Did Bettman try and save the Jets?

coyoteshockeyfan

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so then how do you justify THAT position with nashville, washington, florida and phoenix? they are all "underdrawing"
and my argument is based on today's winnipeg, not the 80's or 90's.
for instance did you know that an electrician ( i field i KNOW about) makes more pay in winnipeg , than atlanta, houston, kansas city, phoenix, nashville, and is even with about 10 other nhl cities? and the cost of living in the peg is quite low, meaning more disposible income.so if that is true for most job descriptions,then why do you question the validity of fans paying for the nhl here, and not those other markets? i mean the tampa lightning were in talks with the city about relocating before they won the cup.so apparantly some in the nhl believe a wpg. team will work.
there is plenty of money in winnipeg. believe me. and it's obvious that the city has passion for hockey as they sell over 8000 tix per game for the AHL. and if i'm not mistaken , the lux boxes are all sold . so if a company pays for a box for 2nd rate hockey , then i think you could chalk em up for the nhl, no?
bottom line here is i think ( and so do a lot of others) that winnipeg deserves a second shot at nhl hockey.
lastly , the SOLE reason the jets left winnipeg, was the winnipeg arena.
the jets received NO revenue from the arena. and the upper seats were constantly half empty because you could not see the ice from them. (and yes , that does matter). if winnipeg got a newer arena, the jets might've never left. and even the dynasty isles during the cup years didnt sell out every game. in the 80-'s sellouts were not nerarly as common as they are today. heck even the leafs and wings had TERRIBLE attendence in the 80's. so winnipegs attendence was pretty much on par with the rest of the league, despite the old barn and it's obstructed views.
it seems to me that you are not as familiar with this particular topic as you pretend to be. and like they say ... if you dont know what you're talking about ...well you know the rest. :)
Ok, since you want to talk about economy, that can be done. The Canadian Taxpayer Federation had this to say about the Manitoba economy:

"There is little question that Manitoba’s economy has been underperforming for many years. Though not the worst economy in the country, Manitoba ranks 8th among the provinces, when measuring average economic growth between 1993 and projected 2005. In that same time frame, the national average for Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth was 5.21 per cent, while Manitoba showed a meager 4.48 per cent annual growth rate....In every case, Manitoba is set to grow slower than the rest of the country. In 2004 the national average for expected real GDP growth is 3.3 per cent, employment is 1.5 per cent and retail sales is 4.5 per cent. Despite low inflation and an unemployment rate that is the lowest in the country, (5.0 per cent in 2003) neither have contributed toward greater buoyancy in Manitoba’s economy. That is a worrisome trend when one considers the fiscal pressures that will be exerted on the province over the next ten to fifteen years."

Underperforming, meager, slow growth, and worrisome? Ouch. Well, let's continue. The Canadian Taxpayer Federation also noted the deficiencies of the economy in Manitoba in a May 6th, 2005 article titled "Digging deeper into debt," stating that "Manitoba lingers in the have-not column of provinces" and that certain aspects "keep Manitoba back."

And lastly, stating that lower cost of living correlates to more disposable income is a trainwreck in logic. Lower cost of living does not allow for more disposable income if one's income is lower to begin with. According to Statistics Canada, the median total income in Manitoba is $4000 less than the Canadian average, more than $8000 less than in Ontario, and over $12,000 less than in Alberta.

So, how does that phrase about not knowing what one is talking about go?


http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Prebudget_Submission_(Feb_12_2004).pdf

http://www.taxpayer.com/main/news.php?news_id=2289

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil108a.htm?sdi=income
 

vivianmb

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Ok, since you want to talk about economy, that can be done. The Canadian Taxpayer Federation had this to say about the Manitoba economy:

"There is little question that Manitoba’s economy has been underperforming for many years. Though not the worst economy in the country, Manitoba ranks 8th among the provinces, when measuring average economic growth between 1993 and projected 2005. In that same time frame, the national average for Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth was 5.21 per cent, while Manitoba showed a meager 4.48 per cent annual growth rate....In every case, Manitoba is set to grow slower than the rest of the country. In 2004 the national average for expected real GDP growth is 3.3 per cent, employment is 1.5 per cent and retail sales is 4.5 per cent. Despite low inflation and an unemployment rate that is the lowest in the country, (5.0 per cent in 2003) neither have contributed toward greater buoyancy in Manitoba’s economy. That is a worrisome trend when one considers the fiscal pressures that will be exerted on the province over the next ten to fifteen years."

