OT: Coronavirus XXXVIII: Variants, the Debbie Downer to Getting to Herd Immunity?

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yes

someone doesn't know anyone suffering from mental health issues

 

[alphahelix]

We "escaped" every other pandemic by having wave after wave of death leaving the survivors to pick up the pieces. The Black Death killed roughly half of the population of Europe.

Small pox and other old world diseases killed at estimated 90% (or more!) of the pre-Columbian population of the Americas.

Besides even in history they didn't have the germ theory of disease but still knew that it was important to quarantine during plague outbreaks.

It’s definitively true that poorly educated peasants from the Middle Ages with no access to information were capable of making better public health decisions than “a subset of the population” here today who have unfettered access to literally the entirety of modern science.

This is one of those V.I. Lenin moments, isn’t it? You look for the one who will benefit, and then you.. find the walrus.

 

[alphahelix]

someone doesn't know anyone suffering from mental health issues

Anyone posting in this thread knows at least one person suffering from mental health issues.

 

[doulos]

someone doesn't know anyone suffering from mental health issues

You'd be shocked how much I know about this.

 

[soothsayer]

Let’s be realistic about the politics of it as well. China always wants to assert sovereignty (same as USA or even ourselves) , to go a long with attempting to display an air of competence, as well as being embroiled in international pissing matches with governments like Canada et al. at the time (and through the present).

No one would put it past China to have exercised a cover up but its actually a simpler explanation to just say China continued its pattern of behaviour “piss off, we’ll handle our own business” across all areas and jurisdictions including public health when their political officials are probably not well versed on global pandemics— much like our right wing hardliners except their officials have more power and can act more decisively. When they decide on a course of action, it will be executed and they won’t usually have to worry about legal consequences. So the “cover up” is probably limited to the PR realm. Of course no one can rule out other scenarios at this time but there is always an outside chance in any situation that.. it was aliens.

I pretty much agree with this. I also hope we're not at a place in this thread of taking for granted that Covid was created in a lab.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I heard the virus may have mutated all it can if that makes sense.

So that's some good news if true. Less of a chance that this will become an ongoing thing-- at least for this particular virus.

Of course the existential can of worms is still there and stinking up the place.

That makes roughly zero sense and is likely false.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

You'd be shocked how much I know about this.

Anyone posting in this thread knows at least one person suffering from mental health issues.

exactly, and they are suffering during lockdowns

 

[Nostradumbass]

I pretty much agree with this. I also hope we're not at a place in this thread of taking for granted that Covid was created in a lab.

No, but calling those people out has been deemed 'cluttering the thread' so no productive discussion will occur. It's not worth the time and/or energy to try to fight the significant volumes of misinformation here anymore.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The intolerance of others and outright religious bashing in this thread is getting old.

It's getting more and more like Reddit. Unsubstantiated stories to make a particular group look bad, gross generalizations for the same effect, total lack of empathy for others, feelings stated as facts, etc.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

That makes roughly zero sense and is likely false.

I don't know the source.

It makes some sense though....its not like it can mutate itself a lazer cannon.

Is there a limit to how much the coronavirus can mutate? | Live Science

In conclusion I am sticking with my original claim.

 

[doulos]

exactly, and they are suffering during lockdowns

Indeed. I used the word minimize, not eliminate. Unfortunately mental health concerns were a thing before covid19 as well.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I don't know the source.

It makes some sense though....its not like it can mutate itself a lazer cannon.

Is there a limit to how much the coronavirus can mutate? | Live Science

In conclusion I am sticking with my original claim.

It's biologically impossible for mutations to stop, but not all mutations will be material. A replication error can cause some base pair changes that don't affect the virus at all, but it's still considered a mutation.

 

[doulos]

I pretty much agree with this. I also hope we're not at a place in this thread of taking for granted that Covid was created in a lab.

It's pretty well established that the likelyhood of it being created in a lab is extraordinarily low. Many of us that post in this thread know this but are no longer bothering to try and convince those who have decided otherwise.

 

[doulos]

That makes roughly zero sense and is likely false.

