Confirmed with Link: Datsyuk Leaving Wings

[The Zetterberg Era]

So he actually asked for five years, another not so good revelation for team Datsyuk in this process....

 

[Frk It]

How is this team going to tank exactly? Are you going to break Mrazek's legs? Send Larkin to Russia with Datsyuk for a few seasons? Make AA wear cement skates?

Like it or not, this team is too good to be awful.

Winnipeg got the #2 pick and has a roster that is pretty comparable top to bottom talent-wise for what we are looking at icing next year (minus a big addition).

No offseason moves, and an injury to Larkin or Mrazek, and we could be right there.

 

[Frk It]

So he actually asked for five years, another not so good revelation for team Datsyuk in this process....

He changed his mind. He also gave this team a ton and helped us accomplish a ton.

I hate this thread. I dislike his decision, but the good far outweighs the bad.

 

[Flowah]

And eaten the contract for three years. That would have been brilliant.

Is there no mutual rescission that just "erases" a contract when it hasn't even begun yet? Datsyuk signed that while he still had a year, didn't he? Why would the NHL even be worried about players and teams agreeing to that sort of thing *while they're already on contract*?

I can't see what sort of gamesmanship could be done by player or team through such a mechanic. And if there's no gamesmanship, like 15 year front loaded contracts, then I don't see why the NHL would care. And if they let it go through, we wouldn't be on the hook at all.

That said I'm sure the CBA says something about it. It just personally does not make sense to me.

yes because every team that tanks and rebuilds ends up being good a few years later.

It's about probability. I'm sure there's a non-zero probability for a lot of things. Like winning without elite talent. But you want that elite talent anyway to increase your chances. Your chances of tanking and rebuilding and getting good are higher than it is treading water as a bubble team that squeaks in on the last day of the regular season every year and is knocked out in the first round.

There are no guarantees. Just probabilities.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He changed his mind. He also gave this team a ton and helped us accomplish a ton.

I hate this thread. I dislike his decision, but the good far outweighs the bad.

The thread is about his decision to leave the Wings, there is an appreciation thread...

Thankful for what he did give, sucks he ended it like this. Waiting for the SKA contract worth significantly more. That is the final step in this Greek Tragedy of an ending.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I hate this thread. I dislike his decision, but the good far outweighs the bad.

I feel like if we were privy to more information about negotiations, we would have hard feelings for a number of players. Because we've heard from Datsyuk, somehow it makes him worse. But I'm not convinced he actually is.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Is there no mutual rescission that just "erases" a contract when it hasn't even begun yet? Datsyuk signed that while he still had a year, didn't he? Why would the NHL even be worried about players and teams agreeing to that sort of thing *while they're already on contract*?

I can't see what sort of gamesmanship could be done by player or team through such a mechanic. And if there's no gamesmanship, like 15 year front loaded contracts, then I don't see why the NHL would care. And if they let it go through, we wouldn't be on the hook at all.

That said I'm sure the CBA says something about it. It just personally does not make sense to me.



It's about probability. I'm sure there's a non-zero probability for a lot of things. Like winning without elite talent. But you want that elite talent anyway to increase your chances. Your chances of tanking and rebuilding and getting good are higher than it is treading water as a bubble team that squeaks in on the last day of the regular season every year and is knocked out in the first round.

There are no guarantees. Just probabilities.

NHL rules are pretty black and white, you could have expected them to enforce something approved and registered through the league office. No they wouldn't have let him out, just like this doesn't really fit the classic worry of the 35+ contract but they are going to stick them with the cap hit anyway.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Winnipeg got the #2 pick and has a roster that is pretty comparable top to bottom talent-wise for what we are looking at icing next year (minus a big addition).

No offseason moves, and an injury to Larkin or Mrazek, and we could be right there.

I believe the Jets actually tried to have a good season and get back to playoffs

Not sure we can rely on following that roadmap

 

[Shaman464]

So he actually asked for five years, another not so good revelation for team Datsyuk in this process....

Holland was pretty clear his agent asked for it. His agent who works on a commission where a 5 year 32 million dollar contract is better than an 3 year 23 million dollar contact. At the same time it's clear that Datsyuk wasn't 100% clear on the details of 35+.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Holland was pretty clear his agent asked for it. His agent who works on a commission where a 5 year 32 million dollar contract is better than an 3 year 23 million dollar contact. At the same time it's clear that Datsyuk wasn't 100% clear on the details of 35+.

I think Holland was just trying to protect Datsyuk.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Holland was pretty clear his agent asked for it. His agent who works on a commission where a 5 year 32 million dollar contract is better than an 3 year 23 million dollar contact. At the same time it's clear that Datsyuk wasn't 100% clear on the details of 35+.

And the agent represents Datsyuk. Obviously in contract negotiations he will be talking to the agent, not Datsyuk.

Datsyuk himself said he was clear on the details of a 35+ contract.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

They wouldn't have been stuck with any hit. They could have gone to the league together and gotten the contract voided.

Any source to back up this claim?

I feel like if we were privy to more information about negotiations, we would have hard feelings for a number of players. Because we've heard from Datsyuk, somehow it makes him worse. But I'm not convinced he actually is.

It's not about the negotiations. Those probably get pretty tough from both sides. It's about him deciding not to fulfill his contract.

 

[jaster]

Well, after Khan's article today, it's clear that:

- Holland and the Wings are absolved of this fiasco; given that it was the Wings who worked to shorten the deal as much as possible, while Datsyuk wanted FIVE years, and also because Datsyuk didn't bring up the idea of returning to Russia until a year after the contract was signed.

- At best, Datsyuk is naive and Greenstin is one of those agents who works for himself and not his client; given that Holland says he believes Datsyuk didn't understand the 35+ rule.

