Management Don Sweeney VI

[Estlin]

And JFK, all in the same draft.

I know it's hard for some people to understand that the Bruins set up their franchise quite well moving forward with the 2015 draft, but it's true.

And how much better would Boston have set up the franchise by drafting Barzal instead of Senyshyn?

 

[PB37]

And how much better would Boston have set up the franchise by drafting Barzal instead of Senyshyn?

How much better would the Islanders be if they had drafted Pasta instead of Dal Colle? That sort of game can be played into infinity. The Bruins picked up some players in that draft that are helping both the pro and minor league team win right now and the team is moving in the right direction.

 

[Estlin]

How much better would the Islanders be if they had drafted Pasta instead of Dal Colle? That sort of game can be played into infinity. The Bruins picked up some players in that draft that are helping both the pro and minor league team win right now and the team is moving in the right direction.

Who cares about what the Islanders—or any other team, for that matter—did in a draft? Barzal was an obvious choice in 2015, and Boston passed on him for whatever reason. You said that that Boston had set up the franchise quite well moving forward with the 2015 draft (and I agree); I was replying by saying that drafting Barzal would have set up the franchise even better, given how he's performed in the league to date.

 

[finchster]

You can't knock the Bruins for taking Zboril, we had a need at Defence and he was considered the best pick. However, it is a different situation when you pick so far off the board to draft a guy over a consensus pick and your guy was the wrong pick.
I stated a while back the 2015 second round picks have a chance to be better than our first round picks in 2015

 

[Fenian24]

How much better would the Islanders be if they had drafted Pasta instead of Dal Colle? That sort of game can be played into infinity. The Bruins picked up some players in that draft that are helping both the pro and minor league team win right now and the team is moving in the right direction.

Senyshyn with his 3 goals helping out Providence? How about Zboril with his 3 assists? Yes I know he is a plus player but he still has 3 assists.

I don' care about how providece does I just want them to produce NHL ready players, which they have done with DeBrusk and Heinen, Bjork is looking more and more like he needs time down there

 

[chizzler]

Who cares about what the Islanders—or any other team, for that matter—did in a draft? Barzal was an obvious choice in 2015, and Boston passed on him for whatever reason. You said that that Boston had set up the franchise quite well moving forward with the 2015 draft (and I agree); I was replying by saying that drafting Barzal would have set up the franchise even better, given how he's performed in the league to date.

You and others gonna keep regurgitating this nonsense forever. The draft is a crapshoot across all 4 leagues. Hockey is no different. Just injoy the young movement we have going on here. Sweeney tried to move up. Didn't work, so he drafted these guys we have. You can yell at Gretzky if it makes you feel better. Sigh......

 

[Tampbear]

And how much better would Boston have set up the franchise by drafting Barzal instead of Senyshyn?

No one will know this until we know where all these guys will be. Maybe Seny becomes a 35 to 40 goal scorer and JFK becomes a top line center. We just don't know right now and won't until everyone is done developing. Being the first to start putting up points does not make you the top player from the draft. As someone else pointed out, last year Koneckny was being touted now we have Debrusk outproducing him. Seny is a year behind Debrusk development wise and seems to be developing similarly down in Providence.

 

[00BW]

The CHL is an impediment to the development of the non-superstar 18 and 19 year old players (unlike Seguin/McDavid/MacKinnon/etc. that go straight to the NHL). Pasta is as good as he is this quickly in part because the Bruins were able to send him to the AHL in his draft year because he was playing in the SHL. Toronto then did the same thing with Nylander and the Rangers are developing Chytil that way right now.
DeBrusk had a full year of AHL last year because he was a couple months older than Senyshyn who had to be sent back to Jrs even though they were drafted in the same year. It is a stupid rule that has cost Senyshyn a development year. He's slightly ahead of DeBrusk's pace last year and still has a higher ceiling because of his speed and size but it's taking longer because the Bruins were prohibited from sending him to the AHL last year.

If you really want to litigate the Barzal choice you also need to look at him personally. He was injured his draft year because he was 'horsing around' in the locker room and broke his patella. Was it an actual fight with a teammate or were they doing stupid Jackass level stunts? We don't really know. There are also rumored attitude issues that came out of the team interviews. He fell down the draft board for a lot of teams, not just the Bruins.

