Dion Phaneuf - Will he stay or will he go?

Status
Not open for further replies.

jmart21

MISC!!!
Nov 16, 2009
5,552
0
All Over The Place
Could see this going either way.

But having Babcock here might make the Leafs less likely to deal him for "scraps" as the alternative (keeping him) doesn't look nearly as bleak w/ babcock here as it did with Horachek/new coach.
 

roosterman

Registered User
Feb 4, 2008
984
156
I'm not sure he is out of here but I really hope he is (and Kessel and others). The Leafs need to continue the rebuild process and bottom out and grow the number of picks. He is one of the pieces that will help the Leafs do that.

The most encouraging thing I heard Babs say yesterday was that they need to get Hunter more picks. This implies trading away talent to grow more picks.

The rebuild is still on :)
 

highslot

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
1,601
18
with babcock on board, i don't actually mind if phaneuf stays. he's not a complainer and babcock might be able to work with his limitations.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,256
9,267
Who are you referring to that didn't want to stay here?

She means Dion. Word was he wanted out and was disappointed the Detroit trade fell through.

I mean anyone. If anyone was walking around that organization wanting to leave, or wanting to be traded because of any reason - then, then the organization should move them out


Babcock wasn't the coach last year. That's all I have to say about that. Self explanatory response.


I do not care. they wanted to go. they should go. end of story. It's like going to someone's house, putting up with a not so good meal, you excuse yourself to leave and go home, but then the host brings out a beautiful store bought pie from your favourite bakery and you go "Oh no, I can stay for pie." No. you were prepared to go home before you saw the pie. You don't get pie. Go home.
 

4thline

Registered User
Jul 18, 2014
14,423
9,750
Waterloo
I mean anyone. If anyone was walking around that organization wanting to leave, or wanting to be traded because of any reason - then, then the organization should move them out





I do not care. they wanted to go. they should go. end of story. It's like going to someone's house, putting up with a not so good meal, you excuse yourself to leave and go home, but then the host brings out a beautiful store bought pie from your favourite bakery and you go "Oh no, I can stay for pie." No. you were prepared to go home before you saw the pie. You don't get pie. Go home.

Haha analogy time!

I disagree, I think its understandable, and forgivable given the change in circumstance.

I'll use a contracting a firm. Old, storied, talk of the town but going downhill. You're the star framer. Jack of all trades, leadership role, union rep, lead hand type guy. Organizational performance is way down, the professionalism of your peers is falling, your foreman got the axe and his replacement is completely inept. You're working your ass off but Things are still going to **** and it doesn't look like its going to stop any time soon. You get a job offer (trade rumour) from a more successful firm with a great foreman, outstanding professional atmosphere, and an opportunity to work on a really meaningful project. Would you not be disappointed when the other firm isn't able to get the deal done?

Would you not have a change of heart when that same foreman is hired by your organization, and the entire outlook, philosophy is changing for the better?

Babcock, who hates losing, is willing to gut through it for the challenge and chance of doing something great.

Phaneuf, who hates losing, wanted out because it looked like there wasn't much hope, but now that there is light at the end of the tunnel is willing to gut through the present to be part of something great.
 

MJ65

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
16,376
2,233
Toronto
Say what you want about Dion. He cares. When he wasn't traded last season at the deadline. I commented how much respect I had that he kept on playing, didn't complain, he was a total pro. There were some nights it looked likehe was the only player that cared when others had already checked out.

That goes a long way to what I have heard about him. He's a pro, he's not a problem. And it will be up to Babcock, as I do think if he went to Mgt. and said we need him, I need him to be on this team. The Leafs would reconsider moving him.

If he was wanted by LA, Detroit, and some other unnamed Western teams, surely he is good enough to play here.

Well I have given you my reasons
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,904
11,317
Hes gone. waiting on the summer dollar.

I think Kessel is gone, Phaneuf stays.
If you read all the articles you get:
It will be painful.
It will get worse before it gets better.
Hunter needs more picks.
We will not rush the build.
Phaneuf is all in.

How can it get worse from 4th last in the league. Who would you move to have the greatest impact on painful?
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,256
9,267
Haha analogy time!

I disagree, I think its understandable, and forgivable given the change in circumstance.

I'll use a contracting a firm. Old, storied, talk of the town but going downhill. You're the star framer. Jack of all trades, leadership role, union rep, lead hand type guy. Organizational performance is way down, the professionalism of your peers is falling, your foreman got the axe and his replacement is completely inept. You're working your ass off but Things are still going to **** and it doesn't look like its going to stop any time soon. You get a job offer (trade rumour) from a more successful firm with a great foreman, outstanding professional atmosphere, and an opportunity to work on a really meaningful project. Would you not be disappointed when the other firm isn't able to get the deal done?

