Confirmed Trade: [DET/OTT] Alex DeBrincat (signs 4 years, $7.875M AAV) for Dominik Kubalik, Donovan Sebrango, cond. 2024 or 2025 1st (DET or BOS), 2024 4th

[Golden_Jet]

RFA yes, ELC I would advocate for changes.

Zero reason why Bedard should have such a small salary for 3 years

Well that’s an uninformed opinion, never heard of performance bonuses on ELC.

 

[kranuck]

Well that’s an uninformed opinion, never heard of performance bonuses on ELC.

If he was free to sign where he wanted he would be making far more than a bonus laden ELC. Millions more in guaranteed money.

 

[norrisnick]

I don't think we are going to agree on this. I do not believe they are similar at all taking into account how soccer leagues are structured and the depth of talent available given the global appeal of soccer.

It's not just soccer. Most euro hockey leagues are run that way as well with no draft or restricted status.

 

[kranuck]

I don't think we are going to agree on this. I do not believe they are similar at all taking into account how soccer leagues are structured and the depth of talent available given the global appeal of soccer.

Maybe the teams having to actually pay for talent would incentivize them to work on growing the game at every level instead of letting it turn into exclusively a rich kid sport.

 

[theVladiator]

He's shooting 44%

Are we supposed to believe that he won't take home both Ross and Richard this year?! And we gave up Kubalik for THIS?

To be fair, I myself had doubts about the acquisition. But, I am glad to sit back now and just laugh out loud seeing the Cat at the top of the scoring leaderboards. Even IF doesn't win those trophies in the end.

 

[Kranix]

Are we supposed to believe that he won't take home both Ross and Richard this year?! And we gave up Kubalik for THIS?

To be fair, I myself had doubts about the acquisition. But, I am glad to sit back now and just laugh out loud seeing the Cat at the top of the scoring leaderboards. Even IF doesn't win those trophies in the end.

It was an excellent trade for the Red Wings

 

[Mattilaus]

Maybe the teams having to actually pay for talent would incentivize them to work on growing the game at every level instead of letting it turn into exclusively a rich kid sport.

I do not understand how this comment is relevant to the topic at hand or to what I said.

 

[kranuck]

I do not understand how this comment is relevant to the topic at hand or to what I said.

One of the better ways to get talent is to get kids playing and interested in your team vs now where they just hold talent hostage for 7+ years.

 

[Mattilaus]

One of the better ways to get talent is to get kids playing and interested in your team vs now where they just hold talent hostage for 7+ years.

Ahh, thank you for the clarification. I agree, the league can be doing more when it comes to outreach. However, I don't think changing the way players enter the league will lead to that. The amount spent on players is based on league revenue. If anything, allowing the young good players to all flock to a handful of teams would lower league revenue as teams which are bad would now have no reason for anyone to watch them. Currently the only incentive to watch the bad teams is to see the young stars they have drafted. Without that draw they would produce even less revenue and perhaps end up folding. This doesn't create more money to spend on outreach imo.

 

[kranuck]

Ahh, thank you for the clarification. I agree, the league can be doing more when it comes to outreach. However, I don't think changing the way players enter the league will lead to that. The amount spent on players is based on league revenue. If anything, allowing the young good players to all flock to a handful of teams would lower league revenue as teams which are bad would now have no reason for anyone to watch them. Currently the only incentive to watch the bad teams is to see the young stars they have drafted. Without that draw they would produce even less revenue and perhaps end up folding. This doesn't create more money to spend on outreach imo.

I gave an example of an idea on how to prevent that without restricting the players. Restrict the teams instead.

 

[Mattilaus]

I gave an example of an idea on how to prevent that without restricting the players. Restrict the teams instead.

Yes I saw the solution, being limiting teams to signing tiers of prospects. The problem then becomes who defines the best prospect or where the tiers are laid out if there is no draft? For example, say one team has a prospect rated as the 3rd best prospect in a given year, another team has them rated as 13th, which tier do they fall under? Does the team rating then 3rd get to sign them on a lower tier because someone else had them rated 13th? Or does the 13th not get to sign them because someone else had them rated 3rd and they already used that slot?

I know it's not the idea itself that is important here and it's more about the theory, but I don't feel like this fixes anything other than making it harder for bad teams to get better and it most certainly wouldn't increase HRR imo.

 

[TS Quint]

RFA yes, ELC I would advocate for changes.

Zero reason why Bedard should have such a small salary for 3 years

Bedard can make his bonuses.

You know what players don't want? One shot wonders eating away salary cap from established players.

To the owners the cap is the cap. Divide it anyway you like it's costs the same.

 

[kranuck]

Bedard can make his bonuses.

Not enough.

 

[TS Quint]

Not enough.

I can see a better bonus structure.

Sorry also edited more Of the last post.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

There are numerous ways to restrict the teams from signing all the talent without restricting the players.

The draft is an anti-player abomination that shouldn't exist. I also think the emphasis on tanking for picks is awful for the sport.

What does this have to do with DeBrincat?

