Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[goonybird]

oh we didn't sign Parenteau we only got him because he was cut from a different team

wicked

*spins wheel*

Paul Stastny after he doesn't make a team out of camp! dream realized

 

[TBF1972]

While Sakic did a great job to build the Avs, I would suggest that he should have gone all in on winning at the same time TB did. Colorado has a slew of guys hitting UFA and their best players are starting to get paid, and it will be tough to run it back next year. If Colorado hadn't won it this season they might have missed their window entirely.

colorado has enough cap space to resign the pieces, they need to contend next season. some forwards will walk and it most likely costs them all their cap space and might prevent them to resign mackinnon with a raise early. but it is not impossible. they also have girard, which they can turn into cap space or (a) forward(s) they like.

 

[Saugus]

I still think Elias will get into the hall in a year where they don't have enough people to induct.

It could be 10-15 years from now.

Unless they pull a Guy Carbonneau or Kevin Lowe and induct the next random Canadiens or Oilers non-HOF caliber player they can think of. Like Adam Graves or some shit.

I think Alfredsson will take the same route to getting in. Both he and Elias are right on the cusp and a case could be made either way.

 

[None Shall Pass]

In actual team news:



Meh.



Good, I liked his game. Feel like he can be a late-ish bloomer.

 

[JimEIV]

Colorado Methodically built a team....

It should be noted that Colorado NEVER missed the playoffs more than 3 years in a row at any point since they stole the franchise from Quebec.


But really since Bednar was named head coach its been a straight rise to the top.

Bednar Results:
2016-17 Out of Playoffs
2017-18 Lost in round 1
2018-19 Lost in round 2
2019-20 Lost in round 3
2020-21 Lost in round 2
2021-22 Won Championship

 

[My3Sons]

Disagree entirely, they have smart management and their best guys are locked up, and they have plenty of cap room to replace some of the guys they will lose. They won't be as good next year, but they don't have to be. They lost 4 playoff games and were controlling 60% of the shots, there's a lot of room underneath that for 'still winning the Cup anyway'.

Maybe, maybe not. They have a fantastic first line and first pairing. Probably the best collection of five players in the game. Beyond that, what will they return? Maybe they return what was an excellent second line. Maybe they just return one of those players. I think Byram can probably anchor a second pairing but is Girard a good partner for him? Byram at one point this season had a very cloudy future and is one hit away from those questions being raised again so we will see. I'm not suggesting they fall apart, just that they should have been all in on trying to win instead of building prior to this year. If they compete for the cup again that's great, but they have a lot of work to do beyond their starting five. They don't even know if they will return their goalie, and from the outside, maybe they won't want to. It's just a lot of potential change coming off the cup win.

 

[MauDevils]

Luck is a factor as well. I am sure colorado will claim they were taking makar regardless (i dont believe them) but he was widely viewed as not the best player in that draft at the time.

And they also complained to the league and threw a fit about falling so far that year. That year had a lot to do with the recent lottery changes.

 

[JimEIV]

Makar wasn't even viewed as the best Dman let alone the best player...Kind of makes me think how can scouting have missed so much...

This kid is already already a legend 3 years into his Pro career D+5....How the hell did everyone miss it back in 2017? And make no mistake, even though he went 4thOA, this talent went under the radar in relation to what he has become in almost no time

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Colorado was one of the worst teams in the history of the NHL with MacKinnon in his age 21 season (Jack nearly outscored him this year in like half the games), Landeskog in his age 24 season (only 33 points), Duchene, and Rantanen. Rebuilds and player development aren’t linear.

 

[JimEIV]

Colorado was one of the worst teams in the history of the NHL with MacKinnon in his age 21 season (Jack nearly outscored him this year in like half the games), Landeskog in his age 24 season (only 33 points), Duchene, and Rantanen. Rebuilds and player development aren’t linear.

But really since Bednar was named HC, its been a straight rise to the top.

