Management Don Sweeney VI

[Krupp]

I'd keep Heinen, but then again, that may be because Loui opened my eyes up for guys who don't APPEAR like they're doing much, but are still somehow contributing, as improbable as it seems...

And don't get me wrong, i'd love to Senyshyn to pan out. Would love for Zboril to make it too, just to stick the finger in the eyes of others team who were talking shit to me about that draft that year!

 

[DKH]

I keep a Northland in the TV room in case I need to do a stick tap for a well done play.

When I look at the young skilled group of wingers I have to give it to Donny Hockey....Bjork Pastrnak DeBrusk Heinen Cehlarik Vatrano......more wings on the way

Well done Ser Sweeney well done

 

[ODAAT]

I keep a Northland in the TV room in case I need to do a stick tap for a well done play.

When I look at the young skilled group of wingers I have to give it to Donny Hockey....Bjork Pastrnak DeBrusk Heinen Cehlarik Vatrano......more wings on the way

Well done Ser Sweeney well done

I`m liking what I heard about Fitzgerald/JFK too , not to mention kids who`ll be coming up the pipeline soon in Studsy, Donato. Now if DS could only get that pro scouting department to be as sound as the amateur scouting, he`d be onto something. Looking like he`s setting himself up the middle too

and the D???? Don`t get me started, so optimistic and excited about what "could" be down the road very soon

 

[bp13]

I keep a Northland in the TV room in case I need to do a stick tap for a well done play.

When I look at the young skilled group of wingers I have to give it to Donny Hockey....Bjork Pastrnak DeBrusk Heinen Cehlarik Vatrano......more wings on the way

Well done Ser Sweeney well done

Very true.

Now if only he didn't litter the roster with overpriced and underwhelming vets like Backes, Beleskey, Spooner, etc. It's not going to be enough to hit with draft picks when you're picking mid-1st round every year. At some point he's going to have to prove he can make some smart acquisitions to complement the youth, and most importantly, actually make an impact. You can keep singing his praises all day but until he does the other half of his job he gets a C+ from me.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I keep a Northland in the TV room in case I need to do a stick tap for a well done play.

When I look at the young skilled group of wingers I have to give it to Donny Hockey....Bjork Pastrnak DeBrusk Heinen Cehlarik Vatrano......more wings on the way

Well done Ser Sweeney well done

Big fan of Bjork, but lets not forget and give credit where credit is due, 5 of the 6 above were picked by Chiarelli and he deserves credit even though he gets bashed for drafting. Bjork and Pasta look like great Chia picks, 2014 draft was probably one of his best.

 

[DKH]

Big fan of Bjork, but lets not forget and give credit where credit is due, 5 of the 6 above were picked by Chiarelli and he deserves credit even though he gets bashed for drafting. Bjork and Pasta look like great Chia picks, 2014 draft was probably one of his best.

You like me and everyone else is free to assign credit and blame as it relates to all things good, bad, and indifferent as relates to the Bruins draft

I am comfortable few have the information and bsck stories on this as me and I'll say it's more probable then not that Don Sweeney gets a corner piece with frosting when they cut up this cake on many of these guys- and there is cake for many

If I come off as a Dick I wear the crown proudly

 

[whatsbruin]

I keep a Northland in the TV room in case I need to do a stick tap for a well done play.

When I look at the young skilled group of wingers I have to give it to Donny Hockey....Bjork Pastrnak DeBrusk Heinen Cehlarik Vatrano......more wings on the way

Well done Ser Sweeney well done

Don't you know, all of Sweeney's picks suck.
He hasn't drafted a McDavid or Matthews in any of his drafts.
Guys a bum.

I think it is time to move on from Belesky and Spooner. I think Donnie probably sees that as well, but wanted to give them one more chance.
If Spooners injury had been a nagging one, for several games, that finally pushed him out of the line up, then he should get a look again when he is completely healthy.

 

[C77]

Credit to Sweeney for improving the organizational depth at the forward position.

Not everything has worked out but the coach has options to roll out different lineups and to use the carrot and stick approach to playing time. Only a few players are "safe" and those guys are self-starters anyway.