- At worst, Datsyuk knew (or knew there was a strong possibility) that he was not going to ultimately honor the contract and went for the most amount of money he could get in the shortest period of time as possible anyway; given that Datsyuk says he did understand the 35+ rule yet still signed the contract.


Given that Datsyuk fired Greenstin and hired Milstein last year, I think the "at best" scenario is more likely than the "at worst." But that's based on speculation, since none of us know exactly why Datsyuk switched agents.

Regardless, Datsyuk screwed up here, whether it was born of his own naivety/gullibility, or his own dishonesty. I begrudge no one for looking past that and maintaining their love for the guy (personally, I only begrudge him on principle, I have no ill will towards him), but do only that. Stop trying to spin this as being Detroit's fault. The facts don't support that stance.

 

[jaster]

Holland was pretty clear his agent asked for it. His agent who works on a commission where a 5 year 32 million dollar contract is better than an 3 year 23 million dollar contact. At the same time it's clear that Datsyuk wasn't 100% clear on the details of 35+.

Well, Datsyuk is claiming he understood the rule, so we can't say it's clear that he didn't understand it. I'm not saying I believe him, but we now have conflicting reports.

 

[jkutswings]

yes because every team that tanks and rebuilds ends up being good a few years later.

The odds are low, no doubt. But the point is that Holland flipping the bird to conventional wisdom, pretending he's the smartest guy in the room by "rebuilding on the fly", has resulted in year after year of no chance of winning a Cup. I'll take low odds over a dead end any day.

 

[PuckDynasty]

The odds are low, no doubt. But the point is that Holland flipping the bird to conventional wisdom, pretending he's the smartest guy in the room by "rebuilding on the fly", has resulted in year after year of no chance of winning a Cup. I'll take low odds over a dead end any day.

SJ hasn't really ever tanked it and made it to the finals this year.

 

[Bench]

SJ hasn't really ever tanked it and made it to the finals this year.

And is Zetterberg was producing like Thornton, there might be hope for the Wings.

Say nothing of Burns, Pavelski, etc. Just a stronger core roster at every major position.

 

[obey86]

And is Zetterberg was producing like Thornton, there might be hope for the Wings.

Say nothing of Burns, Pavelski, etc. Just a stronger core roster at every major position.

And....

Burns, acquired via trade.
Pavelski, acquired via the 205th overall pick in the draft.

Just more proof that good players exist outside of top 5 picks.

 

[Fear]

How is this team going to tank exactly? Are you going to break Mrazek's legs? Send Larkin to Russia with Datsyuk for a few seasons? Make AA wear cement skates?

Like it or not, this team is too good to be awful.

Bad teams in the NHL are not nearly as bad as you think. Winnipeg, Columbus, Edmonton, Vancouver - they all have some good talent, but lack in key areas.

Its pretty funny that you mention players like Athanasiou as if he's too good to tank with.

 

[Frk It]

And....

Burns, acquired via trade.
Pavelski, acquired via the 205th overall pick in the draft.

Just more proof that good players exist outside of top 5 picks.

And we did that with Datsyuk, Z, Franzen and others.

It's possible, but it's not something you can bank on realistically.

Not something you would want to bet on for turning you around.

Logan Couture was their best player the entire playoffs and was a top 10 pick. Let's also remember that Burns wa acquired by trading a top 10 pick.

 

[chances14]

Did Datsyuk draw up the contract and send it in to the NHL for approval?

Yep, The WHOLE thing is Datsyuks doing.

I chose to place the blame on the GM, ya know, that guy whose job it is to plan ahead. The guy who should have thought of every angle with a player who openly announced he wanted to return to Russia before signing the contract.

The whole thing is on Datsyuk, right.

yes, yes it is. datsyuk wanted a long term deal, not the wings

i think it's ridiculous to expect a gm to know a guy is going to back out on a deal not even a year into it when it was datsyuk himself who wanted a 5 year deal

if datsyuk was having doubts about staying before he signed the contract, he should have went with one year deals.

 

[obey86]

I wonder how many people realize Datsyuk actually led all forwards on the team last year in ozone start%?

 

[obey86]

And we did that with Datsyuk, Z, Franzen and others.

It's possible, but it's not something you can bank on realistically.

Not something you would want to bet on for turning you around.

Logan Couture was their best player the entire playoffs and was a top 10 pick. Let's also remember that Burns wa acquired by trading a top 10 pick.

Here's the thing. Right now, the Wings are already getting access to talent via the draft they haven't had a chance at in 20+ years. Larkin #15, Svechnikov #19, this year's pick #16. Those are literally their 3 highest 1st round picks since 1991. All in a 3 year span.

While they aren't getting a chance at the top 5 picks (obviously), they are still getting chances at better talent than they have had a chance at for the majority of the last 20+ years. That will pay off eventually, tank or no tank into the top 5.

 

[schenneuf]

I thought the NHL and KHL had a transfer agreement? How can Datsyuk play in the KHL when he is still under contract with Detroit?

 

[Frk It]

Do people really think we're too good to draft top 10 though?

-Zetterberg has regressed from a ppg guy to a ~50 point player
-Kronwall has regressed from a serviceable top pairing guy to a -21 black hole.
-We finished last season with Dekeyser and Quincey as our top pairing. Arguably the worst in hockey.
-Our center depth has been the best part of the team for the last 5 years, next year we are probably bottom 1/3 of the league in that department

And solutions?
-Vatanen just re-signed, scratch him off the list.
-Barrie is rumored to command a Trouba-level player, which we don't have
-^Ditto for the idea of getting Trouba
-Stamkos is going to go to the highest bidder, and we are going to struggle to free up cap space

So outside of Mrazek playing like a Vezina candidate all season (which he has only been able to do for stretches of 1-2 months), someone tell me how we are too good for a bad finish?