Management Don Sweeney VI

[DKH]

So when he signs guys that don't work out he can just say "well how was I supposed to know?" . That's how it works? Pretty sweet gig.

I think unfortunately for Sweeney it's a bit more results-oriented business. It's on his pro scouting team and him to make sure his signings/acquisitions will work out, and so far their combined track record is terrible. Can only get away with that for so long.

if the Bruins beat Vancouver though he's doing a great job

 

[DKH]

Sooner had value a few years ago. He also clearly was not going to fit into the Clode system and wouldn't help the Bruins in that time frame.

So Don held onto him until he busted instead of getting any value out of him.

My problem with Sweeney's management is that following Chiarelli's demolition of a championship contender, he's just maintaining this middle of the pack position which can become a death cycle. Finish between 6-10 in the conference, lose in the first round if you're lucky, get an average draft pick, keeping you in that mediocre range.

How did you get to be so smart?

Do you eat a lot of salmon ?

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

It's probably too late, but Duchene for Carlo would look absolutely fine to me right now.

Carlo, Spooner, prospect (Cave?), and a 1st
for
Duchene, Bigras/Nemeth/Zadorov/Barberio, and a mid pick

Marchand-Bergeron-Backes
DeBrusk-Krejci-Pastrnak
Beleskey-Duchene-Bjork
Schaller-Kuraly-Heinen

Chara-McAvoy
Krug-Miller
???-McQuaid

I want Duchene but not at that price, not for two seasons, and not to be our 3rd line center!!

 

[CombatOnContact]

Moving Carlo for Duchene looks even worse now than it did a month ago.

Unless Duchene is a pure two-year rental, if you extend him, and then have to hand out new deals to Debrusk and Bjork in 2020, all of sudden the forward group is VERY expensive, and you're D is pretty thin.

If I had to bet, Backes and Krejci are here for the duration of their deals until summer 2021.

They have NOTHING in the system at RD, just a few marginal D prospects in Clarke, Bukac, and Berglund to fill in the gap by losing Carlo in the long-term. McQuaid is gone by then, Miller will be UFA in 2020.

The organization is set-up so that the RD will be fairly consistent the next few years, meanwhile we'll hopefully see Chara's role reduced and eventually he'll be gone, and you hope that they hit on a couple of the numerous LD prospects. I see no reason for Sweeney to mess with his set-up for a player the caliber of a Matt Duchene.

All great points. Wasn't really thinking/looking at long-term picture. Which is why I'm not a GM after all... Just looking at the lack of pure skill/speed in the forward group and overall depth on D. Though most D don't appear imminently ready, it seems to me that there is a deep enough pool. Whether they are R or L D, I'm not certain, but some should be able to play either side, regardless of their handedness, no?

Anyway, some pure skill/speed would be great to have on this team. Maybe the youngsters develop that... hopeful. Duchene definitely provides that. There would be salary cap issues with re-signing him after next year though that is for sure...

 

[KrejciMVP]

Time for Sweeney to get a top-6 W.

What could you get for Spooner+1st?

Marchand-Bergy-Pasta
DeBrusk-Krejci-Trade
Cehlarik/Heinen-Backes-Bjork

I think they will soon be forced to make a move, hopefully this month

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I don’t make any panic moves at this point, and certainly not without seeing Bergeron in the lineup, pushing Nash back down into the Bottom 6, where he should be. Before dealing any assets, I would like to see something like this (if Spooner is out):

Marchand-Bergy-Bjork
Cehlarik-Krejci-Pasta
DeBrusk-Nash-Heinen
Schaller/Beleskey-Kuraly-White

 

[Glove Malfunction]

I don’t make any panic moves at this point, and certainly not without seeing Bergeron in the lineup, pushing Nash back down into the Bottom 6, where he should be. Before dealing any assets, I would like to see something like this (if Spooner is out):

Marchand-Bergy-Bjork
Cehlarik-Krejci-Pasta
DeBrusk-Nash-Heinen
Schaller/Beleskey-Kuraly-White

Wouldn't mind seeing something along those lines at all, Joe. At least for a few games to see how it shakes out. Though Beleskey can watch the game in a suit.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Wouldn't mind seeing something along those lines at all, Joe. At least for a few games to see how it shakes out. Though Beleskey can watch the game in a suit.

My thought process (if anyone is interested, lol) is that with those lines you only have one youngster on each of the top two lines (rather than having DK with two). I think this takes some pressure off the rooks and doesn’t leave the one vet thinking that he’s got to be looking out for the rookies (rather than just playing his game). Also, while Cehlarik didn’t light it up with 46 and 88, they did seem to have good chemistry.