Underperforming, meager, slow growth, and worrisome? Ouch. Well, let's continue. The Canadian Taxpayer Federation also noted the deficiencies of the economy in Manitoba in a May 6th, 2005 article titled "Digging deeper into debt," stating that "Manitoba lingers in the have-not column of provinces" and that certain aspects "keep Manitoba back."

And lastly, stating that lower cost of living correlates to more disposable income is a trainwreck in logic. Lower cost of living does not allow for more disposable income if one's income is lower to begin with. According to Statistics Canada, the median total income in Manitoba is $4000 less than the Canadian average, more than $8000 less than in Ontario, and over $12,000 less than in Alberta.

So, how does that phrase about not knowing what one is talking about go?


http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Prebudget_Submission_(Feb_12_2004).pdf

http://www.taxpayer.com/main/news.php?news_id=2289

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil108a.htm?sdi=income

buddy boy .... i have done electrical construction in cities all over the usa. manitoba's wages are higher than almost all of them. i'm sure electricians are not special. phoenix, atlanta, nashville, raleigh, kansas city,columbus, dallas, houston,denver , and especially florida, they all make substantially LESS. this is FACT. canada's standard of pay is generally higher than the US. for instance, north dakota is manitoba's neighbor to the south, yet they make about 40% what manitoba makes per hour. same area. both rural. huge difference in pay ( and i did factor exchange rate for the dollar). so just because other provinces have higher rate of pay doesnt prove jack.
the fact is that the nhl's recent ( last 20 years ) plans to woo non fans is a disaster.or as you call a logical train wreck.
 

coyoteshockeyfan

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So we should disregard the facts from reputable places such as Statistics Canada (which The Economist referred to as having "best statistical office in the world") and instead believe you without a shred of proof, just because you say so. Ok then.
 

Sotnos

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i mean the tampa lightning were in talks with the city about relocating before they won the cup.so apparantly some in the nhl believe a wpg. team will work.
Way to misrepresent something (and get a team name wrong to boot). They were not "in talks". If the scant reports on this are to be believed, an inquiry was made and that's where it ended. If you think it was anything more than posturing to get sweeter deals out of the Tampa local government, you're grasping.

Again, I've heard this one too but I don't remember if it was confirmed by any decent source or not.
 

vivianmb

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Way to misrepresent something (and get a team name wrong to boot). They were not "in talks". If the scant reports on this are to be believed, an inquiry was made and that's where it ended. If you think it was anything more than posturing to get sweeter deals out of the Tampa local government, you're grasping.

Again, I've heard this one too but I don't remember if it was confirmed by any decent source or not.

it was all over hockey night in canada
 

vivianmb

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So we should disregard the facts from reputable places such as Statistics Canada (which The Economist referred to as having "best statistical office in the world") and instead believe you without a shred of proof, just because you say so. Ok then.

i didnt dispute any thing you cited on that post. i just stated that you're comparing manitoba to canada, i'm comparing winnipeg,manitoba to other nhl markets.when you read try to absorb what you see, not what you want to see.
 

coyoteshockeyfan

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Mar 17, 2004
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vivianmb said:
phoenix, atlanta, nashville, raleigh, kansas city,columbus, dallas, houston,denver , and especially florida,
i didnt dispute any thing you cited on that post. i just stated that you're comparing manitoba to canada, i'm comparing winnipeg,manitoba to other nhl markets.when you read try to absorb what you see, not what you want to see.
Ok, I can quickly run through a handful of these cities as well.

