Player Discussion Dion Phaneuf

[GWNR]

Dion Phaneuf hasn't hit 40pts (or even 35 for that matter) since the 2011-2012 season and has only surpassed 32pts once in the last 8 years.

I stopped reading after I saw Colin Kaepernick.

Thought I'm sure your poitn was equally as silly

 

[IranCondraAffair]

I guess I have much higher expectations than some of you.

I expect, at a bare minimum, he'll do the same thing hes been doing for the last 11 years, play a solid, if unspectacular, 22-24+ minutes per game on all situations.

I'm not expecting perfection, but I think he's going to give Ottawa some better play in the #3 position than they've had in the last 3-4 years.

Points-wise, I think 30 as a floor is reasonable over a full season. The league isn't the same as the one where he put up 60, and he won't be getting a lot of easy PP minutes.

The guy is in great shape, has no major injuries, and hardly misses a game. If Ottawa can get a solid 82 games from Phaneuf, it would go a long way to moving Ottawa to an upper echelon team.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Hoffman is supposedly a huge part of Boucher's PP plan.

With the Phaneuf talk, I bring it up because I wonder if it means Hoffman will play the left point with Karlsson leaving Phaneuf with minimal PP opportunity.

 

[trentmccleary]

Hoffman is supposedly a huge part of Boucher's PP plan.

With the Phaneuf talk, I bring it up because I wonder if it means Hoffman will play the left point with Karlsson leaving Phaneuf with minimal PP opportunity.

Last season
Karlsson 4:38
Hoffman 2:26
Phaneuf in Ottawa 2:23

I think there'd be enough time for both of them. Though obviously one gets bounced to the 2nd unit (not that the talent level is all that different). Then again, Hoffman doesn't necessarily have to be playing the point to have a big role on the PP.

 

[Micklebot]

Last season
Karlsson 4:38
Hoffman 2:26
Phaneuf in Ottawa 2:23

I think there'd be enough time for both of them. Though obviously one gets bounced to the 2nd unit (not that the talent level is all that different). Then again, Hoffman doesn't necessarily have to be playing the point to have a big role on the PP.

I expect the PP to have Hoffman in the high slot (kinda like what Heatley did), Phaneuf at the point, Brassard on the halfwall, and Karlsson at the point. Stone probably takes the spot by the net. That gives Karlsson and Brassard two options for one timers (Hoff and Phaneuf) and Stone can make some nifty plays in tight.

 

[Uchiha]

I don't think 40+ points is attainable for Dion. Only 25 defenceman hit that benchmark and I presume Phaneuf will allow Ceci to be more of an offensive weapon on that pairing.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Phaneuf is here to be an intimidating presence, give Ceci an experienced partner and for his good slapshot, something we sorely lack.

40 points is not necessary to be happy about his game I'd think.

 

[Samsquanch]

If Karlsson does his thing, and we have Ceci and Phaneuf both in the 30-40pt range, we are in phenomenal shape on the back end in terms of puck movement.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wideman in the 20-30pt range either.

I could be 100% wrong on this, but I think that our blue line is going to be the highlight of our team, and one of the better ones in the league.

 

[Micklebot]

I don't think 40+ points is attainable for Dion. Only 25 defenceman hit that benchmark and I presume Phaneuf will allow Ceci to be more of an offensive weapon on that pairing.

He was on pace for something like 37 pts this past season, on a team that you could easily argue had far less offensive support. I expect him to be used in a similar role, though he'll likely see his PP time reduced a bit.

I think it's certainly attainable, though I'd agree I wouldn't expect it. ~35 pts is my expectation (assuming he plays 82 games or close to it). Anything less is disappointing imo.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Phaneuf is here to be an intimidating presence, give Ceci an experienced partner and for his good slapshot, something we sorely lack.

40 points is not necessary to be happy about his game I'd think.

Phaneuf is just all around solid, plus he can thrash guys behind the net. That's an element Ottawa hasn't had in its top 4 in a long ass time.

Give some of them smaller forecheckers something to think about.

 

[Tuna99]

Dion Phaneuf hasn't hit 40pts (or even 35 for that matter) since the 2011-2012 season and has only surpassed 32pts once in the last 8 years.

Jonathan Toewes has averaged 64 points the last 3 seasons, - what's your point?

 

[Sensinitis]

I think he easily hits 35 pts if he plays 80+ games. The rest is gravy.

We can have three 30+ pt scorers on D. That would be the first time that happens in a long time.

 

[417]

While nothing you have said is untrue, your clearly manipulating the wording to make your point. I have a very hard time taking you seriously.

2005-06 - 49pts
2006-07 - 50pts
2007-08 - 60pts
2008-09 - 47pts
2009-10 - 32pts
2010-11 - 37pt pace
2011-12 - 44pts
2012-13 - 47pt pace
2013-14 - 31pts
2014-15 - 33pt pace
2015-16 - 37pt pace

Hmmm...odd that you'd say that I'M manipulating words to prove my point, when you're using 'pace' to prove yours. Seems like you're the one doing the manipulating here.

