Did Bettman try and save the Jets?

[MoMiester]

I have to laugh as all these new people coming in agruing for the Peg as they are all from that famously boorish web site that promotes NHL Hockey in W'Peg.

Hockey in W'Peg. No problem here but all these people post everyday in their own dreamworld website going on talking about an empty seat they saw on TV to the thing to do in Atlanta is make moonshine (actual comment by the famous owner of that website)(anyone been to Atlanta lately? I did not see any moonshiners there) and they have convinced themselves how bad hockey is in some US cities and how W'Peg is the mecca of hockey and how much money would be made and every game would be sold out at the highest ticket prices in the NHL and how all the corps would come in droves to buy boxes and tickets and how everyone would buy season tickets, and how any team that is south of Pennsylvania only has toothless hicks and marry's their cousins and on and on and on.....

Then they come here and meet others outside of their own and the real world hits...........like a moonie finally hitting the streets after being locked up in the compound after a good year of brainwashing.

No problem here with W'Peg getting a team but a little bit of reality and instead of making up a world that fits a dream would be best for everyone.

 

[AdmiralPred]

You said it.

 

[GSC2k2*]

I have to laugh as all these new people coming in agruing for the Peg as they are all from that famously boorish web site that promotes NHL Hockey in W'Peg.

Hockey in W'Peg. No problem here but all these people post everyday in their own dreamworld website going on talking about an empty seat they saw on TV to the thing to do in Atlanta is make moonshine (actual comment by the famous owner of that website)(anyone been to Atlanta lately? I did not see any moonshiners there) and they have convinced themselves how bad hockey is in some US cities and how W'Peg is the mecca of hockey and how much money would be made and every game would be sold out at the highest ticket prices in the NHL and how all the corps would come in droves to buy boxes and tickets and how everyone would buy season tickets, and how any team that is south of Pennsylvania only has toothless hicks and marry's their cousins and on and on and on.....

Then they come here and meet others outside of their own and the real world hits...........like a moonie finally hitting the streets after being locked up in the compound after a good year of brainwashing.

No problem here with W'Peg getting a team but a little bit of reality and instead of making up a world that fits a dream would be best for everyone.

A fine, fine post. I actually used the lines "south of Pennsylvania" and "marry their cousins" in another recent post.

Love the moonie reference too.

 

[vivianmb]

Wow, you've convinced me ...

When you come to the realization that more than electricians go to hockey games (especially the substantial portion of most crowds that are there because they are getting it through a corporate connection), perhaps we can talk some more.[/QUOTE

of course more than electricians go to hockey games. all kinds of middle income people do. not just corporations. i used electricians as an example of a middle income guy. and because i know the field. unlike you who rips out stats ( while obviously the stats are true , they have nothing to do with what you're saying or what the arguement is about). stop and think... hockey in phoenix better than hockey in winnipeg .... is that market helping to "sell the game" i think not.
to quote someone unknown ... if you had a brain you'd be dangerous.

 

[AdmiralPred]

Never let facts and stats get in the way of another's opinion.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Wow, you've convinced me ...

When you come to the realization that more than electricians go to hockey games (especially the substantial portion of most crowds that are there because they are getting it through a corporate connection), perhaps we can talk some more.[/QUOTE

of course more than electricians go to hockey games. all kinds of middle income people do. not just corporations. i used electricians as an example of a middle income guy. and because i know the field. unlike you who rips out stats ( while obviously the stats are true , they have nothing to do with what you're saying or what the arguement is about). stop and think... hockey in phoenix better than hockey in winnipeg .... is that market helping to "sell the game" i think not.
to quote someone unknown ... if you had a brain you'd be dangerous.

I want back the 30 seconds that I spent reading your post.

 

[shatner_rules]

You said it.

I concur. Good post MoMeister.

There's still alot of things that need to happen before Winnipeg could be considered an NHL City again.

One thought involves corporate backing(and the lack of it) in this city. The current provincial government should look at getting rid of the payroll tax that is in place right now(I believe they are the ones who voted it in in the first place). Basically, a company is taxed(don't as me how much) if their employee payroll exceeds $1 million. Not a great way to entice big business to set up shop in this province.

 

[Ismellofhockey]

And I want the 2 minutes of my life spent reading the last 2 pages back...

It comes as no surprise to me that the Canadian Taxpayers Federation would have negative articles on Manitoba's economy since it's their raison d'être to scare, denounce and criticize in order to educate/inform or elicit a response from various governments and groups.