6 cities in Florida made the top 20 in the Top 200 Best Performing Cities list by the Milken Institute in 2004 for economic standards, 7 made the top 20 in 2005. Phoenix also was high on the list (#3 in 2004, #15 in 2005). Mesa, AZ (suburb of Phoenix) ranked #3 on Money magazine's list of best places to live, Raleigh came in 4th, and Columbus came in 8th. Flour Mound, Allen, The Woodlands, Sugar Land, and Frisco (all cities near either Dallas or Houston) each made the list of the top 25 cities in terms of median household income.

Needless to say, I think most of the cities you mentioned are doing alright.


http://www.ipfw.edu/cri/dev/PDF/best_performing_cities_2004.pdf
http://bestcities.milkeninstitute.org/
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/top100/bigcities.html
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/top25s/highincomes.html
 

vivianmb

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Ok, I can quickly run through a handful of these cities as well.

6 cities in Florida made the top 20 in the Top 200 Best Performing Cities list by the Milken Institute in 2004 for economic standards, 7 made the top 20 in 2005. Phoenix also was high on the list (#3 in 2004, #15 in 2005). Mesa, AZ (suburb of Phoenix) ranked #3 on Money magazine's list of best places to live, Raleigh came in 4th, and Columbus came in 8th. Flour Mound, Allen, The Woodlands, Sugar Land, and Frisco (all cities near either Dallas or Houston) each made the list of the top 25 cities in terms of median household income.

Needless to say, I think most of the cities you mentioned are doing alright.


http://www.ipfw.edu/cri/dev/PDF/best_performing_cities_2004.pdf
http://bestcities.milkeninstitute.org/
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/top100/bigcities.html
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/top25s/highincomes.html

i dont care how a city "performs" bud i'm talking income and disposible income.and most importantly.... AMOUNT OF HOCKEY FANS. put your books away for a minute and THINK.
 

coyoteshockeyfan

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Silly me, I was under the impression that data on a variety of economic conditions (including income) is more useful than a rundown of how much an electrician makes according to one poster in a hodgepodge of cities.
 

Crosby87.*

Guest
Yuck, what a god awful slogan for Manitoba.."Spirited Energy", they can't be called "Friendly Manitoba" anymore since Winnipeg has been "murder capital of Canada" for how many years....:shakehead

2 MILLION DOLLARS FOR THAT SLOGAN....:biglaugh:

That slogan makes me sick, and embarrassed to live here.
 

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
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Ok, since you want to talk about economy, that can be done. The Canadian Taxpayer Federation had this to say about the Manitoba economy:

"There is little question that Manitoba’s economy has been underperforming for many years. Though not the worst economy in the country, Manitoba ranks 8th among the provinces, when measuring average economic growth between 1993 and projected 2005. In that same time frame, the national average for Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth was 5.21 per cent, while Manitoba showed a meager 4.48 per cent annual growth rate....In every case, Manitoba is set to grow slower than the rest of the country. In 2004 the national average for expected real GDP growth is 3.3 per cent, employment is 1.5 per cent and retail sales is 4.5 per cent. Despite low inflation and an unemployment rate that is the lowest in the country, (5.0 per cent in 2003) neither have contributed toward greater buoyancy in Manitoba’s economy. That is a worrisome trend when one considers the fiscal pressures that will be exerted on the province over the next ten to fifteen years."

Underperforming, meager, slow growth, and worrisome? Ouch. Well, let's continue. The Canadian Taxpayer Federation also noted the deficiencies of the economy in Manitoba in a May 6th, 2005 article titled "Digging deeper into debt," stating that "Manitoba lingers in the have-not column of provinces" and that certain aspects "keep Manitoba back."

And lastly, stating that lower cost of living correlates to more disposable income is a trainwreck in logic. Lower cost of living does not allow for more disposable income if one's income is lower to begin with. According to Statistics Canada, the median total income in Manitoba is $4000 less than the Canadian average, more than $8000 less than in Ontario, and over $12,000 less than in Alberta.

