Prospect Info: Devils Picking 4th Overall, Part II

[StevenToddIves]

Beniers sounds very similar to Hischier. A good building block to have on any team. The Devils really have their work cut out for them because as the drat draws closer my choice for who to take at 4 has been changing a ton. It all depends on who gets selected before our pick but it just seems likely that we get Clarke or Hughes at 4. Either of the two is a win. Its that Islanders pick I keep forgetting about. Hopefully a players drops down their for us to snag. Would be great to get 2 defenseman and or a dman + goalie in the 1st round.

Stylistically, Beniers and Hischier are a do-able comparison. Technically, not so much -- but in order to support your well thought out argument, it's certainly feasible.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Reinhart and Risto is what he suggested.

Reinhart and Ristolainen for the 4th overall pick is a tremendous trade... for Buffalo.

Considering that Buffalo has lost pretty much every trade in the past half-decade, I just don't see it. Fitzgerald has done quite well with his trades thus far. I'd through this rumor out the window.

 

[StevenToddIves]

That’s great take.
The question is - how our prospect pool was lookin when we draft McLeod and how it looks now. How our roster pool was lookin and how it’s lookin now.
We drafted McLeod when we already know Gelinas isn’t good player. Moore was Moore with his good and bad sides of his game, Merril played exactly like Merril every year and Devils were exposed him year after and were very lucky, Helgeson and Scarlett were our best defensemen in Albany and Devils did try Seth on the big ice. He wasn’t impressive) Wecould say that in Zacha draft our defensive prospect pool was promising, not year after.
And Devils made trade back. There were a good chance to draft Chychrun or Mcavoy.

today we have an obvious picture that we have Bratt - top-6 player, and Kukka… middle-6 player. I think Bastian is great for the fourth liner. I would say Great. He is good positionaly, he is good forechecker and he makes good and smart simple decisions with the puck, he is very hard puckbattler. This is how fourth liner must to look like. And guys like that aren’t very often product. People who think we can easily find another one just forgot how long we were lack of guy like that. Who is tough, who can be competitive enough. And the most important thing - he has a chemistry. That’s most important thing in hockey. yes we must add rwinger here and now. But we have Holtz and Mercer who are very promising prospects. Much more promising than our defensive prospect. We have Clarke who was +/- one of the best on AHL ice. Even Thompson can turn into something if he will work on himself a lot.
I wrote before that development of young forward is a long way that never guarantee we can trade him for good defenseman after.

What we have with defense… funny question) Smith, whom I don’t wanna play against speedy aggressive skilled players. And Severson - our best defenseman who was never be a good nhl defenseman in protecting breakaways, zone playing and on the slot. Prospect pool? Bahl is big and strong in puck battles but he doesn’t understand where he should be. He can grow into 2nd pair great shot down guy, but he isn’t for now. Okhotyuk was lookin good in defensive game in ahl, but I can’t say he makes right decisions when the puck is on his stick. I would say I like Vukoevic too, but both didn’t produce much. Vukoevic had a good start but after he doesn’t have a lot of points. And we don’t know how they will play against real competitive players. Walsh? God, no. No. No. Butcher is breaking my heart all the time. Walsh is exactly like Butcher clone. Mukha is interesting, but he is raw and his weakness is play with the puck under pressure. We don’t know how he live with that on the short rink.

I really hope someone or a couple of someone’s will be Nhl defensemen. But we don’t have real signs of that. And it’s a freakin full line of players. In modern NHL teams with good defensive lines are much more successful than teams with good offensive line and bad defensive line.

And the most fun time for me. Dallas 2015. 2nd best scoring team. No playoff. Dallas 2020. 3rd worst scoring team, but second best GA. Stanley cup final. If we will remember offensive and defensive line of Stanley cup finalist Nashville, islanders success, etc. this is how modern hockey works. Team must have great defense to win, team must have great everything to try to win Cup. We svck at defense. If we want playoff and success, we Must draft defensemen, find them on the markets and trades. No matter how much pucks they score in COVID year. If Defenseman will be great in his work - he is what we need to have. If our scouts think that Edvinsson is a future top-4 D, no matter how much pucks he will score, we need him and he is what we must to draft. No matter how impactful Eklund or Guenther will be. Because we will never have top-4 defenseman in his prime if we will not draft him.

Btw if Fitz has an option to trade Zacha/Bratt/4th pick for young good defenseman I think he must to make it. But I don’t think this is gonna happen.

Haha, so good to have you back @Guadana !!

 

[StevenToddIves]

i am no talent evaluator. i lack in skills.
i just know playing defense is actually a skill and not just pure will and determination, which every player can learn.

This is actually something I've been trying to hammer home for years. The idea that you can take a player with no defensive acumen and turn him into a good defender is... well, simply ludicrous.

There are a ton of great NHL defenders who never scored in amateur and learned how to score at the NHL level -- from Chara to Giordano to Slavin. But has there even been one draft-eligible defenseman who was weak in his own zone as an amateur who became a top defender? I cannot think of any.

I'd say the correct answer is a great defensive defenseman might have some offensive upside you don't see because he is concentrating on preventing goals as a youngster more than producing them. But once a bad defender... well, maybe they'll get up to adequate, but they never become a very good defender at the NHL level.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Well Fitz apparently wants Risto so....

Sure... for Butcher and Johnsson. But if you give up anything of significant value for Ristolainen, it's just not a great trade.

 

[aboriginal]

Who wants to take a stab on which prospects they’re discussing?

I mean sure, whynot?

 

[RememberTheName]

Who wants to take a stab on which prospects they’re discussing?

In order, my guess is Pastujov, Olausson, Guenther, maybe Sillinger for the compete level comment but I’m not too sure.

 

[Hisch13r]

Maybe it’s cuz I always want moar finns here but taking a flier on risto would prob worth it. Could help the pp and an another offensive element from the back. And if it doesn’t work out, deal him at the deadline for something. Just get this f***ing kraken draft over with so we can go back to business.

You’re only getting some offense out of him on the PP. He provides nothing at 5v5

 

[Devils731]

Just to rile people up.

 

[Guadana]

I feel that Sanderson is actually a very good comparable for Edvinsson in that they are both left-shot defensemen who have big potential as physical, shut-down D. Both players have had a bit of variation with their draft-year rankings due to questions regarding their offensive potential.

However, I also feel this is an unfair comparison for Edvinsson. Sanderson was one of the younger players available for the 2020 draft, with a July 2002 birthday, while Edvinsson is also on the young side with a February 2003 birthdate. But Sanderson is just over a half year older, and in 2020 he was far and away the most polished defender available in the draft. Edvinsson is a bit of a project, still susceptible to turnovers and missed coverages which we rarely saw out of the amazingly steady Sanderson.

Edvinsson has three elite traits which are his calling cards -- he's an outstanding skater at 6'5, and he's a tremendous puck-handler. He's also quite physical and competitive. Though Sanderson is decidedly smaller at 6'1 and is not as accomplished a stickhandler as Edvinsson, I'd say these are the only traits which Edvinsson can claim over Sanderson.

Sanderson is a superior skater and superior defensive player, he's better positionally; a far better passer and shooter. I'd say Sanderson's offensive potential is far greater. In his draft year, he improved dramatically on the offensive side of the puck all year long and finished with 9 goals and 43 points in 66 games -- and yet faced constant criticism about his offense from numbers-watchers who really did not take the time to watch the fact that this is a player who does not take chances on offense unless his defensive chores are taken care of. Edvinsson finished his own draft-eligible season with 1 goal and 12 points in 38 games despite often taking extreme risks offensively -- and yet many of the same writers who dismissed Sanderson seem to constantly discuss Edvinsson's "huge offensive upside".

Last year, I ranked Jake Sanderson in my top 5 and I stand by that. I'd say he's right there right now with Bowen Byram and Jamie Drysdale in the conversation for top defense prospect in the NHL.

This year, I very much like Simon Edvinsson but I do not consider him a top 10 prospect in the draft. He simply has a lot of work to do defensively and it takes a ton of projection to assume a kid without high end traits in passing, shooting or hockey IQ will someday become a big point-producer at the NHL level. I'd compare Edvinsson more to a kid like Braden Schneider, whom I also really liked last year, but not as a top 10 pick. I think he's be a huge factor defensively with his size and speed combination juxtaposed with physicality and compete. But taking him at #4 overall would be a big stretch in my personal estimation, as he's not exactly air-tight defensively and suspect offensively.

First of all - Sanderson is the Батя. Ofcourse he is better. I would pick him 1OA on this draft.

