Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - playoff edition

[JimEIV]

I can respect the notion that a certain player may or may not be worth a certain amount and be hesitant to pay it. That's fine. But the market is what the market is. If you want to be competitive, at some point you have to play in it for the big boys. Only doing it for Dougie is probably not enough and we can't just hope that every contract is going to be Jack Hughes'. If we don't sign them to market rate deals, we trade Timo and Bratt for late firsts and mid prospects, wait for them to develop and hope that they turn out near as good as the guys that we traded and we can pay them pennies their first few years rather than market rate. And I just don't think that's a viable philosophy.

I am very, very nervous about paying Timo long term. I don't feel like he's a guy that is going to age well at all. Love the player...but long term I could see how that deal goes sour. Bratt I have less concern about the deal going sour, but I can see how the team and certain people may want to expand the portfolio of roster composition, so to speak.

But you have to shit or get off the pot with these type of guys...and I don't think we are getting better in the immediate future if we move on and I don't know that anyone wants to go two steps back from where we are now. I could definitely see the team split the difference and move one and keep one, but we can't be refusing to pay all of the very good players market rate either. And yeah, doing so may result in some bad long term results...but in fairness so could not paying these guys lol

Everything you are saying, I agree with. The question is what are we risking in the future giving Meier a big contract?

We need to at least consider that we already have two immovable contracts in Hamilton and Palat with Mercer on deck to be paid. It would seem choices are going to have to made somewhere?

 

[JrFischer54]

Everything you are saying, I agree with. The question is what are we risking in the future giving Meier a big contract?

We need to at least consider that we already two immovable contracts in Hamilton and Palat with Mercer on deck to be paid. It would seem choices are going to have to made somewhere?

i dont know what you are talking about but im sure the devils want to keep both bratt and timo. if they can only sign 1 then its 10000% timo. you dont go out there and deal those pieces for him only to trade him a year later. love his physical play his passion way more so then bratt the team needs more timo players then they do bratt.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Everything you are saying, I agree with. The question is what are we risking in the future giving Meier a big contract?

We need to at least consider that we already have two immovable contracts in Hamilton and Palat with Mercer on deck to be paid. It would seem choices are going to have to made somewhere?

They have plenty of room to sign both Bratt and Meier longterm, along with Mercer.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Everything you are saying, I agree with. The question is what are we risking in the future giving Meier a big contract?

We need to at least consider that we already have two immovable contracts in Hamilton and Palat with Mercer on deck to be paid. It would seem choices are going to have to made somewhere?

They're going to pay a 1st to have someone take Hamilton's contract at some point. That was pretty much decided when the contract was signed. Palat's 5th year was probably planned to be bought out if he can't be moved. The onus now is to make use of those players while you have them.

After next year, the cap *should* go up enough to accommodate raises for Mercer and the various depth pieces that will need modest raises. The real trouble doesn't start until if/when Nemec comes off his ELC and you've already had to pay Luke. By that point you're probably looking at trading off the first group of complimentary pieces to this core and building back up again (not a rebuild, but think of how the Penguins have ebbed and flowed in the Crosby/Malkin/Letang era).

You have to pay your best players and keep doing it until you can't afford to anymore. That's not the point we are at yet.

 

[JimEIV]

They have plenty of room to sign both Bratt and Meier longterm, along with Mercer.

I don't know how much room there is? Not sure how anyone could really know with so many moving parts?

I mean Haula/Tatar need to be replaced/resigned

Wood you replace with Lazar

McLeod, Bastian, Sharangovich and Boqvist need contracts

Luke comes in as 3LD and Bahl replaces Graves? Can he?

Severson? Is Nemec ready to replace Severson? Do we need to add an insurance RHD for next year? Do we even want Luke and Nemec in the lineup at the same time?

How in the world can you figure out how much room we have?

That's not even talking about Timo and Bratt

 

[NjDevsRR]

I don't know how much room there is? Not sure how anyone could really know with so many moving parts

How in the world can you figure out how much room we have?

Omfg. This has been posted ad naseum by multiple posters for months…

 

[Forge]

They're going to pay a 1st to have someone take Hamilton's contract at some point. That was pretty much decided when the contract was signed. Palat's 5th year was probably planned to be bought out if he can't be moved. The onus now is to make use of those players while you have them.

After next year, the cap *should* go up enough to accommodate raises for Mercer and the various depth pieces that will need modest raises. The real trouble doesn't start until if/when Nemec comes off his ELC and you've already had to pay Luke. By that point you're probably looking at trading off the first group of complimentary pieces to this core and building back up again (not a rebuild, but think of how the Penguins have ebbed and flowed in the Crosby/Malkin/Letang era).

You have to pay your best players and keep doing it until you can't afford to anymore. That's not the point we are at yet.

I don't think that is the case. It certainly could happen, but I'm not committing myself to that line of thinking already. I think his shot is going to play no matter what. He has 5 years left at age 30, 31, 32, 33, 34. If he's 15 / 50 (15 goals, 50 points) at age 34 as a power play specialist playing on the third pair at even strength, he wouldn't be worth the money, but I don't know that he's a detriment to the team overall either. 5 years from now the cap could be high enough that this is not an absolutely crippling scenario.