Pace means what it means, it's not a guarantee that he would have surpassed those numbers. I'm speaking in actuals, not hypotheticals.

Dion is what he is. When healthy, hes a 30-40pt dman. Hes's never been on pace for lower than 30pts at any point in his career. He could easily put up 30-40pts on this team next year...

Again, all I said was that Dion hasn't hit the 44pt mark since the 2011-2012 season and has only hit 40+ once in the last 8 years. These are facts, no manipulating from me here...

Why do you feel the need to argue with that?

Because I disagreed with it...and that's what this message board is for.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

Again, all I said was that Dion hasn't hit the 44pt mark since the 2011-2012 season and has only hit 40+ once in the last 8 years. These are facts, no manipulating

Technically you are wrong though. He's hit 40+ twice in 8 years. Once in 2008-2009 and once in 2011-2012.

So in fact you are not giving the facts.

 

[417]

Habs fans

2012-13 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 48 9 19 28 : shortened season, pace of 48 pts for 82 games
2013-14 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 80 8 23 31 : pace of 32 pts
2014-15 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 70 3 26 29 : pace of 34 pts
2015-16 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 51 3 21 24 + Ottawa Senators NHL 20 1 7 8 : pace of 37 pts

Let's not forget that the Leafs didn't have the greatest teams to put out great numbers. Anyway, it doesn't matter, we are not expecting much than 30-35 pts from him (which has been his pace the last 3 years). Anything above that will be pure bonus.

The fact I'm a Habs fan, doesn't make him incapable of forming an opinion on things not related to the Habs....I live in Ottawa and have all my life, so I do follow the Sens and visit/read this board quite often.

Also, if you're going to use 'pace'...than it could be applied to a lot of cases. But 'pace' means what it means, in other words, not very much.

 

[417]

I stopped reading after I saw Colin Kaepernick.

Thought I'm sure your poitn was equally as silly

I've been trying to change my avatar pic for awhile now, won't work for some reason...

But my point isn't silly at all..it's just facts

 

[417]

Jonathan Toewes has averaged 64 points the last 3 seasons, - what's your point?

Odd question given this thread is about Dion Phaneuf...I have no clue why you're bringing up Toews and his point totals.

I think the more appropriate question here would be...

what's YOUR point?

 

[417]

Technically you are wrong though. He's hit 40+ twice in 8 years. Once in 2008-2009 and once in 2011-2012.

So in fact you are not giving the facts.

Sigh...sorry, you're correct, this current season hasn't started/concluded

So once in the last 7 years....is that better?

Again, I'm not quite sure what's so inflammatory about my post, in fact, another poster just reiterated the same thing. I'm guessing the fact I'm a Habs fans is upsetting some, but I'm not saying anything that isn't true (thanks for correcting that 8yrs vs. 7yrs).

 

[SensHulk]

Sigh...sorry, you're correct, this current season hasn't started/concluded

So once in the last 7 years....is that better?

Again, I'm not quite sure what's so inflammatory about my post, in fact, another poster just reiterated the same thing. I'm guessing the fact I'm a Habs fans is upsetting some, but I'm not saying anything that isn't true (thanks for correcting that 8yrs vs. 7yrs).

Yeah I don't get the hate....and I'm a sens fan. I think your points are valid, and as someone mentioned the biggest thing to take away is if Phaneuf is healthy, he'll be able to put up 35-40 points.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

Sigh...sorry, you're correct, this current season hasn't started/concluded

So once in the last 7 years....is that better?

Again, I'm not quite sure what's so inflammatory about my post, in fact, another poster just reiterated the same thing. I'm guessing the fact I'm a Habs fans is upsetting some, but I'm not saying anything that isn't true (thanks for correcting that 8yrs vs. 7yrs).

Yes that is better. For someone going on a fact rampage... you should have your facts right.

At the end of the day expecting phaneuf to be a 30+ point defensemen who is an improvement on Cowen/Wiercioch and a good#3/#4 D man isn't very optimistic. I'd be VERY disappointed if he wasn't at least that. Obviously 40+ points is optimistic but Ottawa is a more offensive team. Expecting more points from Phaneuf isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

 

[Micklebot]

I've been trying to change my avatar pic for awhile now, won't work for some reason...

But my point isn't silly at all..it's just facts

A point is what you derive from the facts, not the facts themselves.

One can only assume that your point was that it is unreasonable to think that 40 pts is attainable for him, as that's the claim you initially responded to.

So, here's the problem:

- Bonk posited that Phaneuf has not been used in an ideal fashion for quite a while; pretty much shortly after Carlyle took over, his usage flipped dramatically from offensive Dman to shutdown dman.
- Bonk then suggested that if used properly (I'm going to make an assumption that by properly, he meant in a more offensive role than he has been used in lately), and on this team (again, an assumption that he's implying this year's sens offers Phaneuf more offensive support than last year's Leafs), 40 pts is within his reach, this part of Bonk's hypothesis is likely dependent on him playing close to 82 games,
and performing at a similar level to last season.

