Management Don Sweeney VI

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/the-top-10-nhl-prospects-for-2017-18

No troll no way. Barzal playing NHL at age 21, and was as close to consensus pick as you could get at number 15 back in '15. And we know where to find Zach working on his game.

Yes I agree with this. Zboril was a no brainer at 13, but I really wanted Barzal at 14/15. JFK is great but he doesnt have the top line upside Barzal does IMO, and I think the same about Frederic.

 

[LouJersey]

Yes I agree with this. Zboril was a no brainer at 13, but I really wanted Barzal at 14/15. JFK is great but he doesnt have the top line upside Barzal does IMO, and I think the same about Frederic.

I think Barzal's durability, frame and shot may have been called into question on teams draft boards? He has elite skating and hockey sense, but I'm wondering if some just saw him as a perimeter player? He also can't play wing at this level (IMO of course), so he's a top 2 centerman or bust IMO. I do like him though, and while we certainly may have missed the boat on him I think it's too early to tell.

 

[BruinDust]

I think Barzal's durability, frame and shot may have been called into question on teams draft boards? He has elite skating and hockey sense, but I'm wondering if some just saw him as a perimeter player? He also can't play wing at this level (IMO of course), so he's a top 2 centerman or bust IMO. I do like him though, and while we certainly may have missed the boat on him I think it's too early to tell.

Just based on his face-off totals from his 5 games played this season, looks like he's playing wing for the Islanders right now.

Whether he's effective there, or will stay there, is another story.

I really have no idea, but he could end up a winger his whole career depending on how his two-way develops. Mitch Marner (somewhat similar player) was a C in juniors and looks to be a RW in the NHL.

I agree though it's too early to tell what Barzal will become, if anything.

 

[LouJersey]

Just based on his face-off totals from his 5 games played this season, looks like he's playing wing for the Islanders right now.

Whether he's effective there, or will stay there, is another story.

I really have no idea, but he could end up a winger his whole career depending on how his two-way develops. Mitch Marner (somewhat similar player) was a C in juniors and looks to be a RW in the NHL.

I agree though it's too early to tell what Barzal will become, if anything.

No he plays center, I've seen him take quite a few face-offs, he's just not very good. he also doesn't get many D-zone starts.

 

[LouJersey]

First six career NHL games.

Marner 6-1-2-3
Nylander 6-2-0-2

Bjork 6-3-2-5
JDB 6-2-2-4

 

[loozer]

accidental double tap, read below.

 

[loozer]

It's the same as 3 years from now when people will compare Sweeney trading a 2015 5th (Kirill Kaprizov) for the Wild's 2016 5th (Cam Clarke) giving the Wild their current best prospect. Yes, it's just a 5th for a 5th but the end result might be Sweeney's worst trade but time will tell.
It's the same logic used with the Kessel trade. Go back and read the media and fan reports and everyone thought Toronto won that trade by only promising future picks which set the Bruins back a couple years. But 2 disastrous Toronto seasons later and the Bruins won that trade by picking #2 (Seguin) and #9 (Hamilton) overall. The Bruins suffered without Kessel the 1st year and Seguin's slow adaptation to the NHL the second year--though he was a key contributor to the Cup win. Either you compare trades with their immediate impact or you compare them with their end results. You cannot cherry pick from both and everyone now believes the Bruins won that trade--which you can only do by the players picked.

But the overall point stands. We judge Chiarelli by his Pro Trades over his entire tenure as Bruins GM but compare the first 2 years with Sweeney's and they are about equal. His 3rd and 4th years have key trades that culminated with a Cup in his 4th year. A Cup justifies all trades leading up to it including his bad 1st year trades and the Kaberle trade which is why we look back fondly to the Cup he delivered.

Those examples do nothing to support your argument. That 5th for a 5th trade in a few years will look like what it is regardless of the player, an even trade. The bruins had a ton of top end draft picks and wanted to space out there prospects a little more so they find someone to swap 2015 picks with.

The Toronto trade was a loss for the Leafs not because of who Boston drafted but because they traded two top 10 picks for Phil Kessel. They thought their team was good enough that those picks would have been late 1st rounders. I would argue that had they been late first rounders the leafs would have won that trade. So that trade isn't a loss because the Bruins got Hamilton and Seguin, it's a loss because the player you usually get from top 10 picks is usually as valuable as phil kessel, so if you get two of them you won the deal.

Teams have different draft lists trying to compare a trade that involves picks based on who was picked is a flawed analysis because there is no indication your team would have drafted the same player. That's why the analysis should be based on the expected value of the pick, unless you have a very good reason to believe they would have drafted player x, in which case I would like to see that evidence. If you would like to argue that for a long time the bruins amateur scouting sucked. That I can get behind.