2015 draft was the day after trading Hamilton, and Sweeney's first, and he appears to have put a major emphasis on personality and attitude since. With their picks in the top couple of rounds with him as GM, the Bruins have been picking gregarious gel guys (they realized the team missed guys like Thornton and Boychuck) or serious team leaders (eventual Chara/Bergeron replacements). Guys like DeBrusk, Senyshyn, McAvoy, and Fredric all fit the first personality type while Carlo, JFK, and Lindgren fit the second. That's not to say other types of people can't fit in or you pick nice guys that can't play hockey. If you have a group of 10 or 12 prospects you evaluate to be about on par, then pick the guy who will fit with the team over those with real or perceived attitude issues. The Islanders took Ho-Sang the year before and had no problem with Barzal in 2015. One of those 2 gambles has so far worked out for them.

Look at the recent Islanders - Bruins game. Your star rookie D takes a hard, clean hit and DeBrusk immediately goes over and fights for his teammate--even though he knew it was clean he's sending a message to both teams. 20 minutes later on his first shift back he scores a highlight spin-o-rama goal. That's the character AND skill the Bruins are drafting. Later in the game the Bruins take two 5 min majors (interference and headbutt) and you don't see any Islander interested in trying to fight or stick up for their teammates. Just one soft crosscheck to the back of the guy that hit your best player. That's some weak sauce.

 

[Agent86]

The CHL is an impediment to the development of the non-superstar 18 and 19 year old players (unlike Seguin/McDavid/MacKinnon/etc. that go straight to the NHL). Pasta is as good as he is this quickly in part because the Bruins were able to send him to the AHL in his draft year because he was playing in the SHL. Toronto then did the same thing with Nylander and the Rangers are developing Chytil that way right now.
DeBrusk had a full year of AHL last year because he was a couple months older than Senyshyn who had to be sent back to Jrs even though they were drafted in the same year. It is a stupid rule that has cost Senyshyn a development year. He's slightly ahead of DeBrusk's pace last year and still has a higher ceiling because of his speed and size but it's taking longer because the Bruins were prohibited from sending him to the AHL last year.

If you really want to litigate the Barzal choice you also need to look at him personally. He was injured his draft year because he was 'horsing around' in the locker room and broke his patella. Was it an actual fight with a teammate or were they doing stupid Jackass level stunts? We don't really know. There are also rumored attitude issues that came out of the team interviews. He fell down the draft board for a lot of teams, not just the Bruins.

2015 draft was the day after trading Hamilton, and Sweeney's first, and he appears to have put a major emphasis on personality and attitude since. With their picks in the top couple of rounds with him as GM, the Bruins have been picking gregarious gel guys (they realized the team missed guys like Thornton and Boychuck) or serious team leaders (eventual Chara/Bergeron replacements). Guys like DeBrusk, Senyshyn, McAvoy, and Fredric all fit the first personality type while Carlo, JFK, and Lindgren fit the second. That's not to say other types of people can't fit in or you pick nice guys that can't play hockey. If you have a group of 10 or 12 prospects you evaluate to be about on par, then pick the guy who will fit with the team over those with real or perceived attitude issues. The Islanders took Ho-Sang the year before and had no problem with Barzal in 2015. One of those 2 gambles has so far worked out for them.

Look at the recent Islanders - Bruins game. Your star rookie D takes a hard, clean hit and DeBrusk immediately goes over and fights for his teammate--even though he knew it was clean he's sending a message to both teams. 20 minutes later on his first shift back he scores a highlight spin-o-rama goal. That's the character AND skill the Bruins are drafting. Later in the game the Bruins take two 5 min majors (interference and headbutt) and you don't see any Islander interested in trying to fight or stick up for their teammates. Just one soft crosscheck to the back of the guy that hit your best player. That's some weak sauce.

Great post!

As Johnny Cochrane once famously opined "If the glove don't fit... you must use you draft picks on players who will support your organizational needs and attitude" or something along those lines. Draft rankings are one thing but the interviews, doing your research on character and fit must also play a huge part in how you draft. Outside of the top 3-5 no brainers each year, you gotta do your homework.

