Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings Prospect Thread 2017-18 I

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I don't know for a fact, but you're petty absolute in speaking about how bad he is.
Players like Marty Frk can put up 86 points in 56 games playing with Jonathan Drouin and Nathan MacKinnon so I don't really give a **** if he's 32 in ppg, he's leading his team in more ways than one and he's a pretty complete player in many facets of the game. Do I think he's a surefire slam dunk pick? No. But him not being a 2 ppg player doesn't concern me, because I didn't think that's what he was when we drafted him.

That's the point, though. Frk had Drouin and MacKinnon, and he put up crazy numbers. They did too. Rasmussen's linemates aren't putting up crazy numbers, and neither is he. Maybe he's not quite the offensive center we thought, at least not for a top 10 pick. I'm with you in that maybe he brings value in other ways. That's a completely legit reading.

But let's not play around here: this is not the level of offense we wanted from him this year. Being disappointed with his production so far is a reasonable reaction. It's not that he has to light up the league or something, but keeping up with prospects drafted in a similar position would be an appropriate expectation.

 

[Ezekial]

That's the point, though. Frk had Drouin and MacKinnon, and he put up crazy numbers. They did too. Rasmussen's linemates aren't putting up crazy numbers, and neither is he. Maybe he's not quite the offensive center we thought, at least not for a top 10 pick. I'm with you in that maybe he brings value in other ways. That's a completely legit reading.

But let's not play around here: this is not the level of offense we wanted from him this year. Being disappointed with his production so far is a reasonable reaction. It's not that he has to light up the league or something, but keeping up with prospects drafted in a similar position would be an appropriate expectation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the offensive player you thought he was a guy who can't score at even strength and inflated his numbers on the power play?

 

[Frk It]

Fair, but I think we would all gladly add a Ritchie, Domi or Perlini to our roster or Brown to our prospect system.

I looked at the data, and you're not exactly wrong.

Overall the bust probability is definitely higher for picks in the 6-15 range for the guys who do not make Canada in their +1 season as a whole... but that is largely due to defenseman, not forwards. If you just look at forwards, it is actually pretty even.

 

[Redder Winger]

Because you value points in juniors above all, as you display time and again in your comments. Rasmussen has a lot more to his game that go toward predicating a successful nhler.

So?
He still comes off looking a bit like a Rilley Sheahan/Martin Hanzal type player.

I'd love to know when the Red Wings stopped giving a f*** about skill. I bet it was sometime during the Babcock era, when Babcock was more worried about "heavy" than skill.

Skill was the hallmark of this this organization for years.
When everyone was hung up on the "Legion of Doom" we had the Russian 5.
When everyone was drafting 6'5 crosscheck you in the back defensemen, we were drafting Niklas Kronwall to the dismay of virtually everyone.

In 2002, when everyone was hung up on big physical forwards who banged their way around corners, we scored the #5, #6 and #14 scorers in the second and third round by drafting small and/or unphysical skill guys who could hang on to the puck and make plays.

The reason why were were able to continue after the decline of Yzerman and departure of Fedorov was because of a 5'10 Russian and 5'11 Swede.

Now we have a team that's afraid to draft sub-sixfooters early in the draft.

Since 2005, we've drafted the following sub-6'0 forwards in the top four rounds.
Cory Emmerton
Mattias Ritola
Gus Nyquist
Tomas Tatar
Calle Jarnkrok
Teemu Pulkkinen
Vili Saarjarvi

Considering where those guys were picked - that's a great job at the draft table.
Three bona-fide NHLers. Two are bonafide topsixers. One guy can play virtually anywhere.
Emmerton, Ritola and Pulkkinen all at least made the show.

All seven guys earned NHL contracts.

Show me another team that can point to the kind of success in some facet of their drafting. Nashville and defense maybe?

Maybe this franchise should remember where its strengths are.

Clearly, we can identify, smallish puck movers.

Take a look at the 2011 draft
The following sub-6'0 forwards were drafted in the first 4 rounds.
Kucherov.
Gaudreau.
Trocheck
Namestnikov.
Pageau.

Is anyone on Tampa Bay crying about having too many small skilled forwards the way Red Wings fans always cry about having too many Tatars and Nyquists?
Or they way they did when we had Flip and Hudler?

It's funny, because for all of the sizequeening Babock did, at the end of the day, when he jumped ship, the one thing I remember him saying is, "Who replaces Pav?"

 

[Ezekial]

I mean I think Riley Sheehan and Michael Rasmussen are different types of player and it does a disservice to you to say they're like players.

Riley Sheahan V2, maybe you'll get someone on that bandwagon. I think one of them has shown a much better ability to put the puck in the net at that point in their careers. I think you are just trying to add a sour taste to Rasmussen's name.

I agree with the rest of your post, but I'm sure they didn't stop giving a shit about skill, I'd like them to focus harder on it next draft to be sure.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the offensive player you thought he was a guy who can't score at even strength and inflated his numbers on the power play?