 

[DominicT]

Just based on his face-off totals from his 5 games played this season, looks like he's playing wing for the Islanders right now.

Whether he's effective there, or will stay there, is another story.

I really have no idea, but he could end up a winger his whole career depending on how his two-way develops. Mitch Marner (somewhat similar player) was a C in juniors and looks to be a RW in the NHL.

I agree though it's too early to tell what Barzal will become, if anything.

Not true. Mitch Marner was predominantly a right winger in Junior, Christian Dvorak was his center his last two seasons in London.

 

[BruinDust]

Not true. Mitch Marner was predominantly a right winger in Junior, Christian Dvorak was his center his last two seasons in London.

Oh, I recall when he got to Toronto this time last year there was a debate whether he'd be a C or RW at the NHL level, so I must of assumed he played C a fair bit in Junior.

 

[Era of Sanity]

You like me and everyone else is free to assign credit and blame as it relates to all things good, bad, and indifferent as relates to the Bruins draft

I am comfortable few have the information and bsck stories on this as me and I'll say it's more probable then not that Don Sweeney gets a corner piece with frosting when they cut up this cake on many of these guys- and there is cake for many

If I come off as a Dick I wear the crown proudly

There is a large sized metaphorical cake of blame from the drafting years of Chiarelli as well. Not trying to be a richard, just a straight question, do the sources say Sweeney was at fault for any of the bad choices?

 

[DKH]

There is a large sized metaphorical cake of blame from the drafting years of Chiarelli as well. Not trying to be a richard, just a straight question, do the sources say Sweeney was at fault forany of the bad choices?

Of course but we both know HF Boards is unbalanced and this is already in the equation- what is not is Sweeney getting any credit for anything Chiarelli did well

The Law of HF Boards

 

[JP Nolan]

Rask and Boychuck are two of the greatest steals ever and Add in the Horton deal and drafting Lucic and Marchand.........LOL, Sweeney cant even hold Chiarelli's jock strap to this point....Some people forget the Cup i guess. I will never ever forget that cup and Chiarelli gets props forever.

Lets see if Sweeney can even make an impact trade.

 

[Era of Sanity]

Of course but we both know HF Boards is unbalanced and this is already in the equation- what is not is Sweeney getting any credit for anything Chiarelli did well

The Law of HF Boards

I feel like Chiarelli gets a fair amount of blame and is thought of as a buffoon on here which is a bit harsh but I am certainly not saying he doesn't deserve some blame because he does. I was skeptical of Sweeney initially but I have to give him big props for the drafting so far, I do want things to improve on the pro side (him and his staff). If he and he does we have a good shot of going right back to another 2008-14 window in the next year or two.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Rask and Boychuck are two of the greatest steals ever and Add in the Horton deal and drafting Lucic and Marchand.........LOL, Sweeney cant even hold Chiarelli's jock strap to this point....Some people forget the Cup i guess. I will never ever forget that cup and Chiarelli gets props forever.

Lets see if Sweeney can even make an impact trade.

Give me a break. No one forgets the Cup. Just because he helped bring a Cup here doesn't mean he wasn't brutal at the end of his tenure. He had some great moves, and some awful moves. He really fell off at the end...It's okay to admit that.

 

[DKH]

Rask and Boychuck are two of the greatest steals ever and Add in the Horton deal and drafting Lucic and Marchand.........LOL, Sweeney cant even hold Chiarelli's jock strap to this point....Some people forget the Cup i guess. I will never ever forget that cup and Chiarelli gets props forever.

Lets see if Sweeney can even make an impact trade.

Who forgot the Cup lol

 

[ON3M4N]

PC was just awful at drafting, that was my biggest issue with him and his team. That and he threw NTC/NMC around like they were nothing.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Sweeney has done a great job drafting. Just look at the lineup. Bjork, Heinen (in and out should be in). Cehlarik called up, Bjork, DeBrusk, Carlo, McAvoy, Kuraly, bringing back Dobby. Letting Claude go was big boy pant stuff and the right call, I supported. Letting Cassidy make the on ice change to a quicker team and supporting him with the skill and building on the fly. We are not Toronto fielding a Junior B team and still sellout the seats while selling out in the standing.

 

[ON3M4N]

Sweeney has done a great job drafting. Just look at the lineup. Bjork, Heinen (in and out should be in). Cehlarik called up, Bjork, DeBrusk, Carlo, McAvoy, Kuraly, bringing back Dobby. Letting Claude go was big boy pant stuff and the right call, I supported. Letting Cassidy make the on ice change to a quicker team and supporting him with the skill and building on the fly. We are not Toronto fielding a Junior B team and still sellout the seats while selling out in the standing.

