Value of: DeAngelo

[MXD]

If the Rangers are willing to give him up actually for "free" (= take on another salary/cap dump in the neighbourhood of 5M$), there will EASILY be takers

That's unproven until it happens.

 

[MXD]

Would it have been OK for Dubois to punch Tortorella, after he kept yelling at him?

Whether that's okay or not is totally irrelevant. Feelings don't matter.

The Rangers had enough of ADA (vid was posted somewhere above). They told him something akin to "if you screw up again, you're waived".

He screwed up. And he's been waived.

The exact same thing happened with Kassian in Montreal (though Kassian had a dramatically shorter leash).

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

That's unproven until it happens.

He was waved. He was literally free. Just take contract. No one wanted it.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

It wasn't for free. Try to stick to facts

Anyone who would have claimed him, would have had to take on his 4,8M$ salary & cap hit.

In a salary cap league, basically every single big cap hit player will go through the waivers - the ones that wouldn't will never be put on waivers.

If the Rangers are willing to give him up actually for "free" (= take on another salary/cap dump in the neighbourhood of 5M$), there will EASILY be takers

 

[blindpass]

It’s not “completely debunked” though. Apparently it’s a common enough prank where a vet will pretend to lose the puck. The rumors involve Miller, and others Ranger, not finding DeAngelo’s version of the it a very good natured version of the prank to say the least.

There’s no photo for Miller. There’s a photo of Lafreniere w/ is his 1st goal puck, so it’s not a COVID thing. Some people have made the argument that they don’t “celebrate” losses but players like Kakko got a photo w/ his 1st goal puck from a drubbing in a loss.

Maybe Miller was so broken up by the loss to Buffalo that he didn’t want a photo. Typically though regular season milestone photos aren’t tied to regular season wins or losses.

As others have pointed out, the quote from Miller’s agent is, at best, “a very soft rebuttal”. All the quote says is that, as far as Miller knows, the puck isn’t missing now. That doesn’t disprove the prank story.

The reason people are skeptical about these excuses is that does feel like the Rangers are covering this up with typical ham-fisted spin. It’s almost comical how a typical few team friendly supposed “source leaks” popped up after that story because public. Miller actually broke up the fight! Miller reached out to Tony via text! And his defenders eat up the obvious spin with a spoon.

I believe there’s a real chance DeAngelo did that prank but I wouldn’t swear to it. I also personally don’t want to push for the “truth to come out” because it doesn’t look like Miller wants to be forced to talk about. If Miller himself doesn’t want talk about it then what does all this grandstanding get us?

And Miller’s position is understandable, young non-white players’ careers don’t do well after they complain about this sort of thing. It’s grotesque, but Miller would be seen as a trouble maker for airing the team’s dirty laundry.

That’s why I don’t want this drag into interviews with Miller about DeAngelo. Miller turned 21 twelve days ago, why does he be the adult in the room and unpack this for everybody? He’s not the asshole.

And If you want to believe Rangers management handwaving and spin on this as concrete proof the prank didn’t at all go right ahead, I don’t need to play internet debate club.

I appreciate this post as an articulate statement of the point of view I've been pushing against. I think there's a possibility that something like this happened. If it did there would still be a lot of questions to ask about how it was presented by Adam Herman and the idea that a lot of spin is being served and eaten up on the topic resonates with me too.

I think Miller's agent's statement is pretty clear, I don't see how it is a soft rebuttal.
“It’s K’Andre’s understanding that the NYR equipment manager, or whoever is responsible for getting it, has the puck and that it’s being framed like other first goals. At no time did he think otherwise.”

Neither were the statements by the team. They didn't dodge the issue, they categorically said it was false meaning if other facts come to light they will be in a very bad spot. What we see in the video also doesn't really jibe with the narrative.

The idea that the Rangers might be motivated to hide their dirty laundry isn't crazy, and this narrative hinges on that completely. The idea that Herman has DeAngelo Derangement Syndrome (sorry) isn't crazy either. I genuinely don't know what to believe here.

I'd still encourage anyone who finds the issue interesting (for me it is because it is a bit of a microcosm of bigger issues) and wants to have perspective on it, I suggest you watch the highlights of the goal. It goes like this...

DeAngelo, playing on the offensive goal line (of course) when Miller takes a point shot, instantly celebrates the goal and continues towards the net to retrieve the puck. No way he's faking happiness at the goal, or unaware who scored it. Then we see the celebration, which DeAngelo joins last because we was retrieving the puck. Miller is waiting for him to arrive after celebrating with the others and they fist bump then hug. This just doesn't look like two people who dislike (or are even ambivalent about) each other, or one who is about to prank another for racial reasons (who happens to have 5 inches height and 25lbs on him, how's that going to go?) Maybe DeAngelo really is like a cartoon villain and attempted this. Just seems far fetched. A friendly prank is more plausible, but still seems doubtful given the statements by agent and team.