2016-17 Out of Playoffs * Worst team in the League year - Bednar's 1st year.
2017-18 Lost in round 1
2018-19 Lost in round 2
2019-20 Lost in round 3
2020-21 Lost in round 2
2021-22 Won Championship

 

[Triumph]

Maybe, maybe not. They have a fantastic first line and first pairing. Probably the best collection of five players in the game. Beyond that, what will they return? Maybe they return what was an excellent second line. Maybe they just return one of those players. I think Byram can probably anchor a second pairing but is Girard a good partner for him? Byram at one point this season had a very cloudy future and is one hit away from those questions being raised again so we will see. I'm not suggesting they fall apart, just that they should have been all in on trying to win instead of building prior to this year. If they compete for the cup again that's great, but they have a lot of work to do beyond their starting five. They don't even know if they will return their goalie, and from the outside, maybe they won't want to. It's just a lot of potential change coming off the cup win.

How much better could the Avs realistically get? What were the big names moved at the deadline? Giroux, I guess? With a boatload of cap space available the Avs can go get anyone they want this offseason, no they will not be as good, but they have next year's 1st that they can use to upgrade next year's team.

The only thing the Avs could do would be to upgrade their goaltending and I don't know that that was ever a realistic possibility.

 

[Triumph]

Colorado Methodically built a team....

It should be noted that Colorado NEVER missed the playoffs more than 3 years in a row at any point since they stole the franchise from Quebec.

Their runs to the playoffs in 2010 and 2014 seriously damaged the franchise and they were 'lucky' that they bottomed out in 2017. Neither run was at all sustainable and bad moves were made as a result of them.

But really since Bednar was named head coach its been a straight rise to the top.

Bednar Results:
2016-17 Out of Playoffs
2017-18 Lost in round 1
2018-19 Lost in round 2
2019-20 Lost in round 3
2020-21 Lost in round 2
2021-22 Won Championship

If the Devils kept a coach who had a 47 point season, this place would lose their minds.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Makar wasn't even viewed as the best Dman let alone the best player...Kind of makes me think how can scouting have missed so much...

This kid is already already a legend 3 years into his Pro career D+5....How the hell did everyone miss it back in 2017? And make no mistake, even though he went 4thOA, this talent went under the radar in relation to what he has become in almost no time

He was the wild card of that draft, and he played in the AJHL. There were definitely rumblings that he was the best prospect in that draft, Bob McKenzie's pre draft report had one scout who said he was the best player:

Hischier rides meteoric rise to top of TSN draft ranking - TSN.ca

The Swiss centre finishes atop TSN Hockey's Final 2017 NHL Draft Ranking, while Alberta Junior Hockey League defenceman Cale Makar emerges as the most intriguing prospect.

www.tsn.ca

Of the 10 NHL scouts surveyed for TSN's final set of ranking, five slotted Hischier as the top prospect in the draft; four designated Patrick as No. 1. One scout named defenceman Cale Makar of the Alberta Junior Hockey League's Brooks Bandits as the premier prospect, the first time this season someone other than Hischier or Patrick received a No. 1 vote.

Makar may be the most intriguing prospect in this year’s draft, but more on that in a moment.

...

Makar, a 5-foot-11, 187-pound blueliner, is quite likely the most intriguing prospect. He was rated a B or second/third-round prospect entering the season, but rose to prominence in December at the World Junior A Challenge in Bonnyville, Alta.

Makar's dynamic offensive game immediately wowed NHL scouts and it was from that moment forward he became a person of interest.

The highest-chosen Canadian Junior A prospect drafted into the NHL is centre Kyle Turris, who went third overall from the Burnaby Express to the Phoenix Coyotes in 2007.

Any concerns Makar's game is one-dimensional – all offence – or that he's a sub 6-foot defenceman who isn't a physical specimen in terms of strength and power or that he's coming from a lower competitive level of hockey, are counter-balanced by dynamic skating and high-end offensive skill that leads many to believe he could have the highest ceiling of any prospect in the draft.