 

[Danton Heineken]

And how much better would Boston have set up the franchise by drafting Barzal instead of Senyshyn?

You should get EHM or FHM 4 so that way you can do a Historical League and then draft all your favorite players. Seems like you'd get enjoyment out of that.

 

[patty59]

And how much better would Boston have set up the franchise by drafting Barzal instead of Senyshyn?

They probably would have at least 3 more cups by now, if not more.

 

[BruinDust]

Great post!

As Johnny Cochrane once famously opined "If the glove don't fit... you must use you draft picks on players who will support your organizational needs and attitude" or something along those lines. Draft rankings are one thing but the interviews, doing your research on character and fit must also play a huge part in how you draft. Outside of the top 3-5 no brainers each year, you gotta do your homework.

Yup, and sometimes you just have to look past it. These are 17-18 year old kids they are picking, some mature faster than others. And look at the talent and upside of a player.

Phil Kessel didn't exactly interview well in his draft year. Thank goodness the Bruins had enough sense to select him and not pass on him in favor of these guys ranked just behind him like James Sheppard and Peter Mueller.

 

[Agent86]

Yup, and sometimes you just have to look past it. These are 17-18 year old kids they are picking, some mature faster than others. And look at the talent and upside of a player.

Phil Kessel didn't exactly interview well in his draft year. Thank goodness the Bruins had enough sense to select him and not pass on him in favor of these guys ranked just behind him like James Sheppard and Peter Mueller.

Ability, aptitude, attitude, engagement, integrity, maturity, potential. Shake it all up and see how it fits your club on draft day. I'd like to see us hit on every pick but who's kidding who. As you say, not all 18 year olds mature/flourish at the same rate and that is why it is somewhat premature of some here to declare the 2015 draft a bust.

Kessel is a great example of a poor pre-draft set of interviews not inhibiting an above career but it did point to red flags that have dogged him like level of engagement, maturity and attitude. Has found a great situation in Pittsburgh but he is not a leader and is not comfortable with those expectations - see right fit.

 

[rocketdan9]

Barzal has what 29 pts in 25 games now?

He would be top three in scoring for the Bruins

His ability to hold the puck alone would open things up for others

Sweeney should have learned a valuable lesson when other teams messed up by , bypassing on the bpa (pasta)

Pick bpa always. Not positional need. Worry about the crowded house later

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

Barzal has what 29 pts in 25 games now?

He would be top three in scoring for the Bruins

His ability to hold the puck alone would open things up for others

Sweeney should have learned a valuable lesson when other teams messed up by , bypassing on the bpa (pasta)

Pick bpa always. Not positional need. Worry about the crowded house later

Hopefully this helps kill the pain some, Chiarilli traded the 16th pick to the islanders for Griffin Reinhart.

 

[DKH]

The organization development plan for projects is very impressive.

Customizing a specific objective for Zboril, Senyshyn, and JFK may not yield early results but long term should reap a harvest.

Senyshyn who used age, experience, size, skating, and speed to blow by defenseman in the OHL using one or more of his advantages would find that won't work in the AHL let along the NHL.

What do the Bruins do they encourage him taking it to the inside so when he does get to the NHL he will have two options depending on the strength and weakness of the defender

Zboril was a risk taker and as enticing a skater and skill set you can't vacate your position when the spirit moves you. What do they do? same thing they did to McAvoy they emphasized your own end and positioning

Anyone remember the posts on HF last winter questioning McAvoy how he wasn't putting up numbers and didn't show the offensive skills. I do.

I saw Charlie for the last time live at Lowell in March and he was as vanilla as vanilla gets. But when the NCAA tourney and WJC came around he went into full McAvoy mode.

JFK same thing - he's more NHL ready and his game is advanced from my viewing live so they want 3 zone strong on puck, and know each passing week he's more experienced and physically mature

To read those embarrassing posts these kids are garbage is an indictment on the poster. The good news there are only a few that don't grasp it which isn't bad.

Don and his staff have done an incredible job from the Hamilton sting to what we are seeing in these kids and will continue

 

[bearcountry17]

Barzal has what 29 pts in 25 games now?