We are down three centers now so it will be tested.

 

[DKH]

Credit to Sweeney for improving the organizational depth at the forward position.

Not everything has worked out but the coach has options to roll out different lineups and to use the carrot and stick approach to playing time. Only a few players are "safe" and those guys are self-starters anyway.

We are down three centers now so it will be tested.

I'd flip Backes to center and call up Heinen

Don't get it

Also, someday Cehlarik may be one of best forwards on this team

I was late to the party on him but he looks like he's got pretty much everything

 

[00BW]

People love to talk about how great a trader Peter Chiarelli was for the Bruins but if you actually go back and look, he has a very checkered history.
Trades collected from: http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Boston_Bruins/1

In order with who the Bruins received on the left.
1st year:
1) Chistov for a 2008 3rd round pick (non-NHLer) - (seems like Rinaldo for 3rd to me)
2) Sauve for Redenbach - (a wash)
3) Unfulfilled Future Considerations for Wade Brookbank - (can't remember if this was salary dump but likely so)
4) 5th round (Denis Reul) for Yan Stastny - (a wash)
5) 4th round (about to be traded) for Jurcina - (I liked Jurcina but a wash)
6) Bochenski for Versteeg - (a major blunder)
7) Ference and Kobasew for Primeau, Brad Stuart, and that 4th from above (TJ Brodie was picked) - (part salary dump but also the start of the traded picks becoming great players trend that haunts Chiarelli - I'd call this a loss)
8) Aaron Ward for Paul Mara - (a wash)
9) Wideman for Boyes - (I think a loss as Boyes was an awesome winger for Bergeron but most consider a wash)
10) McQuaid (3 years before he plays 1st NHL game) for 5th round pick (Jamie Benn - 2 years before he plays 1st NHL game) - (a loss - Crazy when you realize Dallas got their top 2 players from Boston thanks to Chiarelli.)

That concludes the 1st season of Chiarelli trades.
He did get 2 defenseman that would help the Bruins win a cup 3 years later but in doing so he gave up a better defenseman (Brad Stuart) along with wingers Versteeg (2 cups) and Boyes (40 goal scorer), and 2 picks that would become TJ Brodie (top 4 D) and Jamie Benn (another 40 goal scorer).
He was a prolific trader who lost almost all his trades this 1st year including giving up 2 40 goal scoring wingers.

2nd year:
1) 6th round for 6th round - (a wash as both non-NHLers)
2) 2nd (Cross) for 2nd and 3rd - (a wash as all 3 are non-NHLers)
3) Fernandez for Kalus and 4th (Fallstrom) - (a win, Fernandez had a good, final NHL year with the Bruins)
4) Schaefer for Donovan - (a wash)
5) Soderberg for Toivonen - (a win as Soderberg is a quality 3rd line C)
6) Nokelainen for Walter and 2nd - (a wash)
7) Saunders and Skinner for Mowers - (a wash)
8) Auld for DiCasmirro and 5th - (another short term goalie win as Auld had a good year for Boston)
9) Hnidy and 6th (Tremblay) for Bochenski - (a win as Hnidy would have a good season and a half for the Bruins before leaving for MN--came back for 6 games during the cup run but that is not a result of this trade)

That's the end of the 2nd season as GM of the Bruins. Chiarelli got much better at trading as he didn't lose any and did get some short term wins. This is where Don Sweeney now sits entering his 3rd season as GM. It's tough to compare what Sweeney gave up and got back in return (picks) as we have to see if they turn into NHLers but so far it does not look as bad as Chiarelli in his first couple of years.

Chiarelli's lauded NHL pro scout trading skills happened much later as we get closer to the cup year. His early trading years strategy seemed to be to just throw as many darts on the board as you can and see what sticks. This was fairly disaterous that 1st year, somewhat neutral in the 2nd, and gets better starting in the 3rd year when he gets Recchi, Paille, and Seidenberg--however he also traded Ward for Eaves and immediately bought Eaves out while also being forced to trade Kessel in what seemed like a loss but turned into a win down the road as Toronto tanked.

