OT: Coronavirus 2 - Covid Boogaloo

[CanesFanBudMan]

The Republican party of the last 50 years, in theory, leaving aside the current President, whose actual priorities are perpetually unclear.

While it’s been a selling point for voting “red” it has not been the reality over that timeframe in my opinion

regarding the current president it’s pretty clear that his priorities are attention and the appearance of power... beyond that you are right though - very unclear haha

Tried to keep these comments an non political as possible but looks like I might have failed... anyways back to your regularly scheduled programming

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Trump's treating this like a political crisis. He wants to do just enough so that he can claim credit while also shoving responsibility for the bad onto the states. That this is under the auspices of a federal government deferring to the states (which the Trump administration has been inconsistent about, depending on the issue and the state) is somewhat coincidental.

 

[The Stranger]

It's not about comparing raw numbers to other countries, it's about stockpiling enough tests so that anyone exposed can get one in order to sufficiently track the virus and potentially contain it. We're not even close to that right now, in NC you can still only get a test if you 1) have severe symptoms and either a) been exposed to someone confirmed within the last 14 days or b) have a negative flu test. For a disease where as much as 70% are completely or mildly asymptomatic this is clearly not going to cut it if we want to get ahead of this thing.

Yep, we need more testing capacity, but should people be "embarrassed"? No.

The raw number is certainly one consideration...4+million completed tests for a new virus in just a couple months is a significant achievement and a testament to those in the science, medical, and logistics industries working to make that happen.

I'm impressed what people have accomplished (while still understanding much more is needed).

 

[hblueridgegal]

My son wants to come down in a few weeks for Mother’s Day from NYC. He’s been isolating out in a low risk ($) area of Long Island with his future in-laws for almost 8 weeks and is desperate for a change in scenery. Without testing, as much as I would love to see him, I feel terrible but I keep saying saying no. Gotta suck it up buttercup and tough it out a while longer.

Even with masks and gloves, the idea of him passing through LaGuardia and flying to get here feels me with anxiety for him. Do you all know any people flying now? With so many mixed messages out there, it is hard to know when something like a visit to see family will be ok?

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Trump's treating this like a political crisis. He wants to do just enough so that he can claim credit while also shoving responsibility for the bad onto the states. That this is under the auspices of a federal government deferring to the states (which the Trump administration has been inconsistent about, depending on the issue and the state) is somewhat coincidental.

That may be, but the response by the states has been anything but coincidental.

The federal government has said, in many cases, "you're on your own", and the states have said "ok" and taken responsibilities upon themselves that should otherwise have been federal responsibilities. Which will encourage them to do more of the same in the future. I mean, in an ideal world, the federal government should be better at a lot of these things -- but we haven't lived in an ideal world for some time now.

The US is too big for one government to serve its needs.

 

[MinJaBen]

Even with masks and gloves, the idea of him passing through LaGuardia and flying to get here feels me with anxiety for him.

If I were him, I'd rent a car. The drive from NYC to the triangle is only about 9 hours, and that is with normal traffic. No way I'd get on a plane right now.

 

[DaveG]

That may be, but the response by the states has been anything but coincidental.

The federal government has said, in many cases, "you're on your own", and the states have said "ok" and taken responsibilities upon themselves that should otherwise have been federal responsibilities. Which will encourage them to do more of the same in the future. I mean, in an ideal world, the federal government should be better at a lot of these things -- but we haven't lived in an ideal world for some time now.

The US is too big for one government to serve its needs.

That's how it should be anyway though with this. The realities of this virus in the Carolinas aren't the same as they are in Seattle, and they're not the same in Wyoming as they are in New York. Hell they're not even remotely the same in Ithaca as they are in New York City. The federal government should be able to give general recommendations and support to locations that need it, but simply put a one size fits all solution makes no sense.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

That's how it should be anyway though with this. The realities of this virus in the Carolinas aren't the same as they are in Seattle, and they're not the same in Wyoming as they are in New York. Hell they're not even remotely the same in Ithaca as they are in New York City. The federal government should be able to give general recommendations and support to locations that need it, but simply put a one size fits all solution makes no sense.

Yes, in many cases, that's true. But when the federal government, which should have unparalleled ability to mobilize to procure what might be considered "war materials" (masks, testing kits, et al) not only fails to do so, but ineptly competes with the states to which it has abrogated its responsibilities, it leads one to question what function our federal government is even capable of serving at present.

It's a vicious cycle. No one trusts the government, so we vote for less government, and then we get less government, which is incapable of doing the things we expect government to do, which makes it even less trustworthy.

The government is supposed to be good at certain things. Allocating emergency resources in times of crisis is supposed to be one of those things. Not only is our current government not good at that, it's saying "we don't have to do that, that's what the states are for, oh except we're going to outbid our states for the very resources we told them to go procure." Okay.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Yes, in many cases, that's true. But when the federal government, which should have unparalleled ability to mobilize to procure what might be considered "war materials" (masks, testing kits, et al) not only fails to do so, but ineptly competes with the states to which it has abrogated its responsibilities, it leads one to question what function our federal government is even capable of serving at present.