He would be top three in scoring for the Bruins

His ability to hold the puck alone would open things up for others

Sweeney should have learned a valuable lesson when other teams messed up by , bypassing on the bpa (pasta)

Pick bpa always. Not positional need. Worry about the crowded house later

Mcavoy wasn’t BPA.

 

[Dr Hook]

Mcavoy wasn’t BPA.

Except that as it turns out, he clearly was

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

Mcavoy wasn’t BPA.

Wasn't the consensus best at 14 but only because chychrun kept falling and was predominately expected to go higher.

McAvoy by most was picked to go right around where he went.

I remember watching the draft and I believe it was Sweeney who said on the way up to the podium, I cant believe hes still there.

 

[bearcountry17]

Wasn't the consensus best at 14 but only because chychrun kept falling and was predominately expected to go higher.

McAvoy by most was picked to go right around where he went.

I remember watching the draft and I believe it was Sweeney who said on the way up to the podium, I cant believe hes still there.

On average Dante Fabbro was ranked higher as well. I just don’t think Sweeney gets enough credit for, of 3 logical choices, picking what looks like the best pick despite picking the lowest ranked of the 3.

But i guess If Mcavoy was doing what hes doing now in Arizona or Nashville and we had Chychrun or Fabbro people would be fine with it because we went BPA.

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

On average Dante Fabbro was ranked higher as well. I just don’t think Sweeney gets enough credit for, of 3 logical choices, picking what looks like the best pick despite picking the lowest ranked of the 3.

But i guess If Mcavoy was doing what hes doing now in Arizona or Nashville and we had Chychrun or Fabbro people would be fine with it because we went BPA.

In the NHL world Sweeney is getting his props and McAvoy is getting his accolades.

In time, I think the credit will come even more but that will come with success. He's done a fabulous job drafting and all these kids are still young. Give it 3-4 yrs and I believe the praises will start rolling in, just not for McAvoy but for the plethora of NHL caliber prospects he's drafted.

 

[Fenian24]

In the NHL world Sweeney is getting his props and McAvoy is getting his accolades.

In time, I think the credit will come even more but that will come with success. He's done a fabulous job drafting and all these kids are still young. Give it 3-4 yrs and I believe the praises will start rolling in, just not for McAvoy but for the plethora of NHL caliber prospects he's drafted.

In 3-4 years Sweeney will be selling used cars in Burlington trying to explain his decisions as GM.

 

[DKH]

Hopefully this helps kill the pain some, Chiarilli traded the 16th pick to the islanders for Griffin Reinhart.

the 16th and the 33rd pick

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

In 3-4 years Sweeney will be selling used cars in Burlington trying to explain his decisions as GM.

Hopefully if he decides to take on more duties he's as good at picking out used cars as he is at drafting prospects and building a Stanley Cup contender.

 

[DKH]

Barzal has what 29 pts in 25 games now?

He would be top three in scoring for the Bruins

His ability to hold the puck alone would open things up for others

Sweeney should have learned a valuable lesson when other teams messed up by , bypassing on the bpa (pasta)

Pick bpa always. Not positional need. Worry about the crowded house later

This happens at least they got Senyshyn who worst case to me looks like Mason Raymond.

Chiarelli passed on Barzal and Connor and also tossed in 33 which could have been Carlo for a guy who he lost to Vegas and is in the AHL.

JFK also factors in this as well - he's the center they wanted who rhe Flyers would have taken I heard where Konecny went if not for a bad concussion before the draft

Boston doesn't look at it strictly as Senyshyn. Regardless they are encouraged on his development.

Barzal was the guy I wanted the most

However

I wanted Fabro over McAvoy
I wanted some guy out of hockey over Bergeron
I wanted them to trade the picks used on Karsums and Krejci used to move up to get Chris Bourque

Like you though I did want sakic over Quintell but only because some babealish I was hanging with told me he was the cutest guy in the draft and I remembered the name not like I scouted him

You win some you lose some

I expect Barzal to be a star but would not be surprised if Boston does ok here as well
Senyshyn may take some time but I got a good feeling with him