So, how does that phrase about not knowing what one is talking about go?


http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Prebudget_Submission_(Feb_12_2004).pdf

http://www.taxpayer.com/main/news.php?news_id=2289

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil108a.htm?sdi=income

While growth in the past has been slow, the economy has really started to turn around the last few years and many are saying that Manitoba is gonna experience an economic boom. Heres a reveiw of the Manitobian economy for 2006 and forcasts for 2007. We are on par with the Canadian average of growth and look to exceed it in the coming years.
http://www.gov.mb.ca/finance/reports/pdf/highlights.pdf
As far as the issue of corporate support, well there are plenty of big corporations that make their home in this province. Aerospace giants such as Bristol and Standard aero headline an impressive list of manufactures along with the likes of Boeing, Winpak, Newflier and Motor Coach. Such iancial institutes like Greatwest Life and Investors Group have large ties here. MTS is an telecommunications giant up here in Canada. Can west global is one of the largest Television providers in Canada and could potentialy offer a very lucrative television deal for any possible team. Manitoba hydro is an energy giant, and the list goes on. Winnipeg is also probably fast becoming the biotech hotbead of Canada and that offers exciting future.
I fully beleive that Winnipeg can support an NHL team but it will have to take a person with a very strong buisness plan and a lot of vision to pull it off. But if done properly then I can see it work here.
 
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coyoteshockeyfan

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While growth in the past has been slow, the economy has really started to turn around the last few years and many are saying that manitoba Winnipeg expecially is gonna have a population boom like Calgary. Everywhere you go more houses are being built here and there is a lot of talk for exciting new industries, like the Bio tech sector. Heres a reveiw of the Manitobian economy for 2006 nd 2007. We are on par with the Canadian average and look to exceed it in the coming years.
http://www.gov.mb.ca/finance/reports/pdf/highlights.pdf
I have seen that Manitoba did have a fine year, especially in various medical fields. Hopefully for Manitoba that will continue over the next couple years, because unfortunately it takes more than two decent years to make up for a decade (or longer) of underachievement.
 

Coyotes1934

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I didn't see this mentioned... but you need to keep in mind that a lot of Phoenix's population is transplants from cold weather cities around the US and Canada. So why aren't all of those "die hard fans who grew up with hockey in their blood" attending the games? :dunno:
 

Sotnos

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it was all over hockey night in canada
What, on Satellite Hotstove? :biglaugh: You're making it sound like they were deep in talks and a move was imminent. I probably shouldn't bother, but since you're questioning the reading comprehension of others, read what I posted again. It was posturing, kinda like Mario talking to reps from Kansas City. Get it?

Silly me, I was under the impression that data on a variety of economic conditions (including income) is more useful than a rundown of how much an electrician makes according to one poster in a hodgepodge of cities.
No offense to you, but I think you're wasting your time trying to reason with that person. :)
 

GSC2k2*

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What, on Satellite Hotstove? :biglaugh: You're making it sound like they were deep in talks and a move was imminent. I probably shouldn't bother, but since you're questioning the reading comprehension of others, read what I posted again. It was posturing, kinda like Mario talking to reps from Kansas City. Get it?


No offense to you, but I think you're wasting your time trying to reason with that person. :)
It's laughable, to be honest. I read that poster's preposterous "arguments" earlier and was going top respond, but I see that I was beaten to the punch.

Anyone with a clue would know better than to argue Canada's relative standard of living opposite that of the US collectively. The US is large enough that there is a wide disparity of living standards. For example, Arkansas is lower than that of Canada.