If we really want the truth MSG would likely have the relevant video -- the broadcast has a camera cut right before DeAngelo would have been seen skating by the trainer(?) with the towel on his shoulder who is gesturing for the puck. It also looks like he turns and hands something to another guy who turns and goes down the tunnel, but I can't say it looked puck-like unless it had been put inside something.

I'm not saying DeAngelo is getting shafted, that he isn't a locker room problem, a jerk, or even that he didn't try to play a prank. My problem is that people want to mesh a bunch of embellished ideas into a narrative that makes someone an irredeemable racist when there really isn't any evidence of it. Herman is definitely playing it that way. He may have some inside knowledge to justify that which he isn't at liberty to share, but the ends don't justify the means. We shouldn't just believe something because it suits our purposes.

Since you said you don't want internet debate club I don't expect a response, but again, I do appreciate your long thoughtful post amidst the superficial hot takes.

 

[Vikke]

Players get into physical altercations with teammates all the time.

They do. On the ice, in the heat of the moment. Not off the ice. That's very, very rare.

 

[blindpass]

Was this after the first or second time he used a slur against someone?

Jesus you're going to hurt yourself bending over backwards for this guy.

Second.

I fully appreciate how ridiculous it is to be digging this deep down the rabbit hole. What else do you do to counter tons of ignorant, lazy drive-by attacks? I don't know. Only other option is to ignore it. My interest is in the broader social phenomena, not the individual case. I just happen to be a hockey fan too.

 

[notsocommonsense]

So you think any player who gets any criticism from anyone (teammate / coach / GM etc), is allowed to punch the critic?

Would it have been OK for Dubois to punch Tortorella, after he kept yelling at him?

Lol, of course not

 

[Chips]

So you think any player who gets any criticism from anyone (teammate / coach / GM etc), is allowed to punch the critic?

Would it have been OK for Dubois to punch Tortorella, after he kept yelling at him?

In a league that allows fights? And in which fights happen at practice every year? Yea.

It suggests they may have a history prior to this, and or that DeAngelo would shit on a teammate at all is a continuance of his general anger issues (or maturity issues, as the team puts it for years)


Physicality to a point is fine. Team chemistry is more important and while Georgiev started the physical part, you could certainly make the case DeAngelo set him off being unsportsmanlike/crapping on a teammate who obviously wasn’t happy he made a mistake.

Mistakes happen. You cut your teammate some slack, rather than piling on and making them feel worse.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Second.

I fully appreciate how ridiculous it is to be digging this deep down the rabbit hole. What else do you do to counter tons of ignorant, lazy drive-by attacks? I don't know. Only other option is to ignore it. My interest is in the broader social phenomena, not the individual case.

Why are you so concerned with someone who was suspended twice for either homophobic or racist comments, whose father admitted he raised him while openly using slurs, who then has been essentially 'fired' by now 3 NHL teams within 5 years, who has peddled ignorant conspiracy theories online and now been punched in the face by a teammate.

Do you think the world is out to get him? Has he been treated unfairly? Is there no reason to suspect that all of that evidence does not suggest he may in fact be, a terrible person?

What is your angle here?

 

[Muikea Bulju]

I applaud your poor effort at a strawman, it saved everyones time of making you look bad cause you did it on your own

Did you read the message?

"Heaven forbid he should be accountable for his own actions"

So you think when players give each other criticism, it's OK for the criticized player to punch people to "hold them accountable"?

 

[unicornpig]

LOL at the people defending DeAngelo

 

[Calad]

Did you read the message?

"Heaven forbid he should be accountable for his own actions"

So you think when players give each other criticism, it's OK for the criticized player to punch people to "hold them accountable"?

Yea i dont debate trolls I just like to point out when they make an ass of themselves. Have fun

 

[Chips]

They do. On the ice, in the heat of the moment. Not off the ice. That's very, very rare.

I’m fairness, just off of the ice, immediately after the game isn’t much different lol. Same emotions are all there.

Goalies carry more mental weight than any other player. They’re basically playing a different game and they have a majorly disproportionate amount of responsibility than any individual center or dman or whatever.

We see how frustrated goalies get smashing their sticks, or staying down motionless on the ice as if they died after they just failed sprawling out.. or staring off into space.