I am willing to put Nash with the two rookies on the third line because he’s a D first guy anyway and that line will be facing lesser competition. Both DeBrusk and Heinen have shown some offensive ability but also appear to be 3 zone guys as well. The 4th line is defensively responsible, has some speed and a couple of guys that can bang.

I don’t want to wait too long, but I also don’t want to give up assets if you have some in-house guys (Cehlarik, Heinen, DeBrusk, Bjork) that could do a similar job.

 

[LouJersey]

I don’t make any panic moves at this point, and certainly not without seeing Bergeron in the lineup, pushing Nash back down into the Bottom 6, where he should be. Before dealing any assets, I would like to see something like this (if Spooner is out):

Marchand-Bergy-Bjork
Cehlarik-Krejci-Pasta
DeBrusk-Nash-Heinen
Schaller/Beleskey-Kuraly-White

Fantastic job JC... Love these lines...

 

[LouJersey]

I'm confused on something. The Bruins stink, but people want to trade their 1st round pick in the upcoming draft? The way people are making it sound around here, that pick is a lead pipe lock to be top 5, no?

 

[DKH]

I'm confused on something. The Bruins stink, but people want to trade their 1st round pick in the upcoming draft? The way people are making it sound around here, that pick is a lead pipe lock to be top 5, no?

Pittsburgh

5 Whitney
1 Fleury
2 Malkin
1 Cosby
2 Staal

Chicago

3 Barker
7 Skille
3 Toews
1 Kane

We need to bottom out for 4 years to build a core

Let's do it I'm all in but I want the Pittsburgh model four top 2 picks

I'm all for blowing it up unless we win Thursday then I want to be buyers and go for it

 

[KrejciMVP]

Pittsburgh

5 Whitney
1 Fleury
2 Malkin
1 Cosby
2 Staal

Chicago

3 Barker
7 Skille
3 Toews
1 Kane

We need to bottom out for 4 years to build a core

Let's do it I'm all in but I want the Pittsburgh model four top 2 picks

I'm all for blowing it up unless we win Thursday then I want to be buyers and go for it

I dont think Jacobs could handle all the lost revenue tanking for 4 years. We were lucky to end up with #2 in Seguin. Before that, the last time we had a top pick was Jumbo Joe

 

[DKH]

I dont think Jacobs could handle all the lost revenue tanking for 4 years. We were lucky to end up with #2 in Seguin. Before that, the last time we had a top pick was Jumbo Joe

It's only 4 years and Toronto and Edmonton fans did it

It's not like they will go 0-82 there will still be a handful of great games

 

[KrejciMVP]

It's only 4 years and Toronto and Edmonton fans did it

It's not like they will go 0-82 there will still be a handful of great games

Edmonton and Toronto are hockey towns first, and tickets are very hard to get in TO even when they are last. Leafs have a long culture of losing as well. If the Bruins spend 4 years in the cellar they would probably have to beg boston fans to come to games again. Montreal fan demands a winner bc of their history (even if they do stink). Pitt probably would have went bankrupt if they weren't awarded Malkin and Crosby.

Can't see the Bruins intentionally tanking

 

[Dr Hook]

So when he signs guys that don't work out he can just say "well how was I supposed to know?" . That's how it works? Pretty sweet gig.

I think unfortunately for Sweeney it's a bit more results-oriented business. It's on his pro scouting team and him to make sure his signings/acquisitions will work out, and so far their combined track record is terrible. Can only get away with that for so long.

It's clearly not so simplistic as all that. The point is that the Beleskey signing was a good one initially. Yes @EverettMike was one who didn't like it and apparently saw it turning out like this, but most of us here and around the hockey world seemed to like it. Beleskey was solid for us, not in cost or term probably, but based on his play two seasons ago. So yeah, I would say in this case, it is hard to blame Sweeney for a player suddenly falling apart like Beleskey has. There was nothing to indicate this was going to happen- the Ducks certainly didn't see it when they offered him a 5 year deal which he turned down.

As for overall, I thought the Hayes deal was crap, yep. So a mark against Don, and I didn't care for the JML/Stemp deals. I know there are probably some other poor ones, but balanced against it, I'd say aside from Beleskey which was good at first, Backes was good (term perhaps an issue), Dom Moore was fine, Riley Nash has been solid, the deals for Pasta and Marchand are good ones for the team. Hardly terrible. Could be better, and I hope the pro signing side improves, but it isn't a train wreck.