The Stats Can numbers are more interesting however and I find them actually quite impressive for Manitoba.
To compare Manitoba to the Canadian average is unfair in the sense that Alberta's growth and to a lesser extent Saskatchewan's has artificially bloated that average thanks to the fossil-fuel boom.
Manitoba has had over the past 5 years the steadiest GDP growth in Canada, based not on the boom of a single sector but on a solid economic base, one of the most diversified in Canada.
http://www.gov.mb.ca/iedm/invest/busfacts/economy/gdp_all.html

So when you see that for 2006 Manitoba's GDP growth was 3.1%, above the canadian average of 2.8%, factor in that Manitoba's unemployment rate of 4.1% is third best in the country, and I figure that Manitoba has reason to be proud of it's economy. http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?archive=&item=721
So you see, the stats don't all speak against Manitoba.

Finally, I have to repeat that comparing the 90s Jets to today's NHL isn't as reliable an argument as it may seem.
Not only has the NHL's way of doing buisiness changed tremendously since then, not only was the arena an undeniable factor in not having sellouts but the economy was in a rut in the 90s, while it has been quite strong since 1997.
Those 3 factors make the comparison very difficult, and the best example of that is the Minnesota Wild. Of course Minneapolis is very different than Winnipeg but the fact remains that the North Stars drew terrible crowds and yet the Wild have one of the longest sellout streaks in the NHL.

Times have changed, the viability of the Jets can certainly be doubted, but I don't think it can be discarded without a second thought. It would certainly be difficult but the Jets might be able to make it, especially with a currently strong canadian dollar, an NHL cap, revenue sharing for teams spending less than $30M in payroll and hopefully, at some point, increasing TV revenues.

Edit: Just to make things clear, I don't live in Manitoba and I've never been there, judge my arguments in consequence of that if you wish. I'm actually writing in this thread because I have hopes (or dreams) of the NHL's return to Quebec City some day.

 

[Hasbro]

A fine, fine post. I actually used the lines "south of Pennsylvania" and "marry their cousins" in another recent post.

Love the moonie reference too.

I guess Denver is a good market being just north of the Pennsylvania border.

god knows why USA Hockey decided to HQ in the sunbelt City of Colorado Springs.

 

[GSC2k2*]

I guess Denver is a good market being just north of the Pennsylvania border.

god knows why USA Hockey decided to HQ in the sunbelt City of Colorado Springs.

They should thank their lucky stars, they should.

 

[vivianmb]

And I want the 2 minutes of my life spent reading the last 2 pages back...

It comes as no surprise to me that the Canadian Taxpayers Federation would have negative articles on Manitoba's economy since it's their raison d'être to scare, denounce and criticize in order to educate/inform or elicit a response from various governments and groups.

The Stats Can numbers are more interesting however and I find them actually quite impressive for Manitoba.
To compare Manitoba to the Canadian average is unfair in the sense that Alberta's growth and to a lesser extent Saskatchewan's has artificially bloated that average thanks to the fossil-fuel boom.
Manitoba has had over the past 5 years the steadiest GDP growth in Canada, based not on the boom of a single sector but on a solid economic base, one of the most diversified in Canada.
http://www.gov.mb.ca/iedm/invest/busfacts/economy/gdp_all.html

So when you see that for 2006 Manitoba's GDP growth was 3.1%, above the canadian average of 2.8%, factor in that Manitoba's unemployment rate of 4.1% is third best in the country, and I figure that Manitoba has reason to be proud of it's economy. http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?archive=&item=721
So you see, the stats don't all speak against Manitoba.

Finally, I have to repeat that comparing the 90s Jets to today's NHL isn't as reliable an argument as it may seem.
Not only has the NHL's way of doing buisiness changed tremendously since then, not only was the arena an undeniable factor in not having sellouts but the economy was in a rut in the 90s, while it has been quite strong since 1997.
Those 3 factors make the comparison very difficult, and the best example of that is the Minnesota Wild. Of course Minneapolis is very different than Winnipeg but the fact remains that the North Stars drew terrible crowds and yet the Wild have one of the longest sellout streaks in the NHL.

Times have changed, the viability of the Jets can certainly be doubted, but I don't think it can be discarded without a second thought. It would certainly be difficult but the Jets might be able to make it, especially with a currently strong canadian dollar, an NHL cap, revenue sharing for teams spending less than $30M in payroll and hopefully, at some point, increasing TV revenues.

Edit: Just to make things clear, I don't live in Manitoba and I've never been there, judge my arguments in consequence of that if you wish. I'm actually writing in this thread because I have hopes (or dreams) of the NHL's return to Quebec City some day.

MAUDITE= good.

so do we hope.but after winnipegLOL...

 

[KrisKing*]

Your perception of my post probably says more about how you perceive yourself than anything I or anyone else could say. I will leave it at that.

What a clever comment. You managed to put me down without saying anything that makes any sense whatsoever.

