OT: Covid-19 (Part 46) Under Pressure

[ghost85875]

Genderfluid people do not choose to be genderfluid, they are genderfluid.

Why is it a bad line to draw? This is how society currently operates.

Again, you are trying to pin on me things I never said. We are not persecuting or killing unvaccinated people.

Not surprised you're trying to do disgusting parallels again.

That's not "pin" or "disgusting parallels" or distorting, as you seem to imply. That's merely the world of possibilites deemed "okay" by your affirmation.

And it's not light consequences either, quite some people are losing everything because they are being forced to take it or be fired. They have to choose between personal conscience and submission.

Don't talk me about them switching to a tolerant employer. Some people have devoted a very long time of their lives to be able to pursue their career and sometimes there's no alternatives to switching.
Because of opportunities, a job being available only in the public sector, all private employers asking the same choice, etc.

 

[dcyhabs]

Employers were irrationally and unethically discriminating against people based on sexual orientation so we should let people spread disease?

Anyone in the health system who doesn't believe in vaccines or understand vaccine schedules should find something else to do. Businesses are mostly going along with restrictions on the theory that the restrictions reduce the chances of more complete shutdowns, not to mention chance of death. Line cooks in restaurants have been among the most likely to die from COVID, and they are in short supply now. Restaurants are restricting in part to keep their staff alive.

Vaccinate or don't vaccinate, but if you don't vaccinate don't complain about restrictions and don't expect people to be sympathetic if you take up a hospital bed that could have gone to someone who didn't have an option not to need it.

 

[ghost85875]

Employers were irrationally and unethically discriminating against people based on sexual orientation so we should let people spread disease?

Anyone in the health system who doesn't believe in vaccines or understand vaccine schedules should find something else to do. Businesses are mostly going along with restrictions on the theory that the restrictions reduce the chances of more complete shutdowns, not to mention chance of death. Line cooks in restaurants have been among the most likely to die from COVID, and they are in short supply now. Restaurants are restricting in part to keep their staff alive.

Vaccinate or don't vaccinate, but if you don't vaccinate don't complain about restrictions and don't expect people to be sympathetic if you take up a hospital bed that could have gone to someone who didn't have an option not to need it.

The death rate of covid-19 is very low. It isn't SARS.

 

[Licou]

The death rate of covid-19 is very low. It isn't SARS.

But it's significantly more transmissible... And it has shown that with the volume of infections when left unchecked, it can cripple regional health care systems...

 

[Kriss E]

The death rate of covid-19 is very low. It isn't SARS.

Thanks to what is called progress.

 

[ghost85875]

But it's significantly more transmissible... And it has shown that with the volume of infections when left unchecked, it can cripple regional health care systems...

I understand your point.

But even before covid-19, there were problems. There's simply isn't enough money put in the system or/and it's not well managed enough.

Let's think about the burden of alcohol and drugs on the volume of hospitalization.

This burden is very much higher than the burden related to covid-19.

 

[Treb]

That's not "pin" or "disgusting parallels" or distorting, as you seem to imply. That's merely the world of possibilites deemed "okay" by your affirmation.

It's not in the world of possibilities of my affirmation though. You named a bunch of non-choice and tried to cram it in my affirmation about choice.

Then by consequences, you tried to frame it as persecution and death which is not part of the consequence the society impose on you for anything.

And it's not light consequences either, quite some people are losing everything because they are being forced to take it or be fired. They have to choose between personal conscience and submission.

You always had to choose to "submit" (lol) to certain things, this isn't new. I can't show to work naked and poop on my desk.

The death rate of covid-19 is very low. It isn't SARS.

Deaths
SARS-1: 774
SARS-2: 4,593,898 to 10 million

 

[Treb]

I understand your point.

But even before covid-19, there were problems. There's simply isn't enough money put in the system or/and it's not well managed enough.

Let's think about the burden of alcohol and drugs on the volume of hospitalization.

This burden is very much higher than the burden related to covid-19.

When is the last time alcohol and drugs have overwhelmed ICUs?

 

[dcyhabs]

The death rate of covid-19 is very low. It isn't SARS.