It's pretty much nonsensical.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Indeed. I used the word minimize, not eliminate. Unfortunately mental health concerns were a thing before covid19 as well.

and have been made worse by keeping people in their homes with no outlet

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

It's pretty well established that the likelyhood of it being created in a lab is extraordinarily low. Many of us that post in this thread know this but are no longer bothering to try and convince those who have decided otherwise.

by whom?

 

[doulos]

and have been made worse by keeping people in their homes with no outlet

I used the word minimize, not eliminate.

 

[doulos]

by whom?

By Doug.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I used the word minimize, not eliminate.

again...how is lockdowns "minimizing suffering" if it's actually making it worse for some people?

 

[Raab]

We "escaped" every other pandemic by having wave after wave of death leaving the survivors to pick up the pieces. The Black Death killed roughly half of the population of Europe.

Small pox and other old world diseases killed at estimated 90% (or more!) of the pre-Columbian population of the Americas.

Besides even in history they didn't have the germ theory of disease but still knew that it was important to quarantine during plague outbreaks.

Comparing covid to the black death or small pox is ridiculous. 50% of people arent dying from covid. In saying that humanity survived those diseases.

With regards to quarantine, name me a pandemic where we quarantined asymptomatic people? This is a criminal offense being used under the pretext that these people are a danger to society, which the government has yet to prove, and the science doesnt support.

 

[Raab]

Which Pandemics did we "escape" in the past? Mind citing some for reference?

Last I checked humanity is still surviving despite facing several diseases.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

We "escaped" every other pandemic by having wave after wave of death leaving the survivors to pick up the pieces. The Black Death killed roughly half of the population of Europe.

Small pox and other old world diseases killed at estimated 90% (or more!) of the pre-Columbian population of the Americas.

Besides even in history they didn't have the germ theory of disease but still knew that it was important to quarantine during plague outbreaks.

It's really incredible how quickly its been able to mutate and adapt to become more transmissible and seemingly more deadly. The worlds best minds in these fields still can't manage to get out in front of this thing and they really don't know anything about the long term efficacy of their hastily developed vaccines or the effectiveness against variants, which seem to be coming about at an impressive rate.

You talked about past diseases that wiped out huge swaths of the population but I always find myself wondering about what our world would look like if we would of been able to cure these diseases and save the bulk of those people and they were able to go on and multiply. Would the world today with a far greater population be in a better place and be sustainable?

I think that sometimes these events are necessary to ensure balance and sustainability, we see it in many other areas of nature so it seems reasonable that the same would apply to the human species, we've proved to be more resilient then every other species but also far more damaging to the natural balance of our world. With humans packing themselves into areas by the millions living on top of each other, and our penchant for travel, it seems an airborne pathogen with delayed visible symptoms was a perfect choice for a delivery method, it also comes with the added irony bonus of the thing we need the most to survive (breathing) is the thing our massive population all packed into urban areas, can't do near one another without the risk of killing each other. Now that it has a good delivery method it's working at an incredible pace to increase the effectiveness.

It seems reasonable to think that as the population increased exponentially and we had more and more of an impact on the planet, that things like diseases would also accelerate in frequency and effectiveness to keep up. Personally I think they're going to be chasing this thing for awhile to come still, partially because nature's ability to adapt but also because of our own behaviours that have been ingrained in us all for hundreds of years and aren't things that are quickly reversed or altered. Also to be considered is the effects this pandemic will likely have on our socio-economic structures, of which issues have been manifesting in a multitude of ways around the globe,things appear to be in a state of decay. These days it seems like we go from crisis to crisis so you have to think that at some point something will come along to be the proverbial straw that breaks the back, is it crazy to think that covid could potentially be that catalysts?

 

[Nostradumbass]

Comparing covid to the black death or small pox is ridiculous. 50% of people arent dying from covid. In saying that humanity survived those diseases.

With regards to quarantine, name me a pandemic where we quarantined asymptomatic people? This is a criminal offense being used under the pretext that these people are a danger to society, which the government has yet to prove, and the science doesnt support.

How they flattened the curve during the 1918 Spanish Flu

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

By Doug.

keep spreading misinformation

 

[yukoner88]

I think the pubs should hold their own religious ceremonies from 3 pm til midnight daily to get in the game. They certainly have no shortage of communion wine.

could bring a whole new meaning to happy hour, wine is used for communion already, for pandemic purposes everyone gets their own cup

beer is the holy water