Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings Prospect Thread 2017-18 I

[lomekian]

Is it? The best of a bad lot is still bad.

Its almost as if its being suggested that a player's performance might potentially be affected by his team-mates! What an outlandish suggestion!

Seriously, that team is him, Valimaki, at a push Geekie, and load of guys who would be lucky to make the rosters of 2/3 of the WHL.

We know he's not a superstar who can drag his team forward on his shoulders, but his team is bad. And barely scores.

 

[lomekian]

Boy, Nastasiuk looked so darn good with the Griffs in that late season callup a couple years ago after his OHL team was eliminated.
And then he got hit. And that was it. Never the same guy.

Pretty much. Was never going to be a big scorer, but his pro career has been a massive disappointment.

 

[lomekian]

I mean I think Riley Sheehan and Michael Rasmussen are different types of player and it does a disservice to you to say they're like players.

Riley Sheahan V2, maybe you'll get someone on that bandwagon. I think one of them has shown a much better ability to put the puck in the net at that point in their careers. I think you are just trying to add a sour taste to Rasmussen's name.

I agree with the rest of your post, but I'm sure they didn't stop giving a **** about skill, I'd like them to focus harder on it next draft to be sure.

Which they have already said they will. Fingers crossed they were telling the truth. Like they did about drafting more size, and then they did about picking more D later on.

As for any comparison between Sheahan and Rasmussen - what utter rubbish.
Sheahan is a guy who never uses his size, and despite having a good shot and decent passing only showed offensive instincts for about 2 6 month bursts in his career. We all know that college hockey is a lot harder to score in than the CHL, but Ramussen already has more than twice as many goals in the WHL as Riley had in college in approx 0.55 of the games played. He was our top scorer in preseason and is a brilliant net front player (quite the comparison with Sheahan despite Riley being stuck there repeatedly). He may yet turn out to be only as good as Sheahan, but bar being big centers they are TOTALLY DIFFERENT players.

 

[lomekian]

He does, a lot of those other guys have better puck skills though. Which is the most obvious thing people look at, typically.

That said, I remember Larkin being called out by Pronman early on for not having plus hands. Even now, Larkin doesn't really score many highlight reel goals, or make plays that bring you out of your seat. But he is still a very effective player that competes really hard and uses his physical gift (speed) to make plays all over the ice.

I guess the hope would be similar with Rasmussen. That he will use his massive size, compete really hard, protect the puck, and drive to the net or suck defenders in and unload to someone else.

As Wings fans, I think everyone is used to having different style pivots, given that we had Dats and Z for so long. Personally I do hope we mix in at least 1 other playmaking/puck skill center in the next draft or two with one of our top picks to add to the group. Then I think we could have a really nice 1-2-3 center combo for a long time, potentially.

Totally agree. 2019 looks the draft for skilled centers, and I want us to prioritise D in 2018, unless we get the #2 and have a shot at Svech the younger. Hopefully selling Green & maybe Nike will get us another 1st or two, so we can have more shots at D-men or skilled wingers, depending on who we take with our pick.

 

[lomekian]

Jordan Sambrook is doing pretty well again this year. 6 + 14 in 29 games. I hope we get him signed. Seeing Saarijarvi getting limited opportunities might make him hesitant to sign with us.

Patrick Holway is another RHD we might try and get signed, but he can be left in college another year.

Something has to give with the RHD going into the AHL next year. I doubt they go with all young guys at RD.

With the likelihood that Green is going to be traded, the RHD will likely all bump up one, with Hronek likely seeing some time...

But yeah, Sambrook looks good for a 5th rounder, for sure.

 

[Redder Winger]

Which they have already said they will. Fingers crossed they were telling the truth. Like they did about drafting more size, and then they did about picking more D later on.

As for any comparison between Sheahan and Rasmussen - what utter rubbish.
Sheahan is a guy who never uses his size, and despite having a good shot and decent passing only showed offensive instincts for about 2 6 month bursts in his career. We all know that college hockey is a lot harder to score in than the CHL, but Ramussen already has more than twice as many goals in the WHL as Riley had in college in approx 0.55 of the games played. He was our top scorer in preseason and is a brilliant net front player (quite the comparison with Sheahan despite Riley being stuck there repeatedly). He may yet turn out to be only as good as Sheahan, but bar being big centers they are TOTALLY DIFFERENT players.

First of all, Sheahan is actually an NHLer.
And there are a lot of similarities.
Big, defensively responsible centers without much flash in their game. Rasmussen might have more push to the net, but he's not a bruiser either.