Direct deaths are low and getting lower. Hospital stays are getting longer as young people get sick and stay on ventilators for weeks. The health system, at least in Quebec, is having trouble coping as doctors and nurses burn out both from the workload and from the idiocy of the people protesting and coming for treatment. Less people are dying as pretty much all old people are vaccinated, but long covid is a thing, too. A lot of the people taking up hospital beds now are going to be quite unwell for a long time.

If someone decides they are OK with getting COVID and they really don't want to get vaccinated, fine. Listen to idiots and bad actors on Facebook instead of to health Canada, do your thing, but don't spread it to other people who may not be able to make the same decision, young people or immune compromised, or who may not have the same risk tolerance. The government has stated that you can be prosecuted and sued on the civil side for transmitting covid if you didn't follow the guidelines.

It's easy to say the death rate is low as long as it doesn't affect you personally. If someone you care about needs a hospital bed they may be SOL because of gullible people who like social media.

 

[ghost85875]

When is the last time alcohol and drugs have overwhelmed ICUs?

Hospitalization related to alcohol and drugs is a familiar problem. Hence they are able to plan the number of beds by taking it into consideration, among other causes.

Here, we see that the government did accept to deal with it.

But they didn't put some beds for unforeseen causes, nor did they really add beds in the two years since covid-19. That's a choice.

 

[Licou]

Hospitalization related to alcohol and drugs is a familiar problem. Hence they are able to plan the number of beds by taking it into consideration, among other causes.

Here, we see that the government did accept to deal with it.

But they didn't put some beds for unforeseen causes, nor did they really add beds in the two years since covid-19. That's a choice.

We could easily add hundreds of beds if not a thousand or two, but without nurses and doctors.. it's not very useful.

 

[MXD]

Hospitalization related to alcohol and drugs is a familiar problem. Hence they are able to plan the number of beds by taking it into consideration, among other causes.

You also can't catch alcoholism.
You should really, really stop comparing Covid to things that aren't transmissible. I mean, you can continue, but the weight accorded to your posts will be (and, frankly, is) nil.

 

[ghost85875]

It's not in the world of possibilities of my affirmation though. You named a bunch of non-choice and tried to cram it in my affirmation about choice.

Then by consequences, you tried to frame it as persecution and death which is not part of the consequence the society impose on you for anything.

I did name choices. I did also use the word "discrimination".

Look at societies around the world, the examples of persecution i gave do exist (remplace little finger with middle finger).

You always had to choose to "submit" (lol) to certain things, this isn't new. I can't show to work naked and poop on my desk.

Yeah, that's harmless convention. Not the same as violating personal conscience.

Deaths
SARS-1: 774
SARS-2: 4,593,898 to 10 million​

I said death rate, not number of deaths.

 

[Treb]

I did name choices. I did also use the word "discrimination".

Look at societies around the world, the examples of persecution i gave do exist (remplace little finger with middle finger).



Yeah, that's harmless convention. Not the same as violating personal conscience.



I said death rate, not number of deaths.

So now what non-democratic countries do matter in the argument in a democratic country?

What about the vaccine violate personal conscience?

Death rate is irrelevant if it can't transmit.

 

[dcyhabs]

"Personal conscience" for vaccines, prioritizing the life of viruses over people. No one is forcing anyone to get vaccinated, just not to spread disease. Or is it respect for gullibility? Some people's right to be easily misled and not walk it back trumps other people's rights to not get a life-threatening illness?

This isn't a new thing, vaccines work, they don't do long term harm, and some need boosters. It's not new to have a lunatic fringe protesting them, either, and I suppose at some point that fringe might get something right, infinite number of monkeys, but it hasn't happened yet, and doesn't look likely with covid.

The vaccine rate would probably be good enough in Quebec if the people not vaccinating were random. As the majority of the unvaccinated overlaps with the least careful and least responsible it's going to be a bigger problem than it otherwise would be.

Hadn't seen this, NHL's new COVID-19 protocols include mechanism for suspending unvaccinated players, it's got some nutty loopholes but it's pretty good. Unvaccinated players pretty much have to sit in their hotel room on the road and get tested daily. The NHL is taking covid more seriously than a lot of other leagues, and it's probably because of the border crossings. Players have until Oct 1 to decide if they skip the upcoming year for covid, teams can decide to push the contract or burn a year.