Only a pretty uninformed person would extrapolate electricians' wages to economy-wide statements. As an infrastructure lawyer, I am pretty familiar with the construction industry myself, "vivian". I am pretty sure that you are full of crap, even with respect to the pathetic point that you were trying to make, as if one could extrapolate electricians' wages to mean anything. Assuming you are an electrician, you may very well be comparing union-scale in Canada to non-union scale in the US (which you probably would be if you were coming there). As an electrician, I highly doubt that you could even get a work visa in the US, for that matter, so your claims pretty much shred what little credibility you have. The entire concept that electrician's wages are relevant to anything is so silly that I can't believe it is even being debated.
 

GSC2k2*

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so then how do you justify THAT position with nashville, washington, florida and phoenix? they are all "underdrawing"
and my argument is based on today's winnipeg, not the 80's or 90's.

As best I can tell, your argument is based upon completely unsupported assertions on your part. By the way, are you aware that "underdrawing" Nashville is up 1500 fans per game over last season? Or that, while Florida is down 600 fans per game this year, that is a smaller decline than Edmonton (800)?

for instance did you know that an electrician ( i field i KNOW about) makes more pay in winnipeg , than atlanta, houston, kansas city, phoenix, nashville, and is even with about 10 other nhl cities? and the cost of living in the peg is quite low, meaning more disposible income.

Already conclusively dismissed by other posters.

so if that is true for most job descriptions,then why do you question the validity of fans paying for the nhl here, and not those other markets?

Ummmmmm ... because it is not true for most job descriptions?

there is plenty of money in winnipeg. believe me.

Sir, you have shown no credibility with your claims. Why should anyone believe you? And for the record, there is not "plenty of money in Winnipeg".

and it's obvious that the city has passion for hockey as they sell over 8000 tix per game for the AHL.

Hmmm, a half full building for an apparently "hockey-mad" city in what is supposedly a state-of-the-art facility paying ticket prices several multiples less than NHL prices. Pretty convincing, all right.

and if i'm not mistaken , the lux boxes are all sold . so if a company pays for a box for 2nd rate hockey , then i think you could chalk em up for the nhl, no?

Putting aside the extremely high probability that you ARE mistaken, surely you are kidding. If a company is prepared to pay 40k for a box, you can "chalk them up" to pay 150k for a better product? That is akin to saying that since a lot of people buy Toyota Corollas, you can chalk them all up to buy Porsches.

lastly , the SOLE reason the jets left winnipeg, was the winnipeg arena. the jets received NO revenue from the arena. and the upper seats were constantly half empty because you could not see the ice from them. (and yes , that does matter).

Thank you for supporting my point that in the Winnipeg hockey market, they will not show up in any circumstance. They can be persuaded not to attend if conditions are not adequate. According to you (and others), Winnipeggers will show up and sell out no matter what. If they won't show up for a bad arena, they definitely won't show up for hugely expensive tickets.

if winnipeg got a newer arena, the jets might've never left.

As I said elsewhere, if the y had outfitted the arena such that everyone got to sit at the arena on comfy couches and were fed grapes (or roast beef sandwiches with endless supplies of beer) for free, Winnipeg might not have left. Whatever.

and even the dynasty isles during the cup years didnt sell out every game. in the 80-'s sellouts were not nerarly as common as they are today. heck even the leafs and wings had TERRIBLE attendence in the 80's.

THe Leafs never had terrible attendance. Mind you, I am a little baffled as to how that has anything to do with anything.

so winnipegs attendence was pretty much on par with the rest of the league, despite the old barn and it's obstructed views.

Oh, I see. Well, check the attendance stats, sport. If by "pretty much on par", you mean "consistently bottom five in the league", then sir you are spot on. Here, do a little reading of actual numbers on the topic:

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/NHL-attendance.htm

It does not go back forever, but you get the idea.

it seems to me that you are not as familiar with this particular topic as you pretend to be. and like they say ... if you dont know what you're talking about ...well you know the rest. :)

You may want to take your own advice, sir.
 

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
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Winnipeg
I have seen that Manitoba did have a fine year, especially in various medical fields. Hopefully for Manitoba that will continue over the next couple years, because unfortunately it takes more than two decent years to make up for a decade (or longer) of underachievement.