 

[C77]

I'd flip Backes to center and call up Heinen

Don't get it

Also, someday Cehlarik may be one of best forwards on this team

I was late to the party on him but he looks like he's got pretty much everything

If Backes doesn't move over at this point then it is clear that the preseason articles about him moving to center were wrong.

Haven't been able to watch Cehlarik much but the reports are good.

 

[BruinDust]

10) McQuaid (3 years before he plays 1st NHL game) for 5th round pick (Jamie Benn - 2 years before he plays 1st NHL game) - (a loss - Crazy when you realize Dallas got their top 2 players from Boston thanks to Chiarelli.)

You lost me when you try to frame your argument that the McQuaid deal was a "loss" for Chiarelli.

How in the heck was he suppose to know that a 5th round pick was suppose to turn into a player the caliber of Jamie Benn? He didn't even trade it to Dallas, they got it from Columbus.

He didn't trade Jamie Benn, he just so happened to trade the pick that got traded to Dallas that ended up being Benn.

A 5th round pick for 9 years (or more) of service from Adam McQuaid is a win every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[ODAAT]

You lost me when you try to frame your argument that the McQuaid deal was a "loss" for Chiarelli.

How in the heck was he suppose to know that a 5th round pick was suppose to turn into a player the caliber of Jamie Benn? He didn't even trade it to Dallas, they got it from Columbus.

He didn't trade Jamie Benn, he just so happened to trade the pick that got traded to Dallas that ended up being Benn.

A 5th round pick for 9 years (or more) of service from Adam McQuaid is a win every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Good post, I think another one of Chia`s moves that was similar to Quaider was the acquisition of Boychuk. I want to say they got him for Matt Hendricks but wouldn`t be shocked if I`m incorrect about that. Turned out to be a pretty great deal

 

[DNE3]

Man I gotta hand it to Sweeney, the amateur scouting has been elite. If the pro decisions were even 50% as good we'd be unstoppable. It's to the point where next year we will need a trade to fit these kids. And actually THIS is why we didn't need Backes. He's going to be made obsolete by younger cheaper talent that should be playing.

Matthew Barzal could be centering line three in Boston right now instead of playing for Islanders. But Sweeney swung and missed on the consensus pick at number 15 in '15. Can't win them all, but never pass on the no-brainers.

 

[Gordoff]

I wouldn’t give up on Senyshyn yet. He has ideal NHL size/speed, just needs some seasoning. A year in PRO should do wonders for him.

I guess after Heinen comes up, gets points, and goes back down, he will be included in every trade proposal for the foreseeable future? How about the B’s keep Heinen and deal a couple guys that make more and aren’t producing.

Sounds good. Who are we talking about? Who wants these overpriced slackers and if it's so easy why hasn't Donnie pulled the trigger?

 

[BruinDust]

Good post, I think another one of Chia`s moves that was similar to Quaider was the acquisition of Boychuk. I want to say they got him for Matt Hendricks but wouldn`t be shocked if I`m incorrect about that. Turned out to be a pretty great deal

I believe it was Hendricks they moved for Boychuk. One of his best deals.

 

[ODAAT]

I believe it was Hendricks they moved for Boychuk. One of his best deals.

He definitely made the right deals at the right time. Always an element of luck, no way he could have imagined he`d have a top 4 guy in JB and a 5/6th in Quaider when he made those moves.

Now, for all the good Chia did, handing out those contracts like chicklets, most/many with NMC/NTC`s left most of us here with a sour taste

 

[BruinDust]

He definitely made the right deals at the right time. Always an element of luck, no way he could have imagined he`d have a top 4 guy in JB and a 5/6th in Quaider when he made those moves.

Now, for all the good Chia did, handing out those contracts like chicklets, most/many with NMC/NTC`s left most of us here with a sour taste

Chia fell in love with his 2011 cup winning team, and went on a signing spree coming off the cup win for none-core players.

I recall him expressing his admiration for the Detroit model of keeping groups together long-term, like the Wings did holding onto Draper, Maltby, etc.

Too bad that model he appreciated so much was a pre-salary cap model.