 

[kranuck]

Yes I saw the solution, being limiting teams to signing tiers of prospects. The problem then becomes who defines the best prospect or where the tiers are laid out if there is no draft? For example, say one team has a prospect rated as the 3rd best prospect in a given year, another team has them rated as 13th, which tier do they fall under? Does the team rating then 3rd get to sign them on a lower tier because someone else had them rated 13th? Or does the 13th not get to sign them because someone else had them rated 3rd and they already used that slot?

I know it's not the idea itself that is important here and it's more about the theory, but I don't feel like this fixes anything other than making it harder for bad teams to get better and it most certainly wouldn't increase HRR imo.

It's based on pay, not some arbitrary ranking system.

Entirely arbitrary numbers, but here is an example

5M+ slot, 1 ELC.
4-5M slot, 2 ELC
3-4M slot, 2 ELC
1-3M slot, 5 ELC
<1M slot, unlimited

So now say you want the best guy turning 18. He's amazing. Problem is everyone wants him. Bidding war. You offer 4.5, becasue that's the slot you have free. "less desirable" team has their 5+ slot open and offer him 5.5 a year. You can't match because you spent your 5M+ slot 2 years ago and you can't do it again until that 3 year deal expires.

So you can either try and convince the player that the experience of playing for you is a million better, or you can trade a signing from 2years ago (assuming they don't have an NTC/NMC), or you can lose the player.

Of course some teams will have advantages, but that's the case with any free agency situation.

The big thing here is players aren't subject to ridiculous restrictions on their labour AND tanking is now a terrible non-starter option. Teams can't tank their way to an absurdly under-paid roster because it will make it really really hard to attract talent. Rebuilds become about timing your cap space and letting the roster cook for a bit until you have slots open to make a big play.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

In a capped league you can’t have a handful of teams signing everyone, plus the lack of roster spots.

There are also ways to restrict who teams can sign vs players.

For example ine system could be that ELCs are designed in tiers. Each tier is based on cap hit. Still 3 years (yes it’s a restriction on players but a pretty minor one).

Teams get a limited number of slots in each tier. Higher tier slots are much rarer.

So maybe the rangers and leafs get an advantage when they want a particular player, but they have to be strategic about when they actually do it. They can’t just sign the top 10 prospects from a draft, or even the top 2. Or even the top prospect multiple years in a row. Not unless those players are willing to take a discount.

Looking for a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[kranuck]

Looking for a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

Just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I see what you think the problem is. But that's not how collectively bargained agreements work. Good luck getting such a thing through the NHLPA. There are far more veteran players in the pool than rookies and this would necessitate curtailing their earning power. Good luck getting them to vote for this if the cap still exists.

Teams have already started extending these guys to the mega contracts ASAP. Tim Stutzle is already up to 8M per year. Bedard will have two years of an ELC with bonuses and then extend at 10M+.

Seriously, this isn't a problem. If a guy really has a problem where he's at and he's that good, he can pull an Adam Fox.

 

[kranuck]

I see what you think the problem is. But that's not how collectively bargained agreements work. Good luck getting such a thing through the NHLPA. There are far more veteran players in the pool than rookies and this would necessitate curtailing their earning power. Good luck getting them to vote for this if the cap still exists.

Teams have already started extending these guys to the mega contracts ASAP. Tim Stutzle is already up to 8M per year. Bedard will have two years of an ELC with bonuses and then extend at 10M+.

Seriously, this isn't a problem. If a guy really has a problem where he's at and he's that good, he can pull an Adam Fox.

Yeah, it's a shame that sports leagues got to weasel out of their obviously illegal activities because of the PA.

 

[ClydeLee]

Yeah, it's a shame that sports leagues got to weasel out of their obviously illegal activities because of the PA.

Your pushing for hurting the potential earing of thr majority of players, especially the ones already battered and broken by playing on the league and started in the under 1 mil banner.

You think it's a shame the Players association looks out for those players?

 

[kranuck]

Your pushing for hurting the potential earing of thr majority of players, especially the ones already battered and broken by playing on the league and started in the under 1 mil banner.

You think it's a shame the Players association looks out for those players?

I think it's a shame things like the legality of the draft weren't decided in court. Would be a much better league now if the entire farce was just ruled illegal.

 

[MS]

Just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Nobody cares that Connor Bedard has to wait until he's 21 until he signs a $100 million contract. It's not a problem.

People will damn well care if the NHL in Canada is basically destroyed by what you're proposing.

 

[kranuck]

Nobody cares that Connor Bedard has to wait until he's 21 until he signs a $100 million contract. It's not a problem.

People will damn well care if the NHL in Canada is basically destroyed by what you're proposing.

It wouldn't be, but continuue shilling for an anti-player pro billionaire system because you have been conditioned to think it's fair.

 

[MS]

It wouldn't be, but continuue shilling for an anti-player pro billionaire system because you have been conditioned to think it's fair.

You could basically fold 4 of the 7 Canadian teams the next day if there was UFA at age 18.

And the cap is the cap. It doesn't matter who gets the money.