More than one scout has compared Makar's style of game as Erik Karlsson-like. Again, no one is saying Makar is the "next Erik Karlsson," but he plays a thrilling game that, if developed, could allow him to be elite.

"Makar could be the best player in this draft," one scout said. "It would be bold to take him at No. 1, ahead of Patrick or Hischier, but he really could be the home run in this draft."

It's an art, and the late rising guy from the AJHL who seems to be elite offensively but a sub 6 foot dman is gonna get GMs/scouts to balk.

 

[My3Sons]

How much better could the Avs realistically get? What were the big names moved at the deadline? Giroux, I guess? With a boatload of cap space available the Avs can go get anyone they want this offseason, no they will not be as good, but they have next year's 1st that they can use to upgrade next year's team.

The only thing the Avs could do would be to upgrade their goaltending and I don't know that that was ever a realistic possibility.

Maybe, but I'm not disagreeing that Colorado is an excellent team, they deserved this cup win, and the team has a chance to be great again next season. My point was only that this team was good enough to potentially win the last few years, not just this season. For better or worse they will be different to some degree next season, probably not as good, and if they only manage one real run after that long build it would be a bit disappointing in retrospect. Like the Braves of the 90s. I'm not making a bigger statement that they will definitely flop next year or that they underachieved this season. As someone else noted, they had some margin of error to win the cup and even if they are not quite as good next season that may very well be enough to repeat. That's a fair point, and it worked for TB prior to this finals. We will see. I just hope NJ can build a team to contend for a solid window and to some extent, I'm curious how the Colorado window plays out and what lessons NJ can draw from it.

 

[MauDevils]

Makar wasn't even viewed as the best Dman let alone the best player...Kind of makes me think how can scouting have missed so much...

This kid is already already a legend 3 years into his Pro career D+5....How the hell did everyone miss it back in 2017? And make no mistake, even though he went 4thOA, this talent went under the radar in relation to what he has become in almost no time

Probably has a lot to do with going the AJHL route.

I'd say his development was very important too. That sophomore year in college was insane. He was given time to develop and walked into a good situation. Pretty much the opposite of how we "develop."

 

[JimEIV]

If the Devils kept a coach who had a 47 point season, this place would lose their minds.

Not in their 1st year, Devils fans wouldn't. Not coming off of Patrick Roy they wouldn't

But really think about what was achieved...Today it is being portrayed as a long work in Progress,,,

Sackic is named GM in 2014...Remember all that shitty Patrick Roy drama they had in in 2015 and 2016...That was a dysfunctional organizations - 8 years later Stanley cup Champions with steady progression from 2017 onward to a Championship.

Wait...Haven't we just been through 8 years since Lou?

 

[Buggsy]

Not in their 1st year, Devils fans wouldn't. Not coming off of Patrick Roy they wouldn't

But really think about what was achieved...Today it is being portrayed as a long work in Progress,,,

Sackic is named GM in 2014...Remember all that shitty Patrick Roy drama they had in in 2015 and 2016...That was a dysfunctional organizations - 8 years later Stanley cup Champions with steady progression from 2017 onward to a Championship.

Wait...Haven't we just been through 8 years since Lou?

You might want to look at the draft years and ages of their top players. you're not making the point you think you are.

Landeskog 29 and drafted 2011
MacKinnon 26 and drafted 2013
Rantanen 25 and drafted 2015
Makar 23 2017 drafted 2017

It's been 9 years since MacKinnon was drafted first overall.

 

[JimEIV]

Probably has a lot to do with going the AJHL route.

I'd say his development was very important too. That sophomore year in college was insane. He was given time to develop and walked into a good situation. Pretty much the opposite of how we "develop."

Sure...But in my opinion that kind of shows how flawed scouting can be on the edge cases.

I mean Makar is achieving what you would be expect a heralded generational #1 overall that has been talked about since 14 years old to achieve...Over a PPG in the regular season, WELL over a PPG in the playoffs...So many trophies he's going to need to build a guest house for them....In JUST 3 Years in the league..