About Edvinsson. I watched couple of his SHL games and all of his shift by shift videos. And I will talk about what I saw. He is pretty fast and good enough in puck battles and physical play. Not consistent, but this was SHL games. And what does make him much better than Schneider - he is much better skater and puck handler. Schneider is better puckmover. At first sight. But Edvinsson has great fast first steps. And he is big and good puck handler. This will make him great defensive defenseman. I dont know will he ever be good offensive defenseman. He is good puck handler and he is fast, but he has a lot to work on. If he will not, he will be great minute eater. He has a chance to be defenseman who will not produce much, less than Hughes and Clarke, but you know what? Will Butcher is 0.5 ppg player past year and it`s not something new for him. If Guenther or Eklund will be great wingers we have a big chance to never know that if we will pick them because we may have wingers and centers on the long term for the moment when they will be ready for NHL. If they even will be ready. But we have all chances to develope all kind of defenseman and give them roster spots because our defensive line is what it is. Even Walsh will have a shot. Even if he will not fix his game. And Walsh is a guy who must ever play in ahl, makes results but never play in NHL more than 4 games per season.
Is Eklund or Guenther has potential to produce 60+ points in NHL? Yes, they have. Do they have some kind of lacks? Yes.
Is Edvinsson has potential to play top-4 minutes? Yes he has. If he will not be great producer. his size, speed and stick skills will help him to be shotdown guy. Is it worth top-4 pick? I think yes ofcourse. Slavin deserved to be picked 4th. In his year Reinhart was pick 4th and he was Schneider type player as I remember. Big defenseman with below avarage skating. From WHL) Reilly was 5th pick. Oh we have a couple of Reilly type defensemen in top-5) You like Morgan Reilly defensive game? I`m not. Slavin is good skater and stick player. Slavin did produce better in draft year, but Edvinsson did produce pretty enough on junior level. He was 1st-2nd best D wherever he played in ppg from U17 D year ago. Past year his producing was down, but that was a COVID year, he played in defferent leagues with different partners. And he was best point producer in Allsvenskan from u18 defensemen. His lack of point producing is very overrated, he played in much better competition and he has great tools to be much better offensive defenseman. If he will not? Good enough tools to be great shotdown guy.

The most sad thing to me is we will not draft him if Hughes will be "on the table".

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[Devils731]

When initially reported it seemed like there was a range of damage that could have be done. This timeline of injury recovery sounds like it was on the lesser end? I’m just going off memory though.

 

[aboriginal]

You’re only getting some offense out of him on the PP. He provides nothing at 5v5

That’s why we traded for the big guns! Pk up in huuurrrrrr!!!

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Yes! Luke Hughes thinks I'm cool!

Reinhart and Ristolainen for the 4th overall pick is a tremendous trade... for Buffalo.

Considering that Buffalo has lost pretty much every trade in the past half-decade, I just don't see it. Fitzgerald has done quite well with his trades thus far. I'd through this rumor out the window.

I have a guess as to one trade of his you don't like

 

[Guadana]

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Stylistically, Beniers and Hischier are a do-able comparison. Technically, not so much -- but in order to support your well thought out argument, it's certainly feasible.

To be honest I havent seen Beniers play aside from World Juniors. Being a spot on Ppg player as a legit NCAA rookie is a good sign. Any normal draft year Beniers is more of a #3 or lower overall pick. Just see his upside being similar to Hischier. I think players like Clarke Power and Edvinsson have higher upsides. In terms of impact I think Eklund will have the same offensive impact as Beniers. Beniers gets the advantages in position his plays and having the better defensive game. Beniers will be a good one for sure. Beniers is going to the Kraken or Ducks.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[RememberTheName]

God damn it haha. 3 prospects, all 3 say it would be a dream come true to play with a certain person who plays on the Devils. What are the odds.

 

[MartyOwns]

it's almost like we should draft the best defenseman regardless of whos vagina they fell out of

 

[Emperoreddy]

God damn it haha. 3 prospects, all 3 say it would be a dream come true to play with a certain person who plays on the Devils. What are the odds.

And both older brothers talked up the Devils, which is odd because we are allegedly a rudderless cesspool of an organization

 

[Nico Hughes]

it's almost like we should draft the best defenseman regardless of whos vagina they fell out of

Problem is I doubt any team in the league has Clarke and Hughes so separated that they dont take other things, like brothers, into account

Drafting Clarke for the brother story is weak. Drafting Luke for the brother story is a legit marketing move; so theyre obviously not comparable from that perspective.

 

[Darkauron]

Anyone know when and if the NHL combine is happening this year? I guess not since players have already been talking to teams.

 

[Nico Hughes]

Just trade up and get Eklund Clarke and Hughes lol

Its unfortunate so many different connections to our team came in the same draft

However, when one of those three is the youngest eligible top-10 player whos 6'2" and skates like the wind while being brothers with your 1st overall offensive dynamo...

Yeah, it seems like the obvious play. And I wouldnt be surprised at all if Fitzgerald is keeping tabs with the three above us to make sure it can happen.

 

[MartyOwns]

Problem is I doubt any team in the league has Clarke and Hughes so separated that they dont take other things, like brothers, into account

Drafting Clarke for the brother story is weak. Drafting Luke for the brother story is a legit marketing move; so theyre obviously not comparable from that perspective.

if anything else is taken into account it should be which side they play, because our pool is stacked at one side vs the other

 

[Guadana]

Would be funny if Fitz will trade 4th pick for brother Boqvist)