Secondly, Sheahan started his career with 9 goals and 15 assists in half a season.
He followed that up with 13-23-36 and then 14-11-25 before completely falling apart last year.

For whatever reason, the offensive ability he showed his first two years disappeared.

 

[Winger98]

First of all, Sheahan is actually an NHLer.
And there are a lot of similarities.
Big, defensively responsible centers without much flash in their game. Rasmussen might have more push to the net, but he's not a bruiser either.

Secondly, Sheahan started his career with 9 goals and 15 assists in half a season.
He followed that up with 13-23-36 and then 14-11-25 before completely falling apart last year.

For whatever reason, the offensive ability he showed his first two years disappeared.

Well, the offensive ability also never showed up before that, either. There was concern about his lack of production at Notre Dame but it was written off at least partially to the system there. He then wasn't a huge producer at GR. When he stepped in and put up 60 points in his first 120 or so games, I think it surprised a number of folks.

 

[SimplySolace]

 

[lomekian]

First of all, Sheahan is actually an NHLer.
And there are a lot of similarities.
Big, defensively responsible centers without much flash in their game. Rasmussen might have more push to the net, but he's not a bruiser either.

Secondly, Sheahan started his career with 9 goals and 15 assists in half a season.
He followed that up with 13-23-36 and then 14-11-25 before completely falling apart last year.

For whatever reason, the offensive ability he showed his first two years disappeared.

But as I just outlined in my post, they have an entirely different point scoring distribution, and Rasmussen is a genuine power play specialist, not to mention was on pace for 50 goals last year before breaking his wrist.

Rasmussen showed enough in exhibition games that his skillset will allow him to get goals at the NHL level in a way that Sheahan never did. That and the fact that goalscoring and offensive play was seen as major issue for Sheahan for years.

The biggest difference is, that despite as you say not being a bruiser, Rasmussen consistently uses his size to get to the front of the net and score from dirty areas. Sheahan very very rarely did that, despite being capable. It's a mindset thing.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Holway with another three point night including a PP goal. The kid is certainly commanding some attention this year with his production. I haven't watched him and cannot comment on his actual play but 11 points in 12 games is encouraging.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Well, the offensive ability also never showed up before that, either. There was concern about his lack of production at Notre Dame but it was written off at least partially to the system there. He then wasn't a huge producer at GR. When he stepped in and put up 60 points in his first 120 or so games, I think it surprised a number of folks.

Hilariously enough, his 60 points in 120 games was slightly better than Kuznetsov’s firsg 120, who many, including me, were mad we passed on. I ate crow too early lol

 

[waltdetroit]

The guys at The Hockey News Podcast gave their take on why Rasmussen didn't make the CN Jr team/ They say the team took a PK specialist & an energy guy over him. They also talk good things about Fulcher.

You only need to listen to the 1st 13 minutes

The Hockey News Podcast (podcast)

 

[Dotter]

Where did this Rasmussen and Sheahan similarities garble come from? Size? Ram is bigger and probably already stronger in the corners. They are as similar as John Scott is to Tavaras... (not saying Ram is Tavaras)

Dominic Turgeon is most similar to Sheahan than anyone else in the pool now that Nosek is gone. Sheahan has never been a goal scorer. He was used as a defensive shut-down center in Notre Dame. I think 3 goal Sheahan is the player he truly is.

Ram is a power forward.

 

[Winger98]

Hilariously enough, his 60 points in 120 games was slightly better than Kuznetsov’s firsg 120, who many, including me, were mad we passed on. I ate crow too early lol

that's what you get for ever admitting you were wrong on the interwebs.

 

[Redder Winger]

Well, the offensive ability also never showed up before that, either. There was concern about his lack of production at Notre Dame but it was written off at least partially to the system there. He then wasn't a huge producer at GR. When he stepped in and put up 60 points in his first 120 or so games, I think it surprised a number of folks.

Look, I hated the Sheahan pick and thought he was pretty pedestrian.
But in 13-14 he looked good in Detroit.
42 games 9-15-24.
That's a nice season.

That year in GR he went 8-10-18 in 31 games - showing improvement on his 16-20-36 AHL rookie season.

For whatever reason, Sheahan was never able to duplicate that 18-30-48 pace of his rookie year.
Then again, Jurco never produced his pace from that year.
And both those guys were helped by Tatar, who was really good that year.

It's interesting to see him back on that 12-22-34 pace in Pittsburgh.