 

[whatsbruin]

People love to talk about how great a trader Peter Chiarelli was for the Bruins but if you actually go back and look, he has a very checkered history.
Trades collected from: http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Boston_Bruins/1

In order with who the Bruins received on the left.
1st year:
1) Chistov for a 2008 3rd round pick (non-NHLer) - (seems like Rinaldo for 3rd to me)
2) Sauve for Redenbach - (a wash)
3) Unfulfilled Future Considerations for Wade Brookbank - (can't remember if this was salary dump but likely so)
4) 5th round (Denis Reul) for Yan Stastny - (a wash)
5) 4th round (about to be traded) for Jurcina - (I liked Jurcina but a wash)
6) Bochenski for Versteeg - (a major blunder)
7) Ference and Kobasew for Primeau, Brad Stuart, and that 4th from above (TJ Brodie was picked) - (part salary dump but also the start of the traded picks becoming great players trend that haunts Chiarelli - I'd call this a loss)
8) Aaron Ward for Paul Mara - (a wash)
9) Wideman for Boyes - (I think a loss as Boyes was an awesome winger for Bergeron but most consider a wash)
10) McQuaid (3 years before he plays 1st NHL game) for 5th round pick (Jamie Benn - 2 years before he plays 1st NHL game) - (a loss - Crazy when you realize Dallas got their top 2 players from Boston thanks to Chiarelli.)

That concludes the 1st season of Chiarelli trades.
He did get 2 defenseman that would help the Bruins win a cup 3 years later but in doing so he gave up a better defenseman (Brad Stuart) along with wingers Versteeg (2 cups) and Boyes (40 goal scorer), and 2 picks that would become TJ Brodie (top 4 D) and Jamie Benn (another 40 goal scorer).
He was a prolific trader who lost almost all his trades this 1st year including giving up 2 40 goal scoring wingers.

2nd year:
1) 6th round for 6th round - (a wash as both non-NHLers)
2) 2nd (Cross) for 2nd and 3rd - (a wash as all 3 are non-NHLers)
3) Fernandez for Kalus and 4th (Fallstrom) - (a win, Fernandez had a good, final NHL year with the Bruins)
4) Schaefer for Donovan - (a wash)
5) Soderberg for Toivonen - (a win as Soderberg is a quality 3rd line C)
6) Nokelainen for Walter and 2nd - (a wash)
7) Saunders and Skinner for Mowers - (a wash)
8) Auld for DiCasmirro and 5th - (another short term goalie win as Auld had a good year for Boston)
9) Hnidy and 6th (Tremblay) for Bochenski - (a win as Hnidy would have a good season and a half for the Bruins before leaving for MN--came back for 6 games during the cup run but that is not a result of this trade)

That's the end of the 2nd season as GM of the Bruins. Chiarelli got much better at trading as he didn't lose any and did get some short term wins. This is where Don Sweeney now sits entering his 3rd season as GM. It's tough to compare what Sweeney gave up and got back in return (picks) as we have to see if they turn into NHLers but so far it does not look as bad as Chiarelli in his first couple of years.

Chiarelli's lauded NHL pro scout trading skills happened much later as we get closer to the cup year. His early trading years strategy seemed to be to just throw as many darts on the board as you can and see what sticks. This was fairly disaterous that 1st year, somewhat neutral in the 2nd, and gets better starting in the 3rd year when he gets Recchi, Paille, and Seidenberg--however he also traded Ward for Eaves and immediately bought Eaves out while also being forced to trade Kessel in what seemed like a loss but turned into a win down the road as Toronto tanked.

He was good before the Stanley Cup.
He was horrific after.

 

[LouJersey]

Matthew Barzal could be centering line three in Boston right now instead of playing for Islanders. But Sweeney swung and missed on the consensus pick at number 15 in '15. Can't win them all, but never pass on the no-brainers.

I can't tell if you are trolling of if you are serious. I live close to Brooklyn would you like me to pick up tickets to his jersey retiring ceremony? Put it between Trottier and Bossy? Should take place any game now, yes?

 

[00BW]

You lost me when you try to frame your argument that the McQuaid deal was a "loss" for Chiarelli.