Also, contractually, someone could take him on his last two years at 6.25M total. I don't think that's a lock to be a first round pick going back.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[Lou Bloom]

I don't know how much room there is? Not sure how anyone could really know with so many moving parts?

I mean Haula/Tatar need to be replaced/resigned

Wood you replace with Lazar

McLeod, Bastian, Sharangovich and Boqvist need contracts

Luke comes in as 3LD and Bahl replaces Graves? Can he?

Severson? Is Nemec ready to replace Severson? Do we need to add an insurance RHD for next year? Do we even want Luke and Nemec in the lineup at the same time?

How in the world can you figure out how much room we have?

That's not even talking about Timo and Bratt

The Devils have a little over $34M in cap space next season, If we assume Bratt and Meier together cost about $17M that still leaves $17M leftover with all of your big money players locked up with only complimentary pieces needed to be signed. Players like McLeod, Bastian, Bahl, Boqvist will all be very cheap considering their role and impact. Players like Luke, Nemec, Holtz, Clarke, Foote and Thompson provide cheap production on ELCs to replace some of the outgoing roster. Even after signing Meier and Bratt the Devils will have more wiggle room cap wise than the majority of NHL teams.

 

[TF1970]

I don't think that is the case. It certainly could happen, but I'm not committing myself to that line of thinking already. I think his shot is going to play no matter what. He has 5 years left at age 30, 31, 32, 33, 34. If he's 15 / 50 (15 goals, 50 points) at age 34 as a power play specialist playing on the third pair at even strength, he wouldn't be worth the money, but I don't know that he's a detriment to the team overall either. 5 years from now the cap could be high enough that this is not an absolutely crippling scenario.

Also, contractually, someone could take him on his last two years at 6.25M total. I don't think that's a lock to be a first round pick going back.

he needs to work with a power skating coach in the offseason. if he could improve his footspeed, that would clearly be ideal.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Luke Schenn, short term replacement for Severson until Nemec is ready? He already played with Quinn so now it would be his chance to play with Luke.

"2. Ryan O’Reilly and Jake McCabe were the big trade deadline splashes, but it’s Luke Schenn who is surprisingly delivering the most value so far for Toronto among the newcomers.

Schenn only has a single point in 10 games, but putting up points isn’t in his job description. He’s there to be a calming, steady presence with an emphasis on defense and so far he’s well exceeded expectations. In these playoffs the Leafs have allowed just 2.1 expected goals against per 60 with Schenn on the ice and even fewer goals against at 0.7 per 60. The former is first among the team’s defenders and the latter is first on the team, period. In fact, Jaccob Slavin is the only defenseman still playing who has been on for fewer goals against per 60.

Slavin just so happens to be the only player whose Defensive Rating is higher than Schenn’s plus-1.8 during these playoffs. Schenn looked like a run-of-the-mill third-pairing option that the Leafs wouldn’t have much use for when he was acquired. Now? He’s become a truly indispensable shutdown defender in the top four, one who has helped fully unlock the potential of the team’s best defenseman, Morgan Rielly. They’ve been Toronto’s best pair and Schenn has been a big part of that."

16 Stats: Toronto's Core 4 reputation, Carolina's depth scoring, a rise in blowout games

Time and time again the Maple Leafs core has failed to execute at the worst times. After a strong Game 4, can they rewrite the narrative?

theathletic.com

 

[Eggtimer]

I don't know how much room there is? Not sure how anyone could really know with so many moving parts?

I mean Haula/Tatar need to be replaced/resigned

Wood you replace with Lazar

McLeod, Bastian, Sharangovich and Boqvist need contracts

Luke comes in as 3LD and Bahl replaces Graves? Can he?

Severson? Is Nemec ready to replace Severson? Do we need to add an insurance RHD for next year? Do we even want Luke and Nemec in the lineup at the same time?

How in the world can you figure out how much room we have?

That's not even talking about Timo and Bratt

Shara is a tha as well is he not ? I don’t see a place fir him either .

 

[Lou Bloom]

Luke Schenn, short term replacement for Severson until Nemec is ready? He already played with Quinn so now it would be his chance to play with Luke.

"2. Ryan O’Reilly and Jake McCabe were the big trade deadline splashes, but it’s Luke Schenn who is surprisingly delivering the most value so far for Toronto among the newcomers.

Schenn only has a single point in 10 games, but putting up points isn’t in his job description. He’s there to be a calming, steady presence with an emphasis on defense and so far he’s well exceeded expectations. In these playoffs the Leafs have allowed just 2.1 expected goals against per 60 with Schenn on the ice and even fewer goals against at 0.7 per 60. The former is first among the team’s defenders and the latter is first on the team, period. In fact, Jaccob Slavin is the only defenseman still playing who has been on for fewer goals against per 60.

Slavin just so happens to be the only player whose Defensive Rating is higher than Schenn’s plus-1.8 during these playoffs. Schenn looked like a run-of-the-mill third-pairing option that the Leafs wouldn’t have much use for when he was acquired. Now? He’s become a truly indispensable shutdown defender in the top four, one who has helped fully unlock the potential of the team’s best defenseman, Morgan Rielly. They’ve been Toronto’s best pair and Schenn has been a big part of that."

16 Stats: Toronto's Core 4 reputation, Carolina's depth scoring, a rise in blowout games

Time and time again the Maple Leafs core has failed to execute at the worst times. After a strong Game 4, can they rewrite the narrative?

theathletic.com

Not a fit for our system. Devils value mobility and puck moving from their defenseman which are two things Schenn is not good at.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Not a fit for our system. Devils value mobility and puck moving from their defenseman which are two things Schenn is not good at.

Brendan Smith isn't particularly mobile dman either, and I think Fitzgerald wants more grit to the team (especially to the forward group which is another story).

However, the bigger problem is that there aren't many good options to be a short term fix for Severson/Nemec. That's why I think Schenn might be a reasonable option for the Devils.

 

[TF1970]

Brendan Smith isn't particularly mobile dman either, and I think Fitzgerald wants more grit to the team (especially to the forward group which is another story).

However, the bigger problem is that there aren't many good options to be a short term fix for Severson/Nemec. That's why I think Schenn might be a reasonable option for the Devils.

Brett Kulak from Edmonton is a name I have thought of.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Brendan Smith isn't particularly mobile dman either, and I think Fitzgerald wants more grit to the team (especially to the forward group which is another story).

However, the bigger problem is that there aren't many good options to be a short term fix for Severson/Nemec. That's why I think Schenn might be a reasonable option for the Devils.

We're talking about adding a depth defenseman until Nemec is ready. There's plenty of options that can fill a #6/7 defensive role for a portion of the season.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Think we need to figure who will be coaching next year, and what sort of system they'll be playing, before anything, free agent-wise.

 

[JimEIV]

You can put a less mobile Defender with Luke on the bottom pairing and be ok. You're basically switching a Left hander for a Right hander with Smith for Schenn.

Think we need to figure who will be coaching next year, and what sort of system they'll be playing, before anything, free agent-wise.

I would imagine if there is a coaching change, the change would be internal? Meaning not a drastic change in system?

 

[Forge]

he needs to work with a power skating coach in the offseason. if he could improve his footspeed, that would clearly be ideal.

Not to bash Dougie...but I wouldn't expect him to really work on improving any part of his game at this juncture of his career. But as long as his shot doesn't go to shit, I think he'll have a usefulness

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Brett Kulak from Edmonton is a name I have thought of.

I wouldn't hate it, though his cap hit is too high for a third pair defenseman. I also don't know why the Oilers would trade him. And isn't he a LD?

We're talking about adding a depth defenseman until Nemec is ready. There's plenty of options that can fill a #6/7 defensive role for a portion of the season.

I agree that adding a depth defenseman isn't the most difficult thing to do, but free agent market is weak, especially if one is looking for a RD with short contract. Of course there is a trade market too.

2024 NHL Free Agents Tracker

Tracking the status and signings of all 2024 NHL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

If you want to be competitive, at some point you have to play in it for the big boys.

Not sure what you mean by that. The Devils had the 3rd most points in the NHL at the time of the Meier trade. That is not competitive?

 

[Forge]

Not sure what you mean by that. The Devils had the 3rd most points in the NHL at the time of the Meier trade. That is not competitive?

But we aren't going to pay Graves, we aren't going to pay Severson...people don't want to pay Timo market rate, people don't want to pay Bratt market rate...you don't have to pay everyone, but you have to pay some of these guys. Otherwise you're just bleeding talent and not guaranteed to recoup it.

 

[TF1970]

I wouldn't hate it, though his cap hit is too high for a third pair defenseman. I also don't know why the Oilers would trade him. And isn't he a LD?

I agree that adding a depth defenseman isn't the most difficult thing to do, but free agent market is weak, especially if one is looking for a RD with short contract. Of course there is a trade market too.

2024 NHL Free Agents Tracker

Tracking the status and signings of all 2024 NHL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

I have just heard his name as a potential cap space clearing casualty from the oilers this summer. He is a left shot, but believe he can play either side.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

But we aren't going to pay Graves, we aren't going to pay Severson...people don't want to pay Timo market rate, people don't want to pay Bratt market rate...you don't have to pay everyone, but you have to pay some of these guys. Otherwise you're just bleeding talent and not guaranteed to recoup it.

Different posters have different opinions but the Devils were an LTIR team this year. They are paying players the market rate IIMO given their contract status, etc. Sure Jack is a value contract now but that contract was fair when they signed it IMO.

 

[jkrdevil]

You can put a less mobile Defender with Luke on the bottom pairing and be ok. You're basically switching a Left hander for a Right hander with Smith for Schenn.


I would imagine if there is a coaching change, the change would be internal? Meaning not a drastic change in system?

Yes, if they don’t extend Ruff it is because the are elevating Brunette to keep him from other teams.