 

[Redder Winger]

But as I just outlined in my post, they have an entirely different point scoring distribution, and Rasmussen is a genuine power play specialist, not to mention was on pace for 50 goals last year before breaking his wrist.

Rasmussen showed enough in exhibition games that his skillset will allow him to get goals at the NHL level in a way that Sheahan never did. That and the fact that goalscoring and offensive play was seen as major issue for Sheahan for years.

The biggest difference is, that despite as you say not being a bruiser, Rasmussen consistently uses his size to get to the front of the net and score from dirty areas. Sheahan very very rarely did that, despite being capable. It's a mindset thing.

He's a 6'5 PP specialist in the WHL.
When he does something in the AHL I'll be a lot more impressed.

And give me a break. Sheahan has shown plenty of ability in the NHL - an not just in the "pre-season."

 

[Ezekial]

It's not about NHL ability, Sheahan didn't display anything Rasmussen has shown as far as goal scoring ability, he scored 18 goals as a 16 year old in the WHL.

They aren't like prospects as far as their development and they don't even play the same game as big bodied forwards. Riley Sheahan is a terrible comparison.

Riley Sheahan came out of nowhere as a 22-23 year old besting his goal totals in the NHL compared to his developmental leagues.

 

[lomekian]

Look, I hated the Sheahan pick and thought he was pretty pedestrian.
But in 13-14 he looked good in Detroit.
42 games 9-15-24.
That's a nice season.

That year in GR he went 8-10-18 in 31 games - showing improvement on his 16-20-36 AHL rookie season.

For whatever reason, Sheahan was never able to duplicate that 18-30-48 pace of his rookie year.
Then again, Jurco never produced his pace from that year.
And both those guys were helped by Tatar, who was really good that year.

It's interesting to see him back on that 12-22-34 pace in Pittsburgh.

Not having poor linemates and an awful coach and not being stuck in system that actively works against your strengths helps.

I don't think Sheahan is a big loss, and with the way things were working out here, I was happy with the trade, but I reckon almost every player on the roster would do better on a better team and with a better coach.

 

[newfy]

He's a 6'5 PP specialist in the WHL.
When he does something in the AHL I'll be a lot more impressed.

And give me a break. Sheahan has shown plenty of ability in the NHL - an not just in the "pre-season."

Do you actually believe this crap? A 6'5 PP specialist? I'm sure you whined about the Larkin pick too because he didnt have enough high end skill and was just another Helm. And you probably whined about Mantha while you were at it. A 6'5 floater who doesnt try hard enough.

Hearing people cry about the Rasmussen pick on here is getting so annoying. There is literally noone drafted around him that has absolutely blown it out of the water and hes having a very solid (although injured) draft plus 1 year. I'm sure 90% of you have read a few scouting reports and thats about the extent of you knowledge on his game. Say what you want about Holland,but he always drafted forwards well, give Rasmussen some time

 

[lomekian]

He's a 6'5 PP specialist in the WHL.
When he does something in the AHL I'll be a lot more impressed.

And give me a break. Sheahan has shown plenty of ability in the NHL - an not just in the "pre-season."

And if you were paying attention in my earlier post that you responded to, I did say that Rasmussen may not ever be better than Sheahan. My point, determined as you are to miss it despite me explaining it explicitly several times, is that despite both being big centres, they are very different players. Indeed, by saying that Rasmussen is a PP specialist, you are almost making my point for me - Sheahan was never a PP specialist or a consistent and primary goalscorer - unless you count him being a 15 year old in the SCTAMM, whatever the hell that league is.

Hell, I apologise if it got your goat that I agreed someone who disagreed with you, but if you are going to pull 'give me a break', at least have the courtesy to read what I've written, and respond to that, rather than whatever your indignation imagined I said.

For the record, when he was playing at his best Sheahan was better defensively and as good a passer as Rasmussen currently projects to be. But just by looking at usage and point distribution, Ramsussen definitely projects to be more of a goalscorer and offensively minded player. I never said Sheahan didn't have offensive talent...I said he didn't have the mindset to maximise that talent. He was always responsibility first, and over the last two seasons his offensive confidence and instincts totally deserted him.

It looks like he's starting to rebound on a good team with a good coach and some talented linemates. Good for him. I always liked Sheahan and wanted him to succeed as a willingness to sacrifice for your linemates is something to be applauded, and he seems like a decent guy. But his time here turned poisonous for him. As, to varying degrees, it has for most of the roster Blash inherited.