How in the heck was he suppose to know that a 5th round pick was suppose to turn into a player the caliber of Jamie Benn? He didn't even trade it to Dallas, they got it from Columbus.

He didn't trade Jamie Benn, he just so happened to trade the pick that got traded to Dallas that ended up being Benn.

A 5th round pick for 9 years (or more) of service from Adam McQuaid is a win every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

It's the same as 3 years from now when people will compare Sweeney trading a 2015 5th (Kirill Kaprizov) for the Wild's 2016 5th (Cam Clarke) giving the Wild their current best prospect. Yes, it's just a 5th for a 5th but the end result might be Sweeney's worst trade but time will tell.
It's the same logic used with the Kessel trade. Go back and read the media and fan reports and everyone thought Toronto won that trade by only promising future picks which set the Bruins back a couple years. But 2 disastrous Toronto seasons later and the Bruins won that trade by picking #2 (Seguin) and #9 (Hamilton) overall. The Bruins suffered without Kessel the 1st year and Seguin's slow adaptation to the NHL the second year--though he was a key contributor to the Cup win. Either you compare trades with their immediate impact or you compare them with their end results. You cannot cherry pick from both and everyone now believes the Bruins won that trade--which you can only do by the players picked.

But the overall point stands. We judge Chiarelli by his Pro Trades over his entire tenure as Bruins GM but compare the first 2 years with Sweeney's and they are about equal. His 3rd and 4th years have key trades that culminated with a Cup in his 4th year. A Cup justifies all trades leading up to it including his bad 1st year trades and the Kaberle trade which is why we look back fondly to the Cup he delivered.

 

[BruinDust]

It's the same as 3 years from now when people will compare Sweeney trading a 2015 5th (Kirill Kaprizov) for the Wild's 2016 5th (Cam Clarke) giving the Wild their current best prospect. Yes, it's just a 5th for a 5th but the end result might be Sweeney's worst trade but time will tell.
It's the same logic used with the Kessel trade. Go back and read the media and fan reports and everyone thought Toronto won that trade by only promising future picks which set the Bruins back a couple years. But 2 disastrous Toronto seasons later and the Bruins won that trade by picking #2 (Seguin) and #9 (Hamilton) overall. The Bruins suffered without Kessel the 1st year and Seguin's slow adaptation to the NHL the second year--though he was a key contributor to the Cup win. Either you compare trades with their immediate impact or you compare them with their end results. You cannot cherry pick from both and everyone now believes the Bruins won that trade--which you can only do by the players picked.

But the overall point stands. We judge Chiarelli by his Pro Trades over his entire tenure as Bruins GM but compare the first 2 years with Sweeney's and they are about equal. His 3rd and 4th years have key trades that culminated with a Cup in his 4th year. A Cup justifies all trades leading up to it including his bad 1st year trades and the Kaberle trade which is why we look back fondly to the Cup he delivered.

I'm not advocating for Chiarelli, but jeez you can't use the McQuaid for a 5th to CBJ as any sort of evidence against him because Dallas got lucky and picked Benn. To make it worse he didn't even trade the pick to Dallas.

You want to talk logic, using this deal to sway an argument against the job Chiarelli did is messed up logic. Period.

 

[DNE3]

I can't tell if you are trolling of if you are serious. I live close to Brooklyn would you like me to pick up tickets to his jersey retiring ceremony? Put it between Trottier and Bossy? Should take place any game now, yes?

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/the-top-10-nhl-prospects-for-2017-18

No troll no way. Barzal playing NHL at age 21, and was as close to consensus pick as you could get at number 15 back in '15. And we know where to find Zach working on his game.

 

[LouJersey]

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/the-top-10-nhl-prospects-for-2017-18

No troll no way. Barzal playing NHL at age 21, and as close to consensus pick as you can get at number 15 back in '15. And we know where to find Zach working on his game.

I loved Barzal, RLR had him 7 overall I think, and yes was the consensus choice there, and also about 7 slots higher. Several teams passed on him. I will wait to see what happens before I deem one better than the other.

