Confirmed with Link: Datsyuk Leaving Wings

[Syckle78]

And in 10 years they'll be 29 and 34.

Sure if you keep trotting out the hyperbole of it taking a decade to rebuild.

 

[obey86]

What about trading him for a 2-3 million dollar player with one year left on his contract that the other team doesn't want anymore? It saves the Wings 4 million or so on the cap and the other team gets out having to pay 3 million for a player they don't want.

I mean, if they can't find someone to take his full cap hit.

 

[Henkka]

What about trading him for a 2-3 million dollar player with one year left on his contract that the other team doesn't want anymore? It saves the Wings 4 million or so on the cap and the other team gets out having to pay 3 million for a player they don't want.

I mean, if they can't find someone to take his full cap hit.

It could work but we need to save at least 5.5M to have any chance on Stamkos. Cap space after estimated extensions through Franzen LTIR is about 11-12 million ad it will take about 9-10million to sign Stamkos.

So maybe we could take 2M player back on the trade, but not more.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Datsyuk said to the press today that he did understand how the contract worked at the time he signed it, so we don't get to make the ignorance excuse for him anymore.

 

[archimet]

What about trading him for a 2-3 million dollar player with one year left on his contract that the other team doesn't want anymore? It saves the Wings 4 million or so on the cap and the other team gets out having to pay 3 million for a player they don't want.

I mean, if they can't find someone to take his full cap hit.

Or retain 1/3 of Datsyuk's salary if the trading partner is unwilling to take on the full $7.5 for what we're offering.

 

[Henkka]

Or retain 1/3 of Datsyuk's salary if the trading partner is unwilling to take on the full $7.5 for what we're offering.

This doesn't really make any difference.

If some team near the cap floor is interested taking any extra caphit, they can take it all. Just think it for a moment.

 

[archimet]

Sure if you keep trotting out the hyperbole of it taking a decade to rebuild.

I'm with you... at least I think we're on the same page.

I'm actually pretty excited about where the Wings are and believe Holland, Martin and the rest of them are doing a pretty darn good job. They haven't had a top-10 pick since 1991, or something. But things are in decent shape if you forecast out a couple years. We're just not used to looking at our roster and not having a bunch of Hall-of-Famers jump off the page.

There's probably not much they can do about contending this year, or probably next. But they can be competitive. In fact, if they can navigate the next 2-3 years without missing the playoffs, I can see them hitting 35+ years.

Of course all of our prospects won't pan-out, but I like what I see so far for opening day 2018-19:

Svechnikov(22yo), Larkin(22), Mantha(24)
Anthanasiou(24), UFA, Nyquist(29)/Tatar(28)
Zetterberg(38), Sheahan(27), Abdelkader(31)
Sadowy(22), Glendening(29)/Nosek(26), Bertuzzi(23)
Jurco(25), Pulkkinen(26), if they're not traded.

Axel Holmstrom and this year's top forward pick knocking on the door in Grand Rapids.

On defense, with two more years under their belt:

Dekeyser(28)
Smith(30)
Oulette(25)
Marchenko(26)
Sproul(26)
Russo(25)
Ericsson(34)
Hickets(22) and/or Saarijaarvi(21) knocking at the door.

I'm confident at least 3-4 of them will be pretty solid D's with two more years of seasoning.

Note: I'm assuming Kronwall retires before 2018-19 season, because his salary is only $1.5 million in his final year.

Mrazek(26)
Coreau (27)

Trade for Cam Fowler this year, centered around Nyquist or Tatar.

Finally, perhaps it's best to be patient with Datsyuk's cap hit. I like the potential UFA D's in 2017:
Victor Hedman
Brent Burns
Kevin Shattenkirk

We can dream that Hedman or Burns aren't re-signed. Extremely unlikely, but who knows? If they all sign, we can still attempt to trade for another top-4 D over the next two years and then we'd have an excellent D going into 2018-19.

We'll also get a pretty high-quality player in the first round of this years draft:

At #16: Probably a center (Rubtsov, McLeod, Kunnin) or a D (Fabbro, Bean, McAvoy).

And at #46, perhaps a D will fall a bit (Fox, Cholowski, etc.)

Of course, we'll lose at a good player next year to the expansion draft.

But all in all, with a couple solid pickups over the next 2-3 years, we could be back in contention by opening day 2018 or 2019. No need to tank. Let's keep the streak going and break Boston's record of 29.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Datsyuk said to the press today that he did understand how the contract worked at the time he signed it, so we don't get to make the ignorance excuse for him anymore.

But if you sign a Russian player who's been asking to leave for years to a multi-year contract over the age of 35, you're asking for it. (There are like 3 separate red flags there!) The Wings have known for a long time. I think they knew before the contract. The whole Evil Pavel Datsyuk thing is overblown. The Wings absolutely should have known better. They made their bed, and now they'll sleep in it. From the outside looking in, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the organization.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

But if you sign a player who's been asking to leave for years to a multi-year contract over the age of 35, you're asking for it. The Wings have known for a long time. I think they knew before the contract. The whole Evil Pavel Datsyuk thing is overblown. The Wings absolutely should have known better.

Holland said today that Datsyuk's agent was pushing for 5 years and the Wings would only go as high as 3. That if he offered one-year he was afraid he'd lose Datsyuk. They had to threaten to stop Datsyuk from playing in the KHL just to get him to honor the second year of his contract.

Today Holland even tried to let Dats off the hook a bit by saying he didn't think Pavel fully grasped the implications of a 35+ contract at the time, but Datsyuk said he understood them.

I don't hate him for it, but this is 100% on Datsyuk. I'm pretty critical of Holland, but he did his job.

 

[archimet]

This doesn't really make any difference.

If some team near the cap floor is interested taking any extra caphit, they can take it all. Just think it for a moment.

No... Perhaps you should think it through. It's not just teams trying to reach the floor who may be interested. Team's with internal salary caps may also be interested. If the Cap is 72.7 this year, but their internal cap is $67, or so, they may be willing to take on $5 million in cap and no more if they get a decent prospect or a pick for free. If that's the case, and a Team or two probably fall into that category (Ottawa), retaining salary might help seal the deal.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Holland said today that Datsyuk's agent was pushing for 5 years and the Wings would only go as high as 3. That if he offered one-year he was afraid he'd lose Datsyuk. They had to threaten to stop Datsyuk from playing in the KHL just to get him to honor the second year of his contract.

Today Holland even tried to let Dats off the hook a bit by saying he didn't think Pavel fully grasped the implications of a 35+ contract at the time, but Datsyuk said he understood them.

I don't hate him for it, but this is 100% on Datsyuk. I'm pretty critical of Holland, but he did his job.

But there's a difference between Datsyuk and Datsyuk's agent. I don't think for a second Datsyuk wanted all those years.

And didn't he say Datsyuk wanted out like a week after the contract was signed? They should have thought about it more seriously. If a guy doesn't want to play, he doesn't want to play. They could have torn up that contract. But they found a way to get him to play, and then it happened again the next year, and they actually strong-armed him into playing that year. Why are we so surprised that he left this year? He tried in the first year to get out, tried in the second year to get out, and now he's succeeded in his third shot. Sounds to me like his message has been pretty consistent.

Jesus. They should have just let the guy go home. He clearly has wanted this for a long time now.

 

[obey86]

But there's a difference between Datsyuk and Datsyuk's agent. I don't think for a second Datsyuk wanted all those years.

And didn't he say Datsyuk wanted out like a week after the contract was signed? They should have thought about it more seriously. If a guy doesn't want to play, he doesn't want to play. They could have torn up that contract. But they found a way to get him to play, and then it happened again the next year, and they actually strong-armed him into playing that year. Why are we so surprised that he left this year? He tried in the first year to get out, tried in the second year to get out, and now he's succeeded in his third shot. Sounds to me like his message has been pretty consistent.

Jesus. They should have just let the guy go home. He clearly has wanted this for a long time now.

If he "clearly wanted this for a long time now" he shouldn't have been an idiot and signed a 3 year deal.

 

[arin1]

Dats can do as he pleases, it obviously wasnt an easy choice for him. A HHOF career and 2 cups isnt enough for ya'll?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

If he "clearly wanted this for a long time now" he shouldn't have been an idiot and signed a 3 year deal.

Counterpoint: the Wings should have let him out of the deal when he came asking a week later. He changed his mind, and they should have let him go home like he wanted to. This wouldn't have been nearly as bad if the Wings hadn't tried to play hardball with him.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I'm with you... at least I think we're on the same page.

I'm actually pretty excited about where the Wings are and believe Holland, Martin and the rest of them are doing a pretty darn good job. They haven't had a top-10 pick since 1991, or something. But things are in decent shape if you forecast out a couple years. We're just not used to looking at our roster and not having a bunch of Hall-of-Famers jump off the page.

There's probably not much they can do about contending this year, or probably next. But they can be competitive. In fact, if they can navigate the next 2-3 years without missing the playoffs, I can see them hitting 35+ years.

Of course all of our prospects won't pan-out, but I like what I see so far for opening day 2018-19:

Svechnikov(22yo), Larkin(22), Mantha(24)
Anthanasiou(24), UFA, Nyquist(29)/Tatar(28)
Zetterberg(38), Sheahan(27), Abdelkader(31)
Sadowy(22), Glendening(29)/Nosek(26), Bertuzzi(23)
Jurco(25), Pulkkinen(26), if they're not traded.

Axel Holmstrom and this year's top forward pick knocking on the door in Grand Rapids.

On defense, with two more years under their belt:

Dekeyser(28)
Smith(30)
Oulette(25)
Marchenko(26)
Sproul(26)
Russo(25)
Ericsson(34)
Hickets(22) and/or Saarijaarvi(21) knocking at the door.

I'm confident at least 3-4 of them will be pretty solid D's with two more years of seasoning.

Note: I'm assuming Kronwall retires before 2018-19 season, because his salary is only $1.5 million in his final year.

Mrazek(26)
Coreau (27)

Trade for Cam Fowler this year, centered around Nyquist or Tatar.

Finally, perhaps it's best to be patient with Datsyuk's cap hit. I like the potential UFA D's in 2017:
Victor Hedman
Brent Burns
Kevin Shattenkirk

We can dream that Hedman or Burns aren't re-signed. Extremely unlikely, but who knows? If they all sign, we can still attempt to trade for another top-4 D over the next two years and then we'd have an excellent D going into 2018-19.

We'll also get a pretty high-quality player in the first round of this years draft:

At #16: Probably a center (Rubtsov, McLeod, Kunnin) or a D (Fabbro, Bean, McAvoy).

And at #46, perhaps a D will fall a bit (Fox, Cholowski, etc.)

Of course, we'll lose at a good player next year to the expansion draft.

But all in all, with a couple solid pickups over the next 2-3 years, we could be back in contention by opening day 2018 or 2019. No need to tank. Let's keep the streak going and break Boston's record of 29.

"Of course all of our prospects won't pan out."

It's very likely none of them pan out. Maybe 1 or even 2 of them pan out, but expecting any more than that is completely unrealistic. I mean the Wings went roughly 15 years in between drafting Z/D and Larkin, and you expect the Wings to just have the next 5-6+ picks to pan out? And by pan out, i mean they have to mean vastly exceed their expectations because the Wings already have a bunch of depth/roleplayers in their system. They certainly don't need any more role players. The current DRW roster is basically comprised of only depth players.

The current crop of Wings prospects on defense look like plugs/tweeners at best. Saarijaarvi is the only one that might have any high end potential, and that's only because he was drafted last year. XO, Sproul and everyone else are basically prime candidates to be waived or life long AHL'ers.

The Wings need almost an entirely new blue line, and the top six of their forward core is not good at all, and the farm system doesn't look like it has anyone in the system that has the prerequisite skill to prevent the Wings from going into full rebuild mode by the end of next season.

It's Larkin and spare parts, and we have to hope Larkin ends up being an elite 80 point center.

 

[obey86]

"Of course all of our prospects won't pan out."

It's very likely none of them pan out. Maybe 1 or even 2 of them pan out, but expecting any more than that is completely unrealistic. I mean the Wings went roughly 15 years in between drafting Z/D and Larkin, and you expect the Wings to just have the next 5-6+ picks to pan out? And by pan out, i mean they have to mean vastly exceed their expectations because the Wings already have a bunch of depth/roleplayers in their system. They certainly don't need any more role players. The current DRW roster is basically comprised of only depth players.

The current crop of Wings prospects on defense look like plugs/tweeners at best. Saarijaarvi is the only one that might have any high end potential, and that's only because he was drafted last year. XO, Sproul and everyone else are basically prime candidates to be waived or life long AHL'ers.

The Wings need almost an entirely new blue line, and the top six of their forward core is not good at all, and the farm system doesn't look like it has anyone in the system that has the prerequisite skill to prevent the Wings from going into full rebuild mode by the end of next season.

It's Larkin and spare parts, and we have to hope Larkin ends up being an elite 80 point center.