Georgiev didn’t look happy. You can safely assume he was already upset with himself before his teammate decided to pile on like an asshole.

Its not “okay” to punch someone, but obviously it happens and hockey people understand the emotion, incitement etc


I mean, we really shouldn’t have to even guess. The team chose Georgiev.

 

[blindpass]

Why are you so concerned with someone who was suspended twice for either homophobic or racist comments, whose father admitted he raised him while openly using slurs, who then has been essentially 'fired' by now 3 NHL teams within 5 years, who has peddled ignorant conspiracy theories online and now been punched in the face by a teammate.

Do you think the world is out to get him? Has he been treated unfairly? Is there no reason to suspect that all of that evidence does not suggest he may in fact be, a terrible person?

What is your angle here?

Read the post history of you care. Not repeating it all for you individually.

Briefly, I think he should be accountable for what's true, but not what isn't true.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

In a league that allows fights? And in which fights happen at practice every year? Yea.

It suggests they may have a history prior to this, and or that DeAngelo would shit on a teammate at all is a continuance of his general anger issues (or maturity issues, as the team puts it for years)


Physicality to a point is fine. Team chemistry is more important and while Georgiev started the physical part, you could certainly make the case DeAngelo set him off being unsportsmanlike/crapping on a teammate who obviously wasn’t happy he made a mistake.

Mistakes happen. You cut your teammate some slack, rather than piling on and making them feel worse.

The league allowes fights in which both parties are willing combatants. If the biggest goon in the league beats someone like Gerbe who doesn't want any part of it, he will be suspended.

Fights during practice scrimmages are a completely different thing, again usually both parties want to fight.

Imagine if someone like Kassian, Chara or Reaves was on the same team with Johnny Gaudreau, and completely beat them up in practice, with Johnny Hockey not wanting to fight, how long do you think the guy would last before getting terminated?

 

[El Travo]

Did you read the message?

"Heaven forbid he should be accountable for his own actions"

So you think when players give each other criticism, it's OK for the criticized player to punch people to "hold them accountable"?

Depends. Is the guy usually fairly reasonable and is handing out advice on how to fix things in their game? If so, then it's probably not okay to punch them. What about if they're a total c*nt and just being an asshole? Then it's probably fine.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

Yea i dont debate trolls I just like to point out when they make an ass of themselves. Have fun

So when you dish out your dumbass comments, it's not trolling, but when someone criticizes your stupid comments, it is definately trolling?

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Read the post history of you care. Not repeating it all for you individually.

Briefly, I think he should be accountable for what's true, but not what isn't true.

Did my post say anything that was not true?

It seems like you're just evading the fact that you are bending over backwards for someone who has continually shown he is not a good person and not a good teammate.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

Depends. Is the guy usually fairly reasonable and is handing out advice on how to fix things in their game? If so, then it's probably not okay to punch them. What about if they're a total c*nt and just being an asshole? Then it's probably fine.

Well for example Big Buff yelled in the middle of the game to Laine, it was even heard in the broadcast, should Laine have punched him?

 

[WeThreeKings]

LOL at the people defending DeAngelo

People defended Mitch Miller.. there really is no bottom for some people.

 

[Chips]

The league allowes fights in which both parties are willing combatants. If the biggest goon in the league beats someone like Gerbe who doesn't want any part of it, he will be suspended.

Fights during practice scrimmages are a completely different thing, again usually both parties want to fight.

Imagine if someone like Kassian, Chara or Reaves was on the same team with Johnny Gaudreau, and completely beat them up in practice, with Johnny Hockey not wanting to fight, how long do you think the guy would last before getting terminated?

NHL players are men with macho mindsets. Many men, perhaps most consider some talk “fighting words” and would, again, blame DeAngelo over Georgiev. Especially, again, in a league that settles things between player often with fights in the heat of the moment.

You talk some shit, men back it up.

What played out played out. If we gotta agree to disagree then so be it, but obviously they made the choice they made. DeAngelo has a long history Georgiev does not.
I guess be glad you’re not in the NHL.

 

[HabsAddict]

99% this all about team chemistry and someone who excels at making it worse.

Meanwhile, lots of "horrible human being" from people who can't help themselves but judge others on their lofty perceptions.....of a person they never met.

 

[El Travo]

Well for example Big Buff yelled in the middle of the game to Laine, it was even heard in the broadcast, should Laine have punched him?

Would you dare to punch Byfuglien? Probably not.

It's about respect. DeAngelo gets none because he's a dick.

 

[explore]

Just read all of NYRFan92360244's tweets and likes and I'm dying. There is no way that isn't DeAngelo's account

Asking the important questions