I'm using the royal "we". Weren't people comparing him to Getzlaf here not too long ago?

 

[Redder Winger]

I mean I think Riley Sheehan and Michael Rasmussen are different types of player and it does a disservice to you to say they're like players.

Riley Sheahan V2, maybe you'll get someone on that bandwagon. I think one of them has shown a much better ability to put the puck in the net at that point in their careers. I think you are just trying to add a sour taste to Rasmussen's name.

I agree with the rest of your post, but I'm sure they didn't stop giving a **** about skill, I'd like them to focus harder on it next draft to be sure.

Maybe. So Hanzal.
A very useful player.
But not a game changer. Not the guy you gameplan for.

As for the part aobut skill...
Something about Tyler Wright "focusing on grit" this year and "skill" next year.
Craziest thing I've read in a long time from an NHL executive.

 

[Ezekial]

I'm using the royal "we". Weren't people comparing him to Getzlaf here not too long ago?

We're going to be able to find outliers on either side. I don't see Getz clone but would love for him to become something of his archetype.

Time will tell on this pick, I just think with everything considered him not making the WJC camp isn't making or breaking his development and isn't an indictment of his overall ability.

Maybe. So Hanzal.
A very useful player.
But not a game changer. Not the guy you gameplan for.

As for the part aobut skill...
Something about Tyler Wright "focusing on grit" this year and "skill" next year.
Craziest thing I've read in a long time from an NHL executive.

Yea that's out there, I don't think you should ever take a preconceived approach like that to a draft. You should look at all of the players in front of you.

I think Hanzal is a good player to compare him to thus far and it's a shame he's dealt with all those injuries throughout his professional career. But as you said, he's not the focal point of a game plan, I think Ras can make life difficult for the team he's playing against - but I don't see him as a guy the opposing team is going to circle on their board and say THIS IS WHO WE HAVE TO STOP. That being said I also think he's got some upside to his game that could really come to fruition as he gets a little older (23-24).
He can play up to the skill level of some good players he's played with and compliment them really well, but realistically I don't see him driving a top 6 NHL line on his own.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Maybe. So Hanzal.
A very useful player.
But not a game changer. Not the guy you gameplan for.

As for the part aobut skill...
Something about Tyler Wright "focusing on grit" this year and "skill" next year.
Craziest thing I've read in a long time from an NHL executive.

I don’t remember him saying they focused on grit. He did talk about what was available and perhaps going for bigger gambles next year. Imo there was no exciting, projected gamebreaker available at #9. It’s not like we went with Ras over Hischier or Pettersson.
Just last year we went with smaller, physically immature guys like Cholo and Hronek instead of Chychrun who has size and grit. That was also criticized. There might be an element of ”damned if you do, damned if you don’t” going on.

 

[Redder Winger]

Guys like Vilardi, Necas, Liljgren, Thomas, Chytil, Suzuki...
There was a lot of good skill Detroit passed up on.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Guys like Vilardi, Necas, Liljgren, Thomas, Chytil, Suzuki...
There was a lot of good skill Detroit passed up on.

Rasmussen also has good skill. None of those guys are more than longshots to be a #1C or top-pairing D. That’s not to say we made the right call but I think it needs to said that Rasmussen is not some unskilled brute that was drafted ahead of a bunch of Datsyuks and Karlssons.

 

[lidstromiscool]

I think people are too quick to forget Ras's pre season. Kid looked great out there never mind the fact that he was just 18. I know, sample size, but it's still pretty intriguing.

 

[Frk It]

Rasmussen also has good skill. None of those guys are more than longshots to be a #1C or top-pairing D. That’s not to say we made the right call but I think it needs to said that Rasmussen is not some unskilled brute that was drafted ahead of a bunch of Datsyuks and Karlssons.

He does, a lot of those other guys have better puck skills though. Which is the most obvious thing people look at, typically.

That said, I remember Larkin being called out by Pronman early on for not having plus hands. Even now, Larkin doesn't really score many highlight reel goals, or make plays that bring you out of your seat. But he is still a very effective player that competes really hard and uses his physical gift (speed) to make plays all over the ice.

I guess the hope would be similar with Rasmussen. That he will use his massive size, compete really hard, protect the puck, and drive to the net or suck defenders in and unload to someone else.

As Wings fans, I think everyone is used to having different style pivots, given that we had Dats and Z for so long. Personally I do hope we mix in at least 1 other playmaking/puck skill center in the next draft or two with one of our top picks to add to the group. Then I think we could have a really nice 1-2-3 center combo for a long time, potentially.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Jordan Sambrook is doing pretty well again this year. 6 + 14 in 29 games. I hope we get him signed. Seeing Saarijarvi getting limited opportunities might make him hesitant to sign with us.

Patrick Holway is another RHD we might try and get signed, but he can be left in college another year.