Such hyperbole

 

[chances14]

Counterpoint: the Wings should have let him out of the deal when he came asking a week later. He changed his mind, and they should have let him go home like he wanted to. This wouldn't have been nearly as bad if the Wings hadn't tried to play hardball with him.

you can't just let a player out of his contract once it's signed and official and not have any ramifications from it.

i don't buy the agent wanted something different than datsyuk excuse either. the agent works for datsyuk, not the other way around

it's fine if you don't hold it against datsyuk for leaving, but i'm tired of people defending datsyuk and turning it around on holland when clearly this was of datsyuk's doing

 

[jkutswings]

The Wings absolutely should have known better. They made their bed, and now they'll sleep in it. From the outside looking in, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the organization.

Sympathy? Datsyuk leaving is the first sign in 4 years that the tire kicking might finally stop, and some significant changes might finally be happening.

Now imagine what options they'd have if they would've traded Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg 2-3 years ago, perhaps even for a decent defenseman or two. They could sign Stamkos, still have room for more moves, and be well on their way to meaningful playoff games again.

And yet there's also still the chance that Kenny will spin this into yet another year of treading water for no good reason. I hope I'm wrong on that front.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

And now for one last magic trick

I will now disappear

 

[KCC]

How selfish of him. You suck it up and play one more year.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

How selfish of him. You suck it up and play one more year.

Only we can bash datsyuk

 

[Run the Jewels]

I'm really bummed that we will never see #13 again in the winged wheel. I understand it was a family decision and I can never blame a guy who puts his family first. The truth of the matter is that Lidstrom and Datsyuk were the final two Hall of Famers from the great run we've had over the past 30 years.

This for me is the end of an era that started when the Red Wings selected Steve Yzerman 4th overall in 1983. Pav will be the bad guy because you will never recover what is now lost and it's easy to put all the blame on him. He leaves, the playoff streak ends, ergo he is to blame.

35+ contracts are full of risk and that's probably why the perfect human signed one year deals near the end of his career.

 

[XO]

Goodbye.

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

"Of course all of our prospects won't pan out."

It's very likely none of them pan out. Maybe 1 or even 2 of them pan out, but expecting any more than that is completely unrealistic. I mean the Wings went roughly 15 years in between drafting Z/D and Larkin, and you expect the Wings to just have the next 5-6+ picks to pan out? And by pan out, i mean they have to mean vastly exceed their expectations because the Wings already have a bunch of depth/roleplayers in their system. They certainly don't need any more role players. The current DRW roster is basically comprised of only depth players.

The current crop of Wings prospects on defense look like plugs/tweeners at best. Saarijaarvi is the only one that might have any high end potential, and that's only because he was drafted last year. XO, Sproul and everyone else are basically prime candidates to be waived or life long AHL'ers.

The Wings need almost an entirely new blue line, and the top six of their forward core is not good at all, and the farm system doesn't look like it has anyone in the system that has the prerequisite skill to prevent the Wings from going into full rebuild mode by the end of next season.

It's Larkin and spare parts, and we have to hope Larkin ends up being an elite 80 point center.

I'm pretty sure most people working in the league would say you're extremely pessimistic. Mantha and Svechnikov have very good chances at being top 6 players. Bertuzzi, AA, Sadowy have very good chances at being good bottom 6 players. Sheahan, Tatar, and Nyquist have all proven to be top 9 players, no matter how poorly you view them.

Sproul just had his best run as an AHL defensemen in the playoffs. XO has showed well in all of his games with the Wings. Russo had a tremendous rookie season with the Griffins. Saarijarvi looked like a Vatanen-clone in the WJC.

Mrazek has done nothing but show he can be one of the best goalies in the game at 23 years old.

We lack elite prospect talent in very specific areas - those being center and defense. Those areas can be addressed in this draft. It's also very possible some of these spare parts you've maligned exceed your lowly expectations.

 

[PuckDynasty]

If he "clearly wanted this for a long time now" he shouldn't have been an idiot and signed a 3 year deal.

Funny how differently this is being treated by fans and media than Fedorov's situation was. I can only imagine had Sergei left the Wings hanging for 7 million like this.

That slob Krupa even had the nerve to say Pavel has more class than Fedorov because he let the Wings know "in advance" he was leaving. You gotta be kidding me.

Fedorov did everything within the confines of the rules both with the Carolina situation and when leaving for Anaheim. He actually left for less money to play more. Datsyuk is leaving for equal or more money to play less. I like how he's "fielding" offers from KHL teams. Surely dear sweet innocent Pavel isn't interested in money?!?! No, its about his daughter that he makes a few weeks for in the summer. No, it's his injuries that never seem to serious enough to keep him from playing for Mother Russia.