 

[Alan Ryan]

I don’t make any panic moves at this point, and certainly not without seeing Bergeron in the lineup, pushing Nash back down into the Bottom 6, where he should be. Before dealing any assets, I would like to see something like this (if Spooner is out):

Marchand-Bergy-Bjork
Cehlarik-Krejci-Pasta
DeBrusk-Nash-Heinen
Schaller/Beleskey-Kuraly-White

Good line-up. Worth trying, whether Spooner is out or not.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

It's only 4 years and Toronto and Edmonton fans did it

It's not like they will go 0-82 there will still be a handful of great games

Like a presidential term.

 

[What The Puck]

It's clearly not so simplistic as all that. The point is that the Beleskey signing was a good one initially. Yes @EverettMike was one who didn't like it and apparently saw it turning out like this, but most of us here and around the hockey world seemed to like it. Beleskey was solid for us, not in cost or term probably, but based on his play two seasons ago. So yeah, I would say in this case, it is hard to blame Sweeney for a player suddenly falling apart like Beleskey has. There was nothing to indicate this was going to happen- the Ducks certainly didn't see it when they offered him a 5 year deal which he turned down.

As for overall, I thought the Hayes deal was crap, yep. So a mark against Don, and I didn't care for the JML/Stemp deals. I know there are probably some other poor ones, but balanced against it, I'd say aside from Beleskey which was good at first, Backes was good (term perhaps an issue), Dom Moore was fine, Riley Nash has been solid, the deals for Pasta and Marchand are good ones for the team. Hardly terrible. Could be better, and I hope the pro signing side improves, but it isn't a train wreck.

Beleskey didn't suddenly fall apart. He hit a hot streak in his contract year. I actually did a really good analysis on him as soon as he signed (along with Jimmy Hayes), and I was right about both of them.

Backes is already a mistake, and I called that, too.

You need to give credit to Sweeney when he makes a mistake. And I wasn't aware we were happy about Riley Nash now? I thought for sure the first four games would cure any lingering confusion that this guy isn't NHL material.

 

[DKH]

Like a presidential term.

It's like buying a house

A. Pittsburgh model- five years 5 top five picks and a guaranteed 'fixer upper' if you catch my drift

Or

B. The Chicago model - four years and 3 top three picks

I'm impatient so I will take B

 

[BruinDust]

All great points. Wasn't really thinking/looking at long-term picture. Which is why I'm not a GM after all... Just looking at the lack of pure skill/speed in the forward group and overall depth on D. Though most D don't appear imminently ready, it seems to me that there is a deep enough pool. Whether they are R or L D, I'm not certain, but some should be able to play either side, regardless of their handedness, no?

Anyway, some pure skill/speed would be great to have on this team. Maybe the youngsters develop that... hopeful. Duchene definitely provides that. There would be salary cap issues with re-signing him after next year though that is for sure...

I'm no closer to a GM job than you are.

I think so, I've always contended it depends on the player, so guys can and excell/prefer the off-side, some guys can do it adequately but are better on their natural side, some guys can't do it at all.

One interesting thing is Providence is pretty much ALL LD (Cross, Gryz, O'Gara, Johansson, Lauzon, Zboril) so some of them will have no choice but play their off-side this year in Providence to be in the line-up. Will be interesting to see which guys do, and how well they do it. Maybe it gives the Bruins some options if some can prove they can do it well.

And I'm no against Duchene coming in, he definitely helps, they'll have to clear out Spooner's salary to make it work (fine with me at this stage), even as a two-year rental.

I see something of a mini-window for the Bruins with Carlo and McAvoy on ELCs for the next two years. Sure they and the team have a long way to go, so bringing in Duchene helps there chances of doing some damage the next two seasons.

Problem is, the list of prospects I'd send back Colorado's way shortens every week. McAvoy and Carlo are none-starters, I'd put Bjork and Debrusk in that group as well now. Trading them to bring in Duchene with the hope of winning the next two years is counter-productive and damaging long-term. And the prospects I would send Colorado's way most likely doesn't get it done, some other team will offer more.

And one more wrinkle in the Duchene thing....if Colorado can have a pretty good season, does the trade demand stuff go away? I mean, he grew up an Avalanche fan. Last year was hard for him, but if things are going good for him and the team, maybe he decides to stay.

 

[TorontLoL 67]

I'm no closer to a GM job than you are.

I think so, I've always contended it depends on the player, so guys can and excell/prefer the off-side, some guys can do it adequately but are better on their natural side, some guys can't do it at all.

One interesting thing is Providence is pretty much ALL LD (Cross, Gryz, O'Gara, Johansson, Lauzon, Zboril) so some of them will have no choice but play their off-side this year in Providence to be in the line-up. Will be interesting to see which guys do, and how well they do it. Maybe it gives the Bruins some options if some can prove they can do it well.

And I'm no against Duchene coming in, he definitely helps, they'll have to clear out Spooner's salary to make it work (fine with me at this stage), even as a two-year rental.

I see something of a mini-window for the Bruins with Carlo and McAvoy on ELCs for the next two years. Sure they and the team have a long way to go, so bringing in Duchene helps there chances of doing some damage the next two seasons.

Problem is, the list of prospects I'd send back Colorado's way shortens every week. McAvoy and Carlo are none-starters, I'd put Bjork and Debrusk in that group as well now. Trading them to bring in Duchene with the hope of winning the next two years is counter-productive and damaging long-term. And the prospects I would send Colorado's way most likely doesn't get it done, some other team will offer more.

And one more wrinkle in the Duchene thing....if Colorado can have a pretty good season, does the trade demand stuff go away? I mean, he grew up an Avalanche fan. Last year was hard for him, but if things are going good for him and the team, maybe he decides to stay.

I think he stays in COL this season, but it is a curious thing to think about. He's already been "shopped" and IIRC he also requested a trade? You have to think that seed of doubt has been planted and will now always be there, especially if the team starts to go downhill. He sure would look great in a spoked b though.

 

[BruinDust]

I think he stays in COL this season, but it is a curious thing to think about. He's already been "shopped" and IIRC he also requested a trade? You have to think that seed of doubt has been planted and will now always be there, especially if the team starts to go downhill. He sure would look great in a spoked b though.

My best guess, unless a team steps up with an amazing offer at the deadline, or the Avs completely fall off the map (it is early), I think it goes into the summer and they move him to a team that can negotiate an extension prior to making the trade, which they can't do right now.

 

[Don Cherry]

The last thing we need is to add another high salary player. Luckily for us our GM lacks the guts to make such a trade.

 

[Dr Hook]

Beleskey didn't suddenly fall apart. He hit a hot streak in his contract year. I actually did a really good analysis on him as soon as he signed (along with Jimmy Hayes), and I was right about both of them.

Backes is already a mistake, and I called that, too.

You need to give credit to Sweeney when he makes a mistake. And I wasn't aware we were happy about Riley Nash now? I thought for sure the first four games would cure any lingering confusion that this guy isn't NHL material.

Nash is no top 6 player, but I liked the signing and like the player- so long as he is used where he belongs, 3rd/4th line and PK. I do give credit to Sweeney for his mistakes- I listed a few I thought were not good and I will never argue that the Hayes signing was good. As for Beleskey, he had a hot streak in his contract year okay, but then he followed it with a pretty decent 1st season with us. If he did that again last year, we wouldn't be moaning about him so much. We can agree to disagree on Backes, like we can Riley Nash I guess. I would bet any amount of money that if we put them both on waivers tomorrow at least one NHL GM (not named Don Sweeney) would be right there to pick them up.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

It's clearly not so simplistic as all that. The point is that the Beleskey signing was a good one initially. Yes @EverettMike was one who didn't like it and apparently saw it turning out like this, but most of us here and around the hockey world seemed to like it. Beleskey was solid for us, not in cost or term probably, but based on his play two seasons ago. So yeah, I would say in this case, it is hard to blame Sweeney for a player suddenly falling apart like Beleskey has. There was nothing to indicate this was going to happen- the Ducks certainly didn't see it when they offered him a 5 year deal which he turned down.

As for overall, I thought the Hayes deal was crap, yep. So a mark against Don, and I didn't care for the JML/Stemp deals. I know there are probably some other poor ones, but balanced against it, I'd say aside from Beleskey which was good at first, Backes was good (term perhaps an issue), Dom Moore was fine, Riley Nash has been solid, the deals for Pasta and Marchand are good ones for the team. Hardly terrible. Could be better, and I hope the pro signing side improves, but it isn't a train wreck.

I think Don has a good move for every bad one he's made. If a couple more of his picks turn into players he'll be on the right side of .500. But variance is catching up to his older players, and that was always the reason some of us wanted him to pass on them in the first place.