Would you not have a change of heart when that same foreman is hired by your organization, and the entire outlook, philosophy is changing for the better?

Babcock, who hates losing, is willing to gut through it for the challenge and chance of doing something great.

Phaneuf, who hates losing, wanted out because it looked like there wasn't much hope, but now that there is light at the end of the tunnel is willing to gut through the present to be part of something great.

:laugh: i love analogies

look, I am very fair. since this is the Dion thread - he never said anything publicly about leaving, nothing ever came out about him wanting to go (vs. Reimer requesting a trade per se). If he stays for the next season or two, then he stays.

If people want to stay now, because Babcock is here. it would kind of irk me, because quite frankly, stay here because you want to make a difference. poop stinks. but that's not my decision. if they are committed to stay (shrug) then fine. I don't necessary like it, but that's not my decision to make.

I personally feel they're going anyway. but we'll see.
 

Reddaye

Registered User
Nov 1, 2011
1,564
19
New Brunswick
Has anyone besides Kyper actually confirmed that Phaneuf wanted out at the TDL?

I haven't been keeping up with the Dion news, but I only remember Kyper saying anything about it.
 

MJ65

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
16,376
2,233
Toronto
:laugh: i love analogies

look, I am very fair. since this is the Dion thread - he never said anything publicly about leaving, nothing ever came out about him wanting to go (vs. Reimer requesting a trade per se). If he stays for the next season or two, then he stays.

If people want to stay now, because Babcock is here. it would kind of irk me, because quite frankly, stay here because you want to make a difference. poop stinks. but that's not my decision. if they are committed to stay (shrug) then fine. I don't necessary like it, but that's not my decision to make.

I personally feel they're going anyway. but we'll see.

Phaneuf was really upset that he was not traded at the deadline - now all of a sudden, he is so excited because Babcock is a coach. Being a leader and a captain, what kind of example you are setting up

Nothing against Phaneuf, he is still a very useful player. He would be more helpful to a contending than a rebuilding team

The money saved on his contract, should be used against upcoming prospects, and the FA
 

4thline

Registered User
Jul 18, 2014
14,423
9,750
Waterloo
:laugh: i love analogies

look, I am very fair. since this is the Dion thread - he never said anything publicly about leaving, nothing ever came out about him wanting to go (vs. Reimer requesting a trade per se). If he stays for the next season or two, then he stays.

If people want to stay now, because Babcock is here. it would kind of irk me, because quite frankly, stay here because you want to make a difference. poop stinks. but that's not my decision. if they are committed to stay (shrug) then fine. I don't necessary like it, but that's not my decision to make.

I personally feel they're going anyway. but we'll see.

I just don't know... even at arm's length there's an infectious feeling of change. Its not just that Babcock is here. It's about all the stuff surrounding it. The 8 years, the commitment to the plan, to building a winner.

I could be completely wrong, I have a feeling that Dion and Babcock will have a fishing trip or something like that where Dion will have to answer some tough questions, and the result of that conversation will decide whether Dion is a leaf for life or in another jersey come september. Off the top of my head I can't think of any comparable or better d-men that detroit has moved during Babcock's tenure. He like's continuity, almost to a fault.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,256
9,267
Has anyone besides Kyper actually confirmed that Phaneuf wanted out at the TDL?

I haven't been keeping up with the Dion news, but I only remember Kyper saying anything about it.

Kyper was the only one who said it (but then per usual in the media, everyone took it). however, Shanahan stated it during the presser in April. Fans don't want players who look like they don't want to be there. I am not going to play the "who did Shanny mean" I think it was a blanket statement made to everyone.

Phaneuf was really upset that he was not traded at the deadline - now all of a sudden, he is so excited because Babcock is a coach. Being a leader and a captain, what kind of example you are setting up

Nothing against Phaneuf, he is still a very useful player. He would be more helpful to a contending than a rebuilding team

The money saved on his contract, should be used against upcoming prospects, and the FA

my argument is - is Dion the kind of player who can play at the level of play we want him to 5-6 years from now? I don't think so. my personal feeling.

I would be fishing him.

I just don't know... even at arm's length there's an infectious feeling of change. Its not just that Babcock is here. It's about all the stuff surrounding it. The 8 years, the commitment to the plan, to building a winner.