Actually Bjork and Heinen were technically PC picks

 

[PlayMakers]

Actually Bjork and Heinen were technically PC picks

That 2014 draft was amazing. Pasta, Donato, Bjork, Heinen and Johansson. I bet all five picks make it to the NHL. Fwiw, Cehlarik was also on Battleford's list and was drafted on Chiarelli's watch.

That said, credit where credit is due, Sweeney has done a good job drafting: Carlo, McAvoy, DeBrusk, JFK, Frederic, Lauzon, Senyshyn, Zboril, Gabrielle... Sweeney got what he wanted, a boat load of prospects in the stable... it will be interesting to see what he does next.

Not many teams get to the top without making some fairly significant roster shaping trades, and honestly, the roster feels a little chaotic with all the capable bodies vying for the same spots.

 

[Alan Ryan]

I`m liking what I heard about Fitzgerald/JFK too , not to mention kids who`ll be coming up the pipeline soon in Studsy, Donato. Now if DS could only get that pro scouting department to be as sound as the amateur scouting, he`d be onto something. Looking like he`s setting himself up the middle too

and the D???? Don`t get me started, so optimistic and excited about what "could" be down the road very soon

I like the look of pro acquisition Agostino thus far. Also like Nash, Schaller and Kuraly—they all play their role nicely.

 

[PlayMakers]

I don't know Alan, I find his work at the pro level... schizophrenic.

He says he wants to play fast, but he signs big, heavy guys like Nash, Backes, Schaller, Beleskey.

He says he wants a defense that tranitions well, but he re-signs and/or protects guys like Kevan Miller and Adam McQuaid. Postma's another slow footed D.

I have to say, I'm not a fan of Dobby either. He looked shaky as hell last night and I even said to my son when we were up 4-1 that the game wasn't over. Dobby was fighting it, missing pucks, mishandling pucks, coughing up rebounds... I really hope McIntyre can come in here and take another step in his development and win a few games because Dobby makes me nervous as hell.

I really hope Sweeney elevates his pro game this season. He's got all sorts of assets at his disposal, he can build any kind of team he wants. He needs to get down to the hard choices and tough decisions. Move out a vet that he can replace from within. Pick which prospects best suit his vision for how he wants this team to play and move the guys that don't fit before you lose them for nothing.

 

[Alan Ryan]

Speed is good but I like the balance that the big, heavy players provide.

 

[ashnathan]

I think in hindsight Sweeney's worst move was drafting Zboril over Chabot. That much seems clear. But Zboril was having a big year an fit the mould better at the time (more snarl) but I think both of them were literally a dead heat and a sure thing, we just ended up taking the wrong one.

 

[KrejciMVP]

That 2014 draft was amazing. Pasta, Donato, Bjork, Heinen and Johansson. I bet all five picks make it to the NHL. Fwiw, Cehlarik was also on Battleford's list and was drafted on Chiarelli's watch.

That said, credit where credit is due, Sweeney has done a good job drafting: Carlo, McAvoy, DeBrusk, JFK, Frederic, Lauzon, Senyshyn, Zboril, Gabrielle... Sweeney got what he wanted, a boat load of prospects in the stable... it will be interesting to see what he does next.

Not many teams get to the top without making some fairly significant roster shaping trades, and honestly, the roster feels a little chaotic with all the capable bodies vying for the same spots.

Chia definitely set the Bruins up well for the future with that 2014 draft. Didn't even have a top pick. I'm just glad fans recognize this.

 

[ODAAT]

I like the look of pro acquisition Agostino thus far. Also like Nash, Schaller and Kuraly—they all play their role nicely.

Perhaps I`m being hard on the guy and maybe my expectations are too high, wanting/expecting an "impact" kind of move at some point. The flip side of things is he and his scouts seem to be so strong at identifying kids to draft that perhaps I`m allowing for that to sway me too much when trying to grade his pro acquisitions.

I`m one fan who doesn`t have many issues with DS, I think initially he made some mistakes, we can all agree the Rinaldo move was the opposite of good although I tried my best to defend/understand why he felt his addition could help the B`s. I think he reacted too quickly to move Dougie but also acknowledge he might have just panicked when they offered him a deal (If I recall correctly for more than what the Flames signed him for?) and that`s when he was informed Dougie had no interest in playing for the B`s.

I`m still not sure what lead Hamilton to want out so badly? Anyways, I see yearly improvement on his decision making from the GM chair, I actually liked his discipline this summer, not jumping in and over spending on an UFA. I think his big picture plan is just now starting to really come into focus, drafting smart, developing then promoting the kids around a solid core of veteran players. The only "problem" with that approach is it takes time, these kids seem to be more NHL ready than years ago but that doesn`t mean they are able to line up the year after their amateur careers are done for the NHL team.