 

[Redder Winger]

He does, a lot of those other guys have better puck skills though. Which is the most obvious thing people look at, typically.

That said, I remember Larkin being called out by Pronman early on for not having plus hands. Even now, Larkin doesn't really score many highlight reel goals, or make plays that bring you out of your seat. But he is still a very effective player that competes really hard and uses his physical gift (speed) to make plays all over the ice.

I guess the hope would be similar with Rasmussen. That he will use his massive size, compete really hard, protect the puck, and drive to the net or suck defenders in and unload to someone else.

As Wings fans, I think everyone is used to having different style pivots, given that we had Dats and Z for so long. Personally I do hope we mix in at least 1 other playmaking/puck skill center in the next draft or two with one of our top picks to add to the group. Then I think we could have a really nice 1-2-3 center combo for a long time, potentially.

Every team has "effective players."
Effective players are important.
But teams that win championships have elite level talent.
Drafting 9 overall, with Vilardi falling from 3 to 5 (by most projections), I was pretty pissed didn't take our shot.
I also saw Liljegren as the potential elite puckmoving defenseman we really need.

 

[Redder Winger]

Do you actually believe this crap? A 6'5 PP specialist? I'm sure you whined about the Larkin pick too because he didnt have enough high end skill and was just another Helm. And you probably whined about Mantha while you were at it. A 6'5 floater who doesnt try hard enough.

Hearing people cry about the Rasmussen pick on here is getting so annoying. There is literally noone drafted around him that has absolutely blown it out of the water and hes having a very solid (although injured) draft plus 1 year. I'm sure 90% of you have read a few scouting reports and thats about the extent of you knowledge on his game. Say what you want about Holland,but he always drafted forwards well, give Rasmussen some time

I liked the Larkin pick because "Helm with hands" and "center" sounded good to me.

Secondly, Holland's record with North American forwards is pretty spotty.

And say what you what about Holland, but his WHL record isn't so f***ing hot.

Legit NHLers
Helm

Minor NHL careers
Meech

Still has time
Dom Turgeon - Looks like a 4th liner at best


Busts
Wheaton
McNulty
Tvrdon
Nedomlel
Macek
Ferraro
Callahan
May
Stamler
Covington
Koopmans
Pannoni
Hobday
Goetzinger
Pietilainen

Since 1998
19 picks
1 NHLer - Darren Helm
1 borderline guy - Meech

Now we've got a couple more prospects in Rasmussen and Zablocki.

 

[Claypool]

Every team has "effective players."
Effective players are important.
But teams that win championships have elite level talent.
Drafting 9 overall, with Vilardi falling from 3 to 5 (by most projections), I was pretty pissed didn't take our shot.
I also saw Liljegren as the potential elite puckmoving defenseman we really need.

You’re lucky to get elite-level talent outside of the top 3 picks most draft years. If either of those players you mentioned had high potential to be elite NHL players they would have gone much higher in the draft. Any argument otherwise is just hating for the sake of hating.

 

[Ezekial]

Rasmussen with 2 goals tonight, yes both on the PP. He has 2 points in each of his last 3 games since coming back from injury: 5G 1A

Cholowski with an assist tonight.

 

[Redder Winger]

You’re lucky to get elite-level talent outside of the top 3 picks most draft years. If either of those players you mentioned had high potential to be elite NHL players they would have gone much higher in the draft. Any argument otherwise is just hating for the sake of hating.

"Agree with me or you're a hater."

I think you're wrong.
I had several guys ahead of Rasmussen.
Robert Thomas (guy has Datsyuk like tendencies that I really enjoy)
Kim Klostin.
Martin Necas.
Timothy Liljegren. (Mono knocked him out of the top 3)
Gabe Vilardi - A top 3-5 talent who fell on draft day.

Based on scouting reports and video, I had all those guys WAY ahead of Rasmussen.
Rasmussen, respite the high rankings, was getting all kinds of negative attention.

He was literally the ONLY top 25-type center I didn't want at 9.
So it's not like the Red Wings picked the guy and I decided to hate him.
Read the pre-draft threads here on HF to see what I'm talking about.

As for your point about no elite talents outside the top 3.
Zach Werenski - 8
Ivan Provorov - 7
Brock Boeser -23
Matthew Barzal - 16
Pastrnak -25
Nylander - 8
Monahan - 6
Forsberg - 11
Kucherov - 58
Scheifele - 7
Gaurdreau - 104
and on and on and on