Something has to give with the RHD going into the AHL next year. I doubt they go with all young guys at RD.

 

[Ezekial]

Jordan Sambrook is doing pretty well again this year. 6 + 14 in 29 games. I hope we get him signed. Seeing Saarijarvi getting limited opportunities might make him hesitant to sign with us.

Patrick Holway is another RHD we might try and get signed, but he can be left in college another year.

Something has to give with the RHD going into the AHL next year. I doubt they go with all young guys at RD.

Vili has already signed his ELC, so he has 3 more seasons until he's an RFA the first time and 7 years until he's no longer our property.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Vili has already signed his ELC, so he has 3 more seasons until he's an RFA the first time and 7 years until he's no longer our property.

I was referring to Sambrook

 

[Ezekial]

I was referring to Sambrook

Ah my mistake, carry on. I like Sambrook too, hope we can accommodate him.

 

[SirloinUB]

He does, a lot of those other guys have better puck skills though. Which is the most obvious thing people look at, typically.

That said, I remember Larkin being called out by Pronman early on for not having plus hands. Even now, Larkin doesn't really score many highlight reel goals, or make plays that bring you out of your seat. But he is still a very effective player that competes really hard and uses his physical gift (speed) to make plays all over the ice.

I guess the hope would be similar with Rasmussen. That he will use his massive size, compete really hard, protect the puck, and drive to the net or suck defenders in and unload to someone else.

As Wings fans, I think everyone is used to having different style pivots, given that we had Dats and Z for so long. Personally I do hope we mix in at least 1 other playmaking/puck skill center in the next draft or two with one of our top picks to add to the group. Then I think we could have a really nice 1-2-3 center combo for a long time, potentially.

One thing that has always stood out in my viewings of Rasmussen is his puck skills. You don't see a bunch of dangling like Datsyuk, Kane, Gaudreau, McDavid, but Rasmussen excels with Hand Eye, a strong ability to control bouncing pucks, winning puck battles down low etc.. He isn't flashy but he does have some effective mitts.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He does, a lot of those other guys have better puck skills though. Which is the most obvious thing people look at, typically.

That said, I remember Larkin being called out by Pronman early on for not having plus hands. Even now, Larkin doesn't really score many highlight reel goals, or make plays that bring you out of your seat. But he is still a very effective player that competes really hard and uses his physical gift (speed) to make plays all over the ice.

I guess the hope would be similar with Rasmussen. That he will use his massive size, compete really hard, protect the puck, and drive to the net or suck defenders in and unload to someone else.

As Wings fans, I think everyone is used to having different style pivots, given that we had Dats and Z for so long. Personally I do hope we mix in at least 1 other playmaking/puck skill center in the next draft or two with one of our top picks to add to the group. Then I think we could have a really nice 1-2-3 center combo for a long time, potentially.

I would have been furious if Pettersson was available and we took Ras instead. I just don't see the big deal with Vilardi/Necas/others though. Even if they have slightly better "puck skills", it doesn't do a whole lot for our team unless they're actually skilled enough to be a #1C. As with all draft picks we need to let a lot more time pass before we know if we did the right thing or not. I mean Vilardi hasn't even played a game post-draft yet and he was the guy most wanted. And Tippett who was drafted just after Ras wasn't selected for the WJC team either.

 

[TheMule93]

 

[ChadS]

Off-topic, but Miro Heiskanen mentioned in a recent interview that the Red Wings were very interested in him (specifically mentioned only them). Wasn't there some talk about the Wings trying to move up in the draft?

 

[drwings40]

Off-topic, but Miro Heiskanen mentioned in a recent interview that the Red Wings were very interested in him (specifically mentioned only them). Wasn't there some talk about the Wings trying to move up in the draft?

Yep, there was.

 

[GrGriffins]

Zack Nastasiuk called up this afternoon from Toledo to GR. Elson not playing tonight (undisclosed injury/illness). Coreau in net tonight vs Rockford. Start of 3 games in 3 nights (Sat in Rockford, Sun in Iowa).

 

[Redder Winger]

Zack Nastasiuk called up this afternoon from Toledo to GR. Elson not playing tonight (undisclosed injury/illness). Coreau in net tonight vs Rockford. Start of 3 games in 3 nights (Sat in Rockford, Sun in Iowa).

Boy, Nastasiuk looked so darn good with the Griffs in that late season callup a couple years ago after his OHL team was eliminated.
And then he got hit. And that was it. Never the same guy.

 

[lomekian]

True.
But of all the guys who ranked in the top 10, none of them were questioned as much as Rasmussen.

And yet almost every single scouting report (from the 15 or so I read) had him top 10.

Sexiest pick? No. Best available? Time will tell, possibly not. A huge reach? No. Its not like when NYR picked McIlrath.

Prospect universally predicted to go top ten being picked 9th is hardly a shocker....