So you came back with some facts that he hasn't hit 40 pts since 2012, nor has he surpassed the 32 pts mark more than once in the past 7 (after being corrected) season. Ok, that's great, but it's fair to point out that one of those 7 seasons was shortened (only 2 dmen in the league made it past 32 pts that year), so really once in 6 full seasons is more reflective of him being or not being capable of it. Pace was brought up because he's generally been a healthy Dman, but ran into injuries the last two seasons and one of the other seasons you brought up as mentioned was shortened.

Now, I haven't touched on two other key factors yet: 1. Used properly: Phaneuf will not be used like Carlyle used him. He won't be getting some of the toughest deployment in the league with Ottawa. That is going to help, we saw quite quickly that he performance improved with Babcock deploying him in a more reasonable manner, which happened to better align with his skill set. Most reasonable observers expect this trend to continue. 2. With this team: Ottawa has far more offensive depth than the injury depleted intentionally tanking leafs did. The opportunity for him to register assists with Ottawa will exceed the opportunity afforded him in TO.

Basically, it's painfully obvious your intent was not to provide any insight on whether Bonk's claim was reasonable or not, because if you had, you would have actually addressed at least one of the reasons Bonk presented that made him feel that he could increase his production from past result. Basically, Bonk says, "hey, under the more beneficial circumstances Phaneuf will have on Ottawa vs Toronto, I think he can outperform past results", to which you reply, "but his past results suggest he hasn't outproduced past results very often!" Sounds pretty damn dumb when you put it like that, doesn't it...

 

[topshelf15]

Hoffman is supposedly a huge part of Boucher's PP plan.

With the Phaneuf talk, I bring it up because I wonder if it means Hoffman will play the left point with Karlsson leaving Phaneuf with minimal PP opportunity.

I think the plan is to have 2 solid PP units ,and share the pp time .Ceci deserves a chance to show what he can do as a PPQB.Another good bet is to see a guy like ZSmith playing the role of a screen on one of the units

 

[BonkTastic]

A point is what you derive from the facts, not the facts themselves.

One can only assume that your point was that it is unreasonable to think that 40 pts is attainable for him, as that's the claim you initially responded to.

So, here's the problem:

- Bonk posited that Phaneuf has not been used in an ideal fashion for quite a while; pretty much shortly after Carlyle took over, his usage flipped dramatically from offensive Dman to shutdown dman.
- Bonk then suggested that if used properly (I'm going to make an assumption that by properly, he meant in a more offensive role than he has been used in lately), and on this team (again, an assumption that he's implying this year's sens offers Phaneuf more offensive support than last year's Leafs), 40 pts is within his reach, this part of Bonk's hypothesis is likely dependent on him playing close to 82 games,
and performing at a similar level to last season.

So you came back with some facts that he hasn't hit 40 pts since 2012, nor has he surpassed the 32 pts mark more than once in the past 7 (after being corrected) season. Ok, that's great, but it's fair to point out that one of those 7 seasons was shortened (only 2 dmen in the league made it past 32 pts that year), so really once in 6 full seasons is more reflective of him being or not being capable of it. Pace was brought up because he's generally been a healthy Dman, but ran into injuries the last two seasons and one of the other seasons you brought up as mentioned was shortened.

Now, I haven't touched on two other key factors yet: 1. Used properly: Phaneuf will not be used like Carlyle used him. He won't be getting some of the toughest deployment in the league with Ottawa. That is going to help, we saw quite quickly that he performance improved with Babcock deploying him in a more reasonable manner, which happened to better align with his skill set. Most reasonable observers expect this trend to continue. 2. With this team: Ottawa has far more offensive depth than the injury depleted intentionally tanking leafs did. The opportunity for him to register assists with Ottawa will exceed the opportunity afforded him in TO.

Basically, it's painfully obvious your intent was not to provide any insight on whether Bonk's claim was reasonable or not, because if you had, you would have actually addressed at least one of the reasons Bonk presented that made him feel that he could increase his production from past result. Basically, Bonk says, "hey, under the more beneficial circumstances Phaneuf will have on Ottawa vs Toronto, I think he can outperform past results", to which you reply, "but his past results suggest he hasn't outproduced past results very often!" Sounds pretty damn dumb when you put it like that, doesn't it...

My name is BonkTastic, and I approve this post.

 

[Uchiha]

Sigh...sorry, you're correct, this current season hasn't started/concluded

So once in the last 7 years....is that better?

Again, I'm not quite sure what's so inflammatory about my post, in fact, another poster just reiterated the same thing. I'm guessing the fact I'm a Habs fans is upsetting some, but I'm not saying anything that isn't true (thanks for correcting that 8yrs vs. 7yrs).

Some posters are just like that. What you stated is true and 40+ points is a reach. Facts aren't wanted here.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I've been trying to change my avatar pic for awhile now, won't work for some reason...

But my point isn't silly at all..it's just facts

People hate facts. Forfty percent of all people know that.