No denying that, just pointing out that things are looking up and that hopefully the trend continues.
 

KrisKing*

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As best I can tell, your argument is based upon completely unsupported assertions on your part. By the way, are you aware that "underdrawing" Nashville is up 1500 fans per game over last season? Or that, while Florida is down 600 fans per game this year, that is a smaller decline than Edmonton (800)?



Already conclusively dismissed by other posters.



Ummmmmm ... because it is not true for most job descriptions?



Sir, you have shown no credibility with your claims. Why should anyone believe you? And for the record, there is not "plenty of money in Winnipeg".



Hmmm, a half full building for an apparently "hockey-mad" city in what is supposedly a state-of-the-art facility paying ticket prices several multiples less than NHL prices. Pretty convincing, all right.



Putting aside the extremely high probability that you ARE mistaken, surely you are kidding. If a company is prepared to pay 40k for a box, you can "chalk them up" to pay 150k for a better product? That is akin to saying that since a lot of people buy Toyota Corollas, you can chalk them all up to buy Porsches.



Thank you for supporting my point that in the Winnipeg hockey market, they will not show up in any circumstance. They can be persuaded not to attend if conditions are not adequate. According to you (and others), Winnipeggers will show up and sell out no matter what. If they won't show up for a bad arena, they definitely won't show up for hugely expensive tickets.



As I said elsewhere, if the y had outfitted the arena such that everyone got to sit at the arena on comfy couches and were fed grapes (or roast beef sandwiches with endless supplies of beer) for free, Winnipeg might not have left. Whatever.



THe Leafs never had terrible attendance. Mind you, I am a little baffled as to how that has anything to do with anything.



Oh, I see. Well, check the attendance stats, sport. If by "pretty much on par", you mean "consistently bottom five in the league", then sir you are spot on. Here, do a little reading of actual numbers on the topic:

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/NHL-attendance.htm

It does not go back forever, but you get the idea.



You may want to take your own advice, sir.

Why don't you give it a rest with your anti-Winnipeg rants. We get it, you don't want Winnipeg to have an NHL team because you're a jealous hamiltonian and you're pissed because nobody talks about your city anymore.

It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that you know very little about Winnipeg or Manitoba, much less that you are the NHL Relocation Genius that you seem to think you are.
 

KrisKing*

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It's laughable, to be honest. I read that poster's preposterous "arguments" earlier and was going top respond, but I see that I was beaten to the punch.

Anyone with a clue would know better than to argue Canada's relative standard of living opposite that of the US collectively. The US is large enough that there is a wide disparity of living standards. For example, Arkansas is lower than that of Canada.

Only a pretty uninformed person would extrapolate electricians' wages to economy-wide statements. As an infrastructure lawyer, I am pretty familiar with the construction industry myself, "vivian". I am pretty sure that you are full of crap, even with respect to the pathetic point that you were trying to make, as if one could extrapolate electricians' wages to mean anything. Assuming you are an electrician, you may very well be comparing union-scale in Canada to non-union scale in the US (which you probably would be if you were coming there). As an electrician, I highly doubt that you could even get a work visa in the US, for that matter, so your claims pretty much shred what little credibility you have. The entire concept that electrician's wages are relevant to anything is so silly that I can't believe it is even being debated.
Oh nevermind, I see you're a lawyer, so you obviously are better and smarter than the rest of us dolts. Continue to put us down in the most condescending way you can.
 

Sotnos

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We get it, you don't want Winnipeg to have an NHL team because you're a jealous hamiltonian and you're pissed because nobody talks about your city anymore.
Not that he needs me to vouch for him, but having been around this board a while I'd say that poster is not a booster of NHL hockey to Hamilton at all. He's just a REALIST, though that seems to be a problem for some people. Honestly, what do you expect people to say when they're dealing with someone who thinks their opinion counts for more than statistical reports compiled by the governement?
 

vivianmb

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It's laughable, to be honest. I read that poster's preposterous "arguments" earlier and was going top respond, but I see that I was beaten to the punch.

Anyone with a clue would know better than to argue Canada's relative standard of living opposite that of the US collectively. The US is large enough that there is a wide disparity of living standards. For example, Arkansas is lower than that of Canada.

Only a pretty uninformed person would extrapolate electricians' wages to economy-wide statements. As an infrastructure lawyer, I am pretty familiar with the construction industry myself, "vivian". I am pretty sure that you are full of crap, even with respect to the pathetic point that you were trying to make, as if one could extrapolate electricians' wages to mean anything. Assuming you are an electrician, you may very well be comparing union-scale in Canada to non-union scale in the US (which you probably would be if you were coming there). As an electrician, I highly doubt that you could even get a work visa in the US, for that matter, so your claims pretty much shred what little credibility you have. The entire concept that electrician's wages are relevant to anything is so silly that I can't believe it is even being debated.
 

vivianmb

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actually bud, i'm a union electrician in NY city.and live in stratford, ct. i've worked in ibew #3 for 15 years. i also hold an e-2 license in connecticut. i do know the UNION scales in other cities. they are listed on the ibew website on the jobs board. and i've worked in a few cities ( minneapolis,kansas city, tulsa, OKC,dallas,omaha,st. joseph mo.,st louis,chicago,quad cities, des moines.) and seen for myself.in fact winnipeg's wages are almost identical to connecticut's highest paid local .CONNECTICUT land of milk and honey , rich man's paradise. and winnipeg's wages are higher than 3/4 of the state.
i also have permanent resident standing in canada and own land outside of winnipeg , so i think i'm qualified to speak on this matter. when we land in winnipeg and i start working UNION in that city i'll take home about 50 dollars a week less than working in manhatten after all associated costs are factored in.
and with houses averaging under 250000 in winnipeg and about 450000 in NY's suburbs( nassau, suffolk, putnam, jersey) how is that not relavent? HIGH PAY LOW COST OF LIVING. in fact i'll go on a limb and say that winnipeg is one of the best kept secrets around. so stop painting it as a depressed dump.it is not. and i checked out tons of other locales to move to ( see above).before we chose the peg.
your argument that winnipeg cant afford a team... OVER try another angle pal. WINNIPEG DESERVES AN NHL HOCKEY TEAM.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Why don't you give it a rest with your anti-Winnipeg rants. We get it, you don't want Winnipeg to have an NHL team because you're a jealous hamiltonian and you're pissed because nobody talks about your city anymore.

It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that you know very little about Winnipeg or Manitoba, much less that you are the NHL Relocation Genius that you seem to think you are.
As for Hamilton, please read post #114 in this thread. It will demonstrate how uninformed you are about my views on Hamilton as a viable franchise location (short story - even worse than Winnipeg). You should probably inform yourself, or at least read a few posts in the thread where you are posting, before forming your conceptions.

I find it kind of funny, though, that most people who post on this Board seem to be unable to discuss views objectively and divorce themselves from "their team", much as we always used to criticize the GM's when they could not agree on any changes back when they had some authority (pre-competition-committee). Consequently, most of those posters seem unable to conceive the possibility that there are those of us who can look at things objectively. I am not the only one who can do that; the others, you know who you are.

I could fire off a pretty decent one-liner with the opportunity that you gave me in your last paragraph, but it really would not be fair. Plus, it might earn me a warning.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Oh nevermind, I see you're a lawyer, so you obviously are better and smarter than the rest of us dolts. Continue to put us down in the most condescending way you can.
Your perception of my post probably says more about how you perceive yourself than anything I or anyone else could say. I will leave it at that.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
your argument that winnipeg cant afford a team... OVER try another angle pal. WINNIPEG DESERVES AN NHL HOCKEY TEAM.

Wow, you've convinced me ... :shakehead

When you come to the realization that more than electricians go to hockey games (especially the substantial portion of most crowds that are there because they are getting it through a corporate connection), perhaps we can talk some more.
 

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