I could be completely wrong, I have a feeling that Dion and Babcock will have a fishing trip or something like that where Dion will have to answer some tough questions, and the result of that conversation will decide whether Dion is a leaf for life or in another jersey come september. Off the top of my head I can't think of any comparable or better d-men that detroit has moved during Babcock's tenure. He like's continuity, almost to a fault.

oh - i bet you anything Dion's going to be with Babcock and there will be some man-conversations being had. :nod:

(quite frankly considering that Dion and Shanahan had the same conversation this summer and this season happened.... not all on him but hey Shanahan flat out said the leadership is not where he wanted it to be, and he is part of the leadership). I don't know. I am not going to speculate either.

Again, I think depending on what happens with Anaheim/Detroit/LA etc (Dallas/Colorado would also be targets) Fish him around see what you can get, if you can move him and get a great catch back without having to retain too much (or ANYTHING) then that would be my play. the end.
 

dimi78

Registered User
Aug 9, 2008
4,354
294
Kyper was the only one who said it (but then per usual in the media, everyone took it). however, Shanahan stated it during the presser in April. Fans don't want players who look like they don't want to be there. I am not going to play the "who did Shanny mean" I think it was a blanket statement made to everyone.



my argument is - is Dion the kind of player who can play at the level of play we want him to 5-6 years from now? I don't think so. my personal feeling.

I would be fishing him.



oh - i bet you anything Dion's going to be with Babcock and there will be some man-conversations being had. :nod:

(quite frankly considering that Dion and Shanahan had the same conversation this summer and this season happened.... not all on him but hey Shanahan flat out said the leadership is not where he wanted it to be, and he is part of the leadership). I don't know. I am not going to speculate either.

Again, I think depending on what happens with Anaheim/Detroit/LA etc (Dallas/Colorado would also be targets) Fish him around see what you can get, if you can move him and get a great catch back without having to retain too much (or ANYTHING) then that would be my play. the end.

Daisy may I suggest you remove emotion from your opinion? Tell you why because if you did you would realize there's not a single player in this organization including the love affair for Reilly, Nylander that aren't available for a trade.

At the state in which this team left off last season there's no untouchables but your also not going to just give people away like the way the popular opinion is that Phanuef, Kessel are out the door guaranteed. Both of these guys aren't freaking Tyler Bozak. They're good players. Good players of any age is important during a rebuild rather people care to understand this or not it's a fact. You don't want your talented kids on Islands on there own like we've done to Kadri these past few years and expected progression and improvement. Kessel and Phanuef hold value and are signed to long term deals as much as people let themselves get emotional and don't allow themselves to think rationally the LEAFS DON'T HAVE TO TRADE EITHER GUY, you can fish them around that still doesn't mean they'll get traded and to tell you the truth I wouldn't even put the bait out I'd let teams call me instead. These aren't get the best you can get variety of players, Kessel isn't Semin & Phanuef isn't Franson. Both will only be moved for the same reason why a Reilly would get moved that the trade offer makes sense.

Now that we're on this talk about fishing the guy to fish hard in the trade market is JVR. This guy IMO is worth more in a trade now then he's worth to the organization. Selling high is a tactic that should be something explored rather than selling just to get rid of players.
 

burpsalot

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
5,633
0
Both Kessel & Phaneuf are gone. Shanahan let the players know last year that the management were watching & it was up to the players to show they belong. All but a handful **** the bed. Kessel was friggin embarrassing & Phaneuf was not much better. The one thing going for Phaneuf was at least he wasn't a bad attitude guy.

If you want to be optimistic & say the Leafs are a competitive playoff team in 3 years. Kessel will be 31 & Phaneuf 34 & will be rapidly diminishing value. Neither of them are character players that could be used as mentors,

The only way either of them stay is if the Leafs feel they are not being offered enough in return. Then they play them in the best situations trying to increase their value as trade materiel.

The question now will be what is enough. If a deal was in the works for this summer would you necessarily get much more mid way next season? I would prefer getting draft picks sooner rather than later.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,256
9,267
Daisy may I suggest you remove emotion from your opinion? Tell you why because if you did you would realize there's not a single player in this organization including the love affair for Reilly, Nylander that aren't available for a trade.

Wait? what?
I know everyone is available for a trade

At the state in which this team left off last season there's no untouchables but your also not going to just give people away like the way the popular opinion is that Phanuef, Kessel are out the door guaranteed.