But he was not that...Somebody obviously missed the boat.

 

[Devs3cups]

You might want to look at the draft years and ages of their top players. you're not making the point you think you are.

Landeskog 29 and drafted 2011
MacKinnon 26 and drafted 2013
Rantanen 25 and drafted 2015
Makar 23 2017 drafted 2017

It's been 9 years since MacKinnon was drafted first overall.

11 since Landeskog, wow. It's been precisely 5 years since we've drafted our captain, interesting.

 

[Triumph]

Not in their 1st year, Devils fans wouldn't. Not coming off of Patrick Roy they wouldn't

But really think about what was achieved...Today it is being portrayed as a long work in Progress,,,

Sackic is named GM in 2014...Remember all that shitty Patrick Roy drama they had in in 2015 and 2016...That was a dysfunctional organizations - 8 years later Stanley cup Champions with steady progression from 2017 onward to a Championship.

Wait...Haven't we just been through 8 years since Lou?

This is beyond delusional. It's 47 points. The worst the Devils have finished in the last 30 years is this season with 63 points, that's 8 wins better than that Colorado team. Absolutely nobody would want this guy, who has never coached in the NHL before, to stick around. Yeah, he got a tough break when Roy stepped aside, but the Avs had 82 points the year before. They were fine. Now they were a disaster?

 

[MauDevils]

To be fair their progression started when Landeskog was 24 and MacKinnon was almost 22.

We could very well be in that position five years from now with Jack, Nico and Luke.

This is like rebuild part two because we got nothing out of picks like Zacha, McLeod and Smith. Colorado also had their setbacks with Duchene and Jost.

 

[Triumph]

Sure...But in my opinion that kind of shows how flawed scouting can be on the edge cases.

I mean Makar is achieving what you would be expect a heralded generational #1 overall that has been talked about since 14 years old to achieve...Over a PPG in the regular season, WELL over a PPG in the playoffs...So many trophies he's going to need to build a guest house for them....In JUST 3 Years in the league..


But he was not that...Somebody obviously missed the boat.

Makar was old for his draft year and went to UMass-Amherst and put up pretty meh numbers as a freshman, being 19 for almost his entire freshman year. People saw it - he went 4th overall - but he just reached a different gear in his second year of college.

 

[My3Sons]

To be fair their progression started when Landeskog was 24 and MacKinnon was almost 22.

We could very well be in that position five years from now with Jack, Nico and Luke.

This is like rebuild part two because we got nothing out of picks like Zacha, McLeod and Smith. Colorado also had their setbacks with Duchene and Jost.

NJ got Bratt in 2016 and if somebody wants to say that 2015 was a wasted season in retrospect that would make sense to me. I think the biggest problem for NJ in the past five years is not having a season with multiple guys hitting. If NJ got Bratt and McAvoy or Nico and whoever, or K'Andre Miller and Shara, it would look a bit better. It's hard to assemble a team one player at a time.

 

[JimEIV]

You might want to look at the draft years and ages of their top players. you're not making the point you think you are.

Landeskog 29 and drafted 2011
MacKinnon 26 and drafted 2013
Rantanen 25 and drafted 2015
Makar 23 2017 drafted 2017

It's been 9 years since MacKinnon was drafted first overall.

Actually I am... You are skipping straight to profit...Colorado hasn't sucked since the 2017 season....

Look at the assent it began in the 2018 season. It wasn't 9 year of drudgery toiling in the pigsty and then presto a cup....It was 3 bad years then 4 rising years to a cup in the 5th year.

2016-17 Out of Playoffs
2017-18 Lost in round 1 ---> Going Up!
2018-19 Lost in round 2
2019-20 Lost in round 3
2020-21 Lost in round 2
2021-22 Won Championship


There is ALWAYS a rising before real success and we haven't even got to the "Going Up Stage yet....8 freaking years later.

 

[glenwo2]

Not that hard he says!

Don't you mean "Not that hard she said"?