And who says I'm not objective? I'm hardly even arguing that Winnipeg deserves a team. I just think it's ridiculous how people on here from mostly the deep south of the US are self-proclaimed experts on the economy of Winnipeg, and whether Winnipeg would support a team. According to you I'm an idiot, but I happen to believe that someone who LIVES in Manitoba would have a better pulse on what kind of support for the NHL exists here. Of course I don't have a bunch of statistics that I've molded to support my opinion, so apparently I have no credibility. Sometimes you just have to look at the real world and forget about stats. You can put statistics together to support anything, I guess that's why everyone on here is obsessed with them.

 

[KrisKing*]

I have to laugh as all these new people coming in agruing for the Peg as they are all from that famously boorish web site that promotes NHL Hockey in W'Peg.

Hockey in W'Peg. No problem here but all these people post everyday in their own dreamworld website going on talking about an empty seat they saw on TV to the thing to do in Atlanta is make moonshine (actual comment by the famous owner of that website)(anyone been to Atlanta lately? I did not see any moonshiners there) and they have convinced themselves how bad hockey is in some US cities and how W'Peg is the mecca of hockey and how much money would be made and every game would be sold out at the highest ticket prices in the NHL and how all the corps would come in droves to buy boxes and tickets and how everyone would buy season tickets, and how any team that is south of Pennsylvania only has toothless hicks and marry's their cousins and on and on and on.....

Then they come here and meet others outside of their own and the real world hits...........like a moonie finally hitting the streets after being locked up in the compound after a good year of brainwashing.

No problem here with W'Peg getting a team but a little bit of reality and instead of making up a world that fits a dream would be best for everyone.

What exactly do you expect to see on a site supporting the return of the Jets? If it offends you so much to see people have hope, then I'd advise you to stay off that site.

This site isn't exactly the intellectual utopia of the internet either. If you're talking about hockey knowledge I'd pick a site full of Winnipeggers over this place any day.

 

[Coyotes1934]

According to you I'm an idiot, but I happen to believe that someone who LIVES in Manitoba would have a better pulse on what kind of support for the NHL exists here.

Wouldn't the same be true that people who live in Phoenix would know better what kind of NHL support is here?? Just wondering if it works both ways... because Canadians always seem to think us desert dwellers are stupid when it comes to hockey. It's not that hard of a sport to pick up.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Wouldn't the same be true that people who live in Phoenix would know better what kind of NHL support is here?? Just wondering if it works both ways... because Canadians always seem to think us desert dwellers are stupid when it comes to hockey. It's not that hard of a sport to pick up.

Are you crazy??? Of course not. You guys don't know squat about hockey. Only us Canadians do. We live it. We breathe it. Every last one of us. Every. Last. One.

 

[GSC2k2*]

What a clever comment. You managed to put me down without saying anything that makes any sense whatsoever.

Chum, you are the one who is putting people down. You managed to put an entire profession down in your previous effort in this thread. But it's really me attacking you?

Right.

According to you I'm an idiot

Really? Show me the post where I said you were an idiot. Heck, show me the post where I said anyone was an idiot. Take a second, I'll wait.

...


...

Done yet? Could not find such a post? I didn't think so.

but I happen to believe that someone who LIVES in Manitoba would have a better pulse on what kind of support for the NHL exists here.

The last refuge of someone who has faith but not a shred of proof or even logic is "but it's true, because I know it. Me and my buddies would support it!!!".

Of course I don't have a bunch of statistics that I've molded to support my opinion, so apparently I have no credibility.

Perhaps not you, but the cadre of pro-Jet Darren Ford lackeys who populate this board and spew their anti-south vitriol sure do love their stats. These others, however, actually go to the trouble of scouring the box scores every night for attendance figures that they then use to "support" their viewpoint. Maybe you participate in that as well, I don't care enough to check your old posts. You know why i don't care enough to do so? Because, chum, it's not about you.

Sometimes you just have to look at the real world and forget about stats. You can put statistics together to support anything, I guess that's why everyone on here is obsessed with them.

Let me see if I have this right. You can "put statistics together" to support anything you want. However, apparently it is not possible to simply say anything you want and not even go to the trouble of providing supporting facts.

Do I have that right?

In all honesty, I want to thank you for your contribution to the discussion. You have really laid out the viewpoints of the pro-Winnipeg group in stark relief.

 

[Coyotes1934]

Are you crazy??? Of course not. You guys don't know squat about hockey. Only us Canadians do. We live it. We breathe it. Every last one of us. Every. Last. One.

That devotion must disappear as soon as you cross the border because I don't see all of the winter visitors here from Canada every year going to the games. Tickets are always available, but they must not live or breathe it as much as you wish they did. (P.S. That was sarcasm on your part, right...???)

 

[razorsedge]

Pfft, do all the Canadian snowbirds down there where shirts saying they're Canadian?

Anyways, How much the average person makes in Winnipeg (and surrounding areas) is irrelevant, cause if people want to go to the game, they will. Being from Winnipeg, the general idea I get from people is, they'll buy tickets to see a game as often as possible.