I never said I would give them away. (I might have said it during a game day or something when i was really mad, or something, I'll grant you that), but even a few posts up what I said in regards to moving Dion, if it were me, I'd be contacting the teams that showed interest (DET/ANA/LA) and ask for Larkin or Mantha, Shea Theodore, Toffoli or Pearson. And start from there.


Both of these guys aren't freaking Tyler Bozak. They're good players. Good players of any age is important during a rebuild rather people care to understand this or not it's a fact. You don't want your talented kids on Islands on there own like we've done to Kadri these past few years and expected progression and improvement.

I know that. and I've said that. constantly. This is why when people were all like "oh my god I can't believe we signed Robidas for that much money." I had said (and have said all year) every time Rielly, Gardiner, or any young defenseman opens their mouth and says "Robidas is teaching me XYZ, and I'm learning so much from then." that is worth the 3 million for 3 years. (it sucks that he didn't play well either, and I think with an actual chance to train and to have camp he should be better).

I have always stated we needed better support for the players that are coming up.


Kessel and Phanuef hold value and are signed to long term deals as much as people let themselves get emotional and don't allow themselves to think rationally the LEAFS DON'T HAVE TO TRADE EITHER GUY, you can fish them around that still doesn't mean they'll get traded and to tell you the truth I wouldn't even put the bait out I'd let teams call me instead.

That is fair. i wouldn't. i'd be pro-active. but that's me. i'm also not a GM so maybe I'm wrong. :dunno:

I personally - emotion-less free as you asked - think you need to move on from them as soon as we are able when there is a good deal available. I never once wavered from this stance. That is my opinion. that's what I would do. I have also said, It would not surprise me one iota if they came back, and if they came back the year after that. It took Buffalo 4 years to get rid of some of their most highest paid contracts, I said that from the get-go.

These aren't get the best you can get variety of players, Kessel isn't Semin & Phanuef isn't Franson. Both will only be moved for the same reason why a Reilly would get moved that the trade offer makes sense.

I know that..never insinuated that they were.

Now that we're on this talk about fishing the guy to fish hard in the trade market is JVR. This guy IMO is worth more in a trade now then he's worth to the organization. Selling high is a tactic that should be something explored rather than selling just to get rid of players.


I've been saying that since November that we should be trading JVR.
but once again. I never said I would just get "rid" of anyone.

the question was asked, now that people apparently want to be here now that Babcock is here, does that change your mind. My answer is no. If the players wanted out - (for whatever reason i'm not going to go into the whole ins and outs of why that's their decision), then I - as a fan, don't want them here. I want people who want to play for my team, regardless if Babcock, or Santa Claus was the head coach. that might sound silly or childish, or not logical, but it's how I feel. It's the same way when people "request" a trade. they could be requesting a trade to better their career - which is fine, I get that - but at the same time it means you don't want to play for my team. so why would i want you here if you don't want to play for my team?

that might sound emotional or doesn't make sense, and that's fine - i don't think I'm articulating it right or properly.

If management decides that keeping Dion Phaneuf for the entire length of his contract is the best course of action. I will trust management. If Phaneuf comes out during fan fest or day one of camp or game 55 and goes, I am 100 percent committed to this process then fine. then I will back him up on that.

I don't know - however, if the Leafs were trying to get Dion traded at deadline (and it 'could have been done') that all of a sudden the management team aren't going to consider moving him out if the deal is a good one. if the Leafs feel it is fair - then it is fair. Hunter etc aren't just going to take back crap. I get that, and I trust that. I am also prepared for the fact that the return could be a "Dubinsky" like return that doesn't look sexy at the forefront but it pays off dividends in the long run. a lot of people don't like that idea/concept and that's where millage varies.

My personal belief is - Dion is not a player that will be "better with age" so capitalize now. if Management doesn't think so or feels they can wait - then i trust that.
 

burpsalot

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
5,633
0
Daisy may I suggest you remove emotion from your opinion? Tell you why because if you did you would realize there's not a single player in this organization including the love affair for Reilly, Nylander that aren't available for a trade.

At the state in which this team left off last season there's no untouchables but your also not going to just give people away like the way the popular opinion is that Phanuef, Kessel are out the door guaranteed. Both of these guys aren't freaking Tyler Bozak. They're good players. Good players of any age is important during a rebuild rather people care to understand this or not it's a fact. You don't want your talented kids on Islands on there own like we've done to Kadri these past few years and expected progression and improvement. Kessel and Phanuef hold value and are signed to long term deals as much as people let themselves get emotional and don't allow themselves to think rationally the LEAFS DON'T HAVE TO TRADE EITHER GUY, you can fish them around that still doesn't mean they'll get traded and to tell you the truth I wouldn't even put the bait out I'd let teams call me instead. These aren't get the best you can get variety of players, Kessel isn't Semin & Phanuef isn't Franson. Both will only be moved for the same reason why a Reilly would get moved that the trade offer makes sense.