My picks were Zboril-Barzal-Connor, but I did love JDB as well thanks to Patty59. Pronman is terrible however.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

People love to talk about how great a trader Peter Chiarelli was for the Bruins but if you actually go back and look, he has a very checkered history.
Trades collected from: http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/Boston_Bruins/1

In order with who the Bruins received on the left.
1st year:
1) Chistov for a 2008 3rd round pick (non-NHLer) - (seems like Rinaldo for 3rd to me)
2) Sauve for Redenbach - (a wash)
3) Unfulfilled Future Considerations for Wade Brookbank - (can't remember if this was salary dump but likely so)
4) 5th round (Denis Reul) for Yan Stastny - (a wash)
5) 4th round (about to be traded) for Jurcina - (I liked Jurcina but a wash)
6) Bochenski for Versteeg - (a major blunder)
7) Ference and Kobasew for Primeau, Brad Stuart, and that 4th from above (TJ Brodie was picked) - (part salary dump but also the start of the traded picks becoming great players trend that haunts Chiarelli - I'd call this a loss)
8) Aaron Ward for Paul Mara - (a wash)
9) Wideman for Boyes - (I think a loss as Boyes was an awesome winger for Bergeron but most consider a wash)
10) McQuaid (3 years before he plays 1st NHL game) for 5th round pick (Jamie Benn - 2 years before he plays 1st NHL game) - (a loss - Crazy when you realize Dallas got their top 2 players from Boston thanks to Chiarelli.)

That concludes the 1st season of Chiarelli trades.
He did get 2 defenseman that would help the Bruins win a cup 3 years later but in doing so he gave up a better defenseman (Brad Stuart) along with wingers Versteeg (2 cups) and Boyes (40 goal scorer), and 2 picks that would become TJ Brodie (top 4 D) and Jamie Benn (another 40 goal scorer).
He was a prolific trader who lost almost all his trades this 1st year including giving up 2 40 goal scoring wingers.

2nd year:
1) 6th round for 6th round - (a wash as both non-NHLers)
2) 2nd (Cross) for 2nd and 3rd - (a wash as all 3 are non-NHLers)
3) Fernandez for Kalus and 4th (Fallstrom) - (a win, Fernandez had a good, final NHL year with the Bruins)
4) Schaefer for Donovan - (a wash)
5) Soderberg for Toivonen - (a win as Soderberg is a quality 3rd line C)
6) Nokelainen for Walter and 2nd - (a wash)
7) Saunders and Skinner for Mowers - (a wash)
8) Auld for DiCasmirro and 5th - (another short term goalie win as Auld had a good year for Boston)
9) Hnidy and 6th (Tremblay) for Bochenski - (a win as Hnidy would have a good season and a half for the Bruins before leaving for MN--came back for 6 games during the cup run but that is not a result of this trade)

That's the end of the 2nd season as GM of the Bruins. Chiarelli got much better at trading as he didn't lose any and did get some short term wins. This is where Don Sweeney now sits entering his 3rd season as GM. It's tough to compare what Sweeney gave up and got back in return (picks) as we have to see if they turn into NHLers but so far it does not look as bad as Chiarelli in his first couple of years.

Chiarelli's lauded NHL pro scout trading skills happened much later as we get closer to the cup year. His early trading years strategy seemed to be to just throw as many darts on the board as you can and see what sticks. This was fairly disaterous that 1st year, somewhat neutral in the 2nd, and gets better starting in the 3rd year when he gets Recchi, Paille, and Seidenberg--however he also traded Ward for Eaves and immediately bought Eaves out while also being forced to trade Kessel in what seemed like a loss but turned into a win down the road as Toronto tanked.

Appreciate the effort with this, but its ludicrous to blame Chiarelli for Jamie Benn. Go and look up how many 5th round picks are better than Adam McQuaid, and have had a long career like him, then go look at how many Jamie Benn level stars have been selected in the 5th round. If this draft were re done, 29 teams would reconsider their picks in the first round (Kane is still first, obviously). If you told me I'd get a solid stay at home d man that will be in the organization for 7+ years playing steady D then I'd trade a 5th round pick for that immediately.

If you're using Benn as an example, you need to criticize 28 other GMs as well for not selecting him in the first 4 rounds.