15,000 seats to small? Nah, with all the revenue sources for teams these days, especially in Canada where corporate support is a given (yes, even in the Peg), teams don't need to rely on attendance as much anymore. Source? With some of the horribly low attendance these days in some places, it's gotta be true.

Winnipeg was a failed market before...I think it was due to circumstances surrounding the team 10 years ago, but I'll go with that statement. If you think Winnipeg isn't worth another go as an NHL market, than why did Atlanta, Colorado, and Minnesota get NHL teams after failing once before? Plus it looks like the next city to get a team (hopefully not the Pens) will be KC, didn't they fail miserably once before?

 

[MuzikMachine]

Are you crazy??? Of course not. You guys don't know squat about hockey. Only us Canadians do. We live it. We breathe it. Every last one of us. Every. Last. One.

I know lots of people who were born and raised in Canada that could care less about hockey. Contrary to what CBC has been decreeing of late just to gain viewers (ie Hockey: A People's History, Hockeyville, etc.), there is a lot more to Canada and Canadians than just hockey.

I think people in northern and eastern Europe might challenge your notion that only Canadians know anything about hockey.

 

[MoMiester]

What exactly do you expect to see on a site supporting the return of the Jets? If it offends you so much to see people have hope, then I'd advise you to stay off that site.

This site isn't exactly the intellectual utopia of the internet either. If you're talking about hockey knowledge I'd pick a site full of Winnipeggers over this place any day.

Like I said, Let a team move there but if someone started a anti-W'Peg hockey site (I suppose you live in the PEG ?) and said things like

Winnipeggers are (Fill in the blank)
Their city looks like (Fill in the blank)
Do they even come out of their teepee's ?

As a Pegger, you would not comment? I bet the cronies on that site would be lighting the IT highway like crazy. Probably you too !!! Just wondering since you came here to comment ?

Let them get a team. I do think the website is a good start at looking at a team, has some good information and a good start but it has so many holes that are danced around.

Just go back and read from the beginning when it was started and compare to where the league is now. It was started when they thought they could pick up a team after the lockout for $40M-$60M with a team salary of $29M and as that world collapses, the facts are changed to the point most of the talk is nothing more than talking **** about hockey fans in other cities, making up lies about teams passing as the truth, looking at an item and turning it around and just downright lies. I don't post there but I read the site sometimes.

Example: They talk of how teams are bad and not supported because they get revenue sharing but the business case on the site has revenue sharing included while still loosing $5M a year.

They should be talking about revenue ideas and getting the site owner to publish the results of the letter he sent to businesses asking for their level of support (I can not find the results on the web page....maybe it is because no one responded?) It would help solve the business support question.

I think sometimes all they have left is to talk trash. So be it. Does not effect any team I support or ever will but if that is all that is left (and the questions have not all been answered no matter what is said), I would think the trash talk is a diversion of the real issue.........no one is calling or thinking about the city..

So go ahead, put a team in W'Peg. Who would care anyway......

 

[GSC2k2*]

That devotion must disappear as soon as you cross the border because I don't see all of the winter visitors here from Canada every year going to the games. Tickets are always available, but they must not live or breathe it as much as you wish they did. (P.S. That was sarcasm on your part, right...???)

Yes, it was ...

 

[GSC2k2*]

I know lots of people who were born and raised in Canada that could care less about hockey. Contrary to what CBC has been decreeing of late just to gain viewers (ie Hockey: A People's History, Hockeyville, etc.), there is a lot more to Canada and Canadians than just hockey.

I think people in northern and eastern Europe might challenge your notion that only Canadians know anything about hockey.

Withering sarcasm it was, my friend.

 

[EpochLink]

If Winnipeg gets a team back, fine by me..although I wont move back to Winnipeg just cause of that..I have reasons that I don't want to go back and some are very personal to me just cause....I don't like the city, I don't like the atmosphere and this is coming from me, I grew up there all my life and got the hell out of there...

Wanna hate on me? go ahead, its not like words would hurt my feelings or my view on Winnipeg would change..the only thing I ever liked about Winnipeg was the Jets, when they left, there was nothing to love about that city....

Let the city deal with the native problem and their "growing" population, blah blah blah yeah I heard it all before, I don't give a **** bout that place nor the Province...yeah I hate that place so Sue me ****ers. Rant over.

 

[Coyotes1934]

Pfft, do all the Canadian snowbirds down there where shirts saying they're Canadian?

Maybe it is aboot how they all talk, eh? Actually all you have to do is look at their license plates to know where they're from...

 

[MuzikMachine]

Withering sarcasm it was, my friend.

Hey, I gotta get a rant in too.

It seems even Wikipedia, or its contributors, are hoping/dreaming for a return of the Jets. This pic (originally from Jan 20 Winnipeg Sun) was included in the article pertaining to the Jets.

View attachment 20438