Now that we're on this talk about fishing the guy to fish hard in the trade market is JVR. This guy IMO is worth more in a trade now then he's worth to the organization. Selling high is a tactic that should be something explored rather than selling just to get rid of players.


Hmmm, he is one that I would keep. There are certain players that certain coaches would like to sink their hooks into. JVR is the type I can see Babcock targeting as a project to make him a star.
 

Durkin67

Guest
All down to the return. Babcock's recent endorsement might actually raise his value to both the team, and to potential suitors.
 

socko

Registered User
Nov 26, 2013
7,599
5,498
Martinez, GA
Everybody is for sale at the right price. But I think the fire sale came to a screeching halt the moment Babcock said yes.
 

exporta

Registered User
Jul 30, 2005
3,219
246
I'm almost for letting Mike see what he's got and can work with before moving anyone.

Really, if Mike can get through to Kessel wouldn't you want to see that?
 

Optimist

Wendel and I
Feb 16, 2015
1,241
2,050
Ontario Canada
Let me go out on a limb here and say that nobody that posts here has a better feel for the real Dion Phaneuf than I do. And by that, I mean has anyone here spent a half hour face to face with Dion asking him some tough questions? Well I have. Dion is passionate about the Leafs and believes in them. I can say that without a doubt that he is an intelligent man. He is well spoken and his mere presence demands respect. In my opinion, the Leafs have over used him since he's been here. Most minutes, on the power play, against the top lines, penalty killing. The list goes on. They've burned this guy out without taking advantage of his talent. I believe that Babcock will not only recognize his skills, but use them effectively and improve his on ice presence tenfold. Who would we get in a trade to replace him? How much salary would we have to eat in that trade? Showing him the door is just silly. Until you've sat face to face with him, none of you have no idea how much of an asset he can be to a team that has some positives for a change. Babcock will bring that, and so will the Phaneuf that I know.
 
Last edited:

Durkin67

Guest
Let me go out on a limb here and say that nobody that posts here has a better feel for the real Dion Phaneuf than I do. And by that, I mean has anyone here spent a half hour face to face with Dion asking him some tough questions? Well I have. Dion is passionate about the Leafs and believes in them. I can say that without a doubt. He is an intelligent man. He is well spoken and his mere presence demands respect. In my opinion, the Leafs have over used him since he's been here. Most minutes, on the power play, against the top lines, penalty killing. The list goes on. They've burned this guy out without taking advantage of his talent. I believe that Babcock will not only recognize his skills, but use them effectively and improve his on ice presence tenfold. Who would we get in a trade to replace him? How much salary would we have to eat in that trade? Showing him the door is just silly. Until you've sat face to face with him, none of you have no idea how much of an asset he can be to a team that has some positives for a change. Babcock will bring that, and so will the Phaneuf that I know.

The mandate is to load up on youth. I have always backed Dion, but his tenure as captain can't continue, and I don't see him stepping down like Joe Thornton did.

You don't try and replace him in a trade. You simply reload with the picks and prospects you can get for him, if there lis a deal that works.

Hes not a 1D, but he's a very capable 2 or 3, and if you're eating cap to stay above the floor, you can move him for some nice futures.

Half of me wants to see Babs turn him around. The other half wants to see the Leafs load up on raw materials and lay down a solid blueprint from ground zero.
 

Suntouchable13

Registered User
Dec 20, 2003
43,554
19,025
Toronto, ON
I'm almost for letting Mike see what he's got and can work with before moving anyone.

Really, if Mike can get through to Kessel wouldn't you want to see that?

How many chances can you give these losers? We're never going to do anything with these guys. Yea, so let's waste everybody's time. What was last season about? Evaluating. If you look around the league, does our current roster match up well with anybody that's still playing? Was coaching a thing that held them back? I don't think so, and I wanted Randy outta here badly. I just don't think there is much on this roster. I don't see much upside with the current group at all. A wild card spot, maybe? Is that what you want? Start tearing it down and lay a new foundation.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,991
11,551
The mandate is to load up on youth. I have always backed Dion, but his tenure as captain can't continue, and I don't see him stepping down like Joe Thornton did.
Thornton didn't "step down" from the C, the team took it away.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad