyone knew there was not much give and take going on and no news on the contract talks. Why oh why did no other GM get on the phone and call about a deal. Is that not there job to look not these things and capitalize on a stagnant situation. Everyone knew the deadline was coming up and a draft was about to happen and they said the were surprised, shame on all the other GMs.

Noone saw Dougie WANTING his way out of Boston. Even our own organization probably assumed it was just growing pains and posturing for a larger contract not him being desperate to leave the organization. I realized it was going to happen maybe a week before the draft when it became clear he didn't want to be a Bruin but not before that.

I mean he got a much larger contract offer from us than we ever wanted to give him because the dude desperately wanted to not be a Bruin. If he had any interest in playing here he isn't dealt. But him, his parents, and Freddie played their hand and got their wish.

Our disgruntled ex GM would have offer sheeted him. It beats signing Sekera and trading Taylor Hall for Larsson. He'd have offer sheeted Dougie and signed someone like Oduya who I think was a UFA that summer and kept Hall. Thats way better!

 

[ODAAT]

You forgot the other 12 teams that passed on him.

Those don`t go count friend, the B`s are the ONLY team in the NHL who has passed over a prospect fans wanted here in favor of another.

Now, in fairness, it was 3 times the B`s passed him over. Love to be a fly on the wall when the conversation about Barzal took place. I don`t look at the B`s picks at that time and how Barzal has played and allow it to tick me off but I wager it might have been a fun conversation to listen to as far as reasons why they chose to go in a different direction.

 

[Speed Shooter]

Sweeney took over being in cap hell and FA and agents new this and weren't targeting the Bruins.

Grant it the Belesky signing didn't turn out but I remember after the signing it didn't seem that ridiculous. The Backus signing is the length that hurts but I love what Backus brings to the team with his intangibles he does so much to help you win that doesn't show-up on the score sheet.

Basically the intelligent thing to do, was just what he did. Conquer the draft. He's done that trading for picks and hitting gold with Pasta and McAvoy.

Pasta was a Chiarelli pick, actually. But I think everyone can agree that Sweeney's moves to deal Hamilton & Lucic for futures is proving to be a pretty good move. Could have been a moonshot home run (Barzal, Connor, Boeser) in the 1st round, hard to quibble with the haul of first 6 players B's selected.

But judging his entire body of work, outside of the drafting/convincing college players (Bjork, JFK, Heinen, McAvoy) to go PRO and signing Pasta/Marchand, the rest of Sweeney's 2.5 years on the job has been mediocre - and that's being kind.

Did I miss how this team is no longer in Cap Hell? How much room will be left on Salary Cap once McQuaid returns of LTIR with current roster? And for folks keeping track, by Sweeney's own decisions, he is paying approximately 14.5 million (3.3 million of which is DEAD money) for:

• Backes
• McQuaid
• Miller
• Belesky (buried in AHL)
• Hayes (bought out)

That's 19 % of the 75m cap. Just let that settle in for a second. I don't know how many franchises would spend nearly 20% of their cap for that allotment of players - but yet here we are.

Then there's the awful trades. We have rehashed time and again the disastrous Rinaldo, Stempniak and Liles overpay deals. Basically got suckered for what assets were sent the other way. All picks have value if used properly. Also failed to deal Eriksson at the deadline in '16 and let him walk for nada. Bubble team that did not make playoffs. Bad call. And this is not revisionist history as many of us were praying he would. Any return could have helped build assets for future usage. How so? Look at Blues. They knew Shattenkirk would walk, so they moved him to Caps for a late first...which at the draft was sent to sweeten offer to PHI and help pry Brayden Schenn.

That is a good GM to me. Someone who can think ahead. Understand how valuable picks are for drafts OR for usage elsewhere. Not for throwaway deadline retreads like Stafford, Liles or Stempniak. Or even, giving Chia credit, scouting guys in other orgs like Boychuk, Ference, Paille, and sending over minimal capital to acquire them. In 2.5 years has Sweeney even sniffed that type off deal? Nope.

It's hard for me to get a read on him yet. No in season trades in 2.5 years? Is there really no talent out there to acquire? Really?

 

[KrejciMVP]

They've survived well this year. Better than I thought but that's not a great compliment . I'll wait till April to decide on Sweeneys plan.

 

[KnightofBoston]

Pasta was a Chiarelli pick, actually. But I think everyone can agree that Sweeney's moves to deal Hamilton & Lucic for futures is proving to be a pretty good move. Could have been a moonshot home run (Barzal, Connor, Boeser) in the 1st round, hard to quibble with the haul of first 6 players B's selected.

But judging his entire body of work, outside of the drafting/convincing college players (Bjork, JFK, Heinen, McAvoy) to go PRO and signing Pasta/Marchand, the rest of Sweeney's 2.5 years on the job has been mediocre - and that's being kind.

Did I miss how this team is no longer in Cap Hell? How much room will be left on Salary Cap once McQuaid returns of LTIR with current roster? And for folks keeping track, by Sweeney's own decisions, he is paying approximately 14.5 million (3.3 million of which is DEAD money) for:

• Backes
• McQuaid
• Miller
• Belesky (buried in AHL)
• Hayes (bought out)

That's 19 % of the 75m cap. Just let that settle in for a second. I don't know how many franchises would spend nearly 20% of their cap for that allotment of players - but yet here we are.

Then there's the awful trades. We have rehashed time and again the disastrous Rinaldo, Stempniak and Liles overpay deals. Basically got suckered for what assets were sent the other way. All picks have value if used properly. Also failed to deal Eriksson at the deadline in '16 and let him walk for nada. Bubble team that did not make playoffs. Bad call. And this is not revisionist history as many of us were praying he would. Any return could have helped build assets for future usage. How so? Look at Blues. They knew Shattenkirk would walk, so they moved him to Caps for a late first...which at the draft was sent to sweeten offer to PHI and help pry Brayden Schenn.

That is a good GM to me. Someone who can think ahead. Understand how valuable picks are for drafts OR for usage elsewhere. Not for throwaway deadline retreads like Stafford, Liles or Stempniak. Or even, giving Chia credit, scouting guys in other orgs like Boychuk, Ference, Paille, and sending over minimal capital to acquire them. In 2.5 years has Sweeney even sniffed that type off deal? Nope.

It's hard for me to get a read on him yet. No in season trades in 2.5 years? Is there really no talent out there to acquire? Really?

This is a good take on it whether one agrees or not, but I do want to point out - chiarelli called the pasta pick on the podium, but Sweeney and Axellson did the heavy lifting


Chiarelli made it loud and clear he's not a draft and develop guy, and he's lost his ability to make pro trades. Sweeney on the other hand is a hell of a development guy, but is lost in the woods like a new born lamb when it comes to the pro stuff....this will either change with time or we'll do OK in spite of it because of the strength at draft and develop

 

[00BW]

When it comes to rankings, you win some and you lose some. And sometimes it is a push. I am quite satisfied with the bruins recent drafts as compared to the consensus rankings. But here are some comparisons with '14 and '15.

2014 NHL Draft Prospect Consensus Rankings

16	Ho-Sang	22 games	2G	10A
17	Kempe	32 games	10G	7A
18	Pastrnak	29 games	15G	14A
35	Point	35 games	14G	16A

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

'Wow, Ho-Sang fell to us at 25 yet we still picked this lower ranked kid with a concussion history. I bet we regret this...'

2015 NHL Draft Prospect Consensus Rankings

9	Barzal	32 games	8G	20A	NHL
13	Meier*	30 games	4G	4A	NHL
14	Merkley	20 games	12G	12A	AHL
15	Svechnikov	22 games	2G	2A	AHL

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*Meier taken 9th pick but shown because of draft spot

21	Zboril	23 games	0G	5A	AHL
25	DeBrusk	25 games	6G	8A	NHL
??	Senyshyn	25 games	5G	8A	AHL

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

'We skipped consensus players that fell to us again. Was this the correct decision like last year?'

Again, looking at both draft years the Bruins did not select the consensus BPA. The Islanders did. It did not work out for them in 2014 but it did in 2015. NOT picking BPA worked out for the Bruins in 2014 but it may not have worked out for the Bruins in 2015 for at least one pick--not yet anyway.

How good would the Islanders be right now with top 3 centers of Tavares - Point - Barzal? They should have continued to let Ho-Sang with his attitude and off ice issues fall and taken the little guy from Moose Jaw who put up 91 points. Or they could have taken Kempe who would be Tavers or Barzal's wing.

How good would the Bruins be right now with Barzal as the #3 center but no Pasta? They would have Merkley and Svechnikov in the AHL instead of Zboril and Senyshyn down there.

You can't preach BPA without acknowledging both Ho-Sang (16) and Kempe (17) were still on the board when the Bruins chose Pastrnak (18) over them.

 

[Ice Nine]

No one else passed on him 3 times.

Yep, I think the Bruins have drafted decently under Sweeney (much better than Chia) with two big hits in Pasta and Charlie. But Barzal is going to be their big miss.

Here's my post from June 29, 2015, two days after the draft, arguing we should have taken him, as he was the "Pasta" of the 2015 draft, in that he had higher upside, but fell down the draft due to some injury concerns. We ignored those concerns and took Pasta in 2014, and it's paid off. Could and should have done the same with Barzal:

Injury.

In ways, you could argue Barzal might be this draft's Pasta. Why?

Pasta was ranked very highly early on, but fell in overall rankings due to injury concerns (season ending concussion). In fact, some thought Pasta might fall even further, to late 1st round:

David Pastrnak: 2014 NHL Draft Prospect Profile

Barzal fell on the draft board for injury concerns. But he has the talent to help a team right now, and has major 1st line upside.

Bruins should have drafted him. Could have been another Pasta.

 

[DKH]

Noone saw Dougie WANTING his way out of Boston. Even our own organization probably assumed it was just growing pains and posturing for a larger contract not him being desperate to leave the organization. I realized it was going to happen maybe a week before the draft when it became clear he didn't want to be a Bruin but not before that.

I mean he got a much larger contract offer from us than we ever wanted to give him because the dude desperately wanted to not be a Bruin. If he had any interest in playing here he isn't dealt. But him, his parents, and Freddie played their hand and got their wish.

Our disgruntled ex GM would have offer sheeted him. It beats signing Sekera and trading Taylor Hall for Larsson. He'd have offer sheeted Dougie and signed someone like Oduya who I think was a UFA that summer and kept Hall. Thats way better!

Your f***ing wrong

He was not doing an offer sheet

If you want to believe it go for it

 

[Ice Nine]

When it comes to rankings, you win some and you lose some. And sometimes it is a push. I am quite satisfied with the bruins recent drafts as compared to the consensus rankings. But here are some comparisons with '14 and '15.

2014 NHL Draft Prospect Consensus Rankings

16	Ho-Sang	22 games	2G	10A
17	Kempe	32 games	10G	7A
18	Pastrnak	29 games	15G	14A
35	Point	35 games	14G	16A

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

'Wow, Ho-Sang fell to us at 25 yet we still picked this lower ranked kid with a concussion history. I bet we regret this...'

2015 NHL Draft Prospect Consensus Rankings

9	Barzal	32 games	8G	20A	NHL
13	Meier*	30 games	4G	4A	NHL
14	Merkley	20 games	12G	12A	AHL
15	Svechnikov	22 games	2G	2A	AHL

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*Meier taken 9th pick but shown because of draft spot

21	Zboril	23 games	0G	5A	AHL
25	DeBrusk	25 games	6G	8A	NHL
??	Senyshyn	25 games	5G	8A	AHL

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

'We skipped consensus players that fell to us again. Was this the correct decision like last year?'

Again, looking at both draft years the Bruins did not select the consensus BPA. The Islanders did. It did not work out for them in 2014 but it did in 2015. NOT picking BPA worked out for the Bruins in 2014 but it may not have worked out for the Bruins in 2015 for at least one pick--not yet anyway.

How good would the Islanders be right now with top 3 centers of Tavares - Point - Barzal? They should have continued to let Ho-Sang with his attitude and off ice issues fall and taken the little guy from Moose Jaw who put up 91 points. Or they could have taken Kempe who would be Tavers or Barzal's wing.

How good would the Bruins be right now with Barzal as the #3 center but no Pasta? They would have Merkley and Svechnikov in the AHL instead of Zboril and Senyshyn down there.

You can't preach BPA without acknowledging both Ho-Sang (16) and Kempe (17) were still on the board when the Bruins chose Pastrnak (18) over them.

"Always pick BPA" is strawman. No one deploys that strategy in drafting -- a more realistic approach, is who is the Best Player Available, in light of a range of factors, including scouting consensus, but also talent assessment. The best way to beat NHL scouts, is they often over-emphasize the importance of size and also exaggerate injury concerns.

In fact, Pasta in 2014 arguably was scouted early on to go much higher in the draft due to talent, but he fell far down due to injury concerns as well as size concerns. We were smart and ignored those exaggerated concerns. The BPA at 25th overall was very likely Pasta in 2014, based on talent/upside (ignoring exaggerated size/injury concerns among scouts).

 

[JP Nolan]

At this very minute this team is starting to show signs of a bubble 7th 8th 9th 10 place team and maybe worse. This is disgusting at this point.

This GM has not bought one NHL player into the fold from a trade that impacts the team and it is 3 YEARS.....3 YEARS now.......I mean, is this man so scared of doing his job that this nucleus should go another year with this clown as the GM ?

Rookies and first year players always hit walls. This team at this very second is screaming for a trade. An injection of NHL caliber talent for a roster that really needs help.

Kids are great to have. If you are an expansion team or a team that does not think as highly of itself as this team does as an original six franchise. Or you dont have a Stanley Cup winning nucleus which has been deprived and starved of proper support. This scared as crap GM needs to come out from under his desk and make an NHL trade to help this roster. Caps and Rags exposed us as WEAK, SOFT and SOFT. This team needs some men to compliment all the kids.