It's a vicious cycle. No one trusts the government, so we vote for less government, and then we get less government, which is incapable of doing the things we expect government to do, which makes it even less trustworthy.

The government is supposed to be good at certain things. Allocating emergency resources in times of crisis is supposed to be one of those things. Not only is our current government not good at that, it's saying "we don't have to do that, that's what the states are for, oh except we're going to outbid our states for the very resources we told them to go procure." Okay.

Where do you find a ballot with an option for less government?

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Update.

Shifts are back to normal. More active staff and more patients.

Still at lodgings. Still working. Trying to study for the exam. I had a tap beer after more than a month. I can get a test in 10 days or so... I might actually visit home.

Life is fine.

...

Regarding the fear of government using this situation... I am almost certain I will be going to demonstrations again once this is over, but now I will have the advantage that once someone tries to pull the argumentation foul "what were YOU doing during the crisis" I can just say the truth.

 

[Unsustainable]

So lady who was arrested was warned multiple times, tore down signs, and was told they could go to other sections of the park.

 

[sabremike]

Where do you find a ballot with an option for less government?

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

View attachment 343138

I can get behind the idea of ponies if he adds a recurve bow and a basic raiding kit.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Is it too early to open it up this week? Probably. But the actual plan for opening the country up is pretty sound, if states follow it we're good.

I have no idea why Georgia's opening up when one of the stage gates to become a "Phase 1" area is 14 days of decreasing cases, while Friday (when we are scheduled to open up incrementally) will only be 10. Seems like we should follow the plan to the letter and not go off script. I guess it's an interpretation of "downward trajectory" in a 14-day period. Does that mean it has to be downward the whole time? Or a clear trend has to be seen that it "ends" the 14 day period downward. Unsure, though I'd prefer the former.

The other criteria is "treat all patients without crisis care", which I believe Georgia is fine with right now.

The "Hammer and the Dance" article that was posted here awhile back does imply a dance at some point. The "hammer" has gone on for almost a month. We are getting to the point where we can indeed open up incrementally (I don't think we're there yet, but next week? I could see it). If we don't continue to meet the criteria, we go back to shutdown. People are acting like it's the apocalypse in Georgia, when really it's kinda just dipping the toe in the water.

So the president just said publicly that he disagrees with the governor of Georgia opening up as much as he is. Says he’ll leave it up to governors, but he told him he disagreed.

 

[My Special Purpose]

As much as people want to **** on America(ns) and how we've handled this pandemic, so far it's been damn near universal that all governments have failed miserably...from full lockdowns to "business as usual" and everything in between. Even worse is they want to all call each other out for perceived failures when the reality is they ALL failed in some way

We failed bigger. And we're the United States. We're supposed to be leading the world. We're supposed to be the best. Instead, we somehow have 33 percent of all COVID-19 cases and deaths worldwide and our doctors and nurses can't get the protective equipment they need.

The one problem with your theory is that the administration would be risking their core voter base. If they "all get sick and die", that's a group of voters that they lose and that group pretty much votes republican without exception. Would be akin to the democrats sending out environmentalists to protest. Now sure, the numbers might be small (ish), but those people would then be infecting their friends/family who also likely vote the same way.

Well, the idiots are going to go back to their towns and get everyone else sick, too. Plus, they do that all the time, and they don't care, because as long as they're in charge, no meaningful election security measures will be put in place and elections -- and turnout -- will continue to be manipulated. The only way this group can stay in power is voter suppression. There's no need to debate this. They've said it out loud.

This is interesting. The IHME model is predicting which states "should" be able to relax social distancing (assuming containment strategies) sooner than others. According to their model, NC should be one of the first to open up, and GA should be one of the last.

The parenthetical is the key -- assuming containment strategies. As of right now, no jurisdiction in the United States is able to promise containment strategies consistent with what epidemiologists require for relaxing social distancing guidelines. We keep putting the cart before the horse. Test, trace, isolate, or nothing happens.

The political conspiracy theories on here are funny. The simple explanation for the protests is that many people desperately want reopening for personal financial reasons. They are out of work or their business is going belly up.

The theory that the evil administration is manipulating people to "go outside" and see if they "all get sick and die" is particularly comical. You do realize that large groups of people have been going outside the entire time and congregating in essential businesses.

Why should anyone be embarrassed in the US? The US has tested far more people than any other country, we have top notch health care capacity and health care workers, the economy was shut down to protect people, a stimulus package was passed to provide temporary financial relief, clear reopening guidelines have been communicated, and the US is trending towards 66k deaths instead of early predictions of millions dead.

I'm satisfied with how it has been handled. What am I missing?

Answer one question for me and nothing else, please.

If we adequately prepared and adequately handled everything to this point, how does the richest country in the world -- 8,000 miles from the initial viral outbreak and with four percent of the world's population -- somehow have 33 percent of the COVID-19 cases worldwide?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

So the president just said publicly that he disagrees with the governor of Georgia opening up as much as he is. Says he’ll leave it up to governors, but he told him he disagreed.

Welp, that certainly answers the question about whether it was “interpretation” of the guidelines.

 

[WreckingCrew]

If we adequately prepared and adequately handled everything to this point, how does the richest country in the world -- 8,000 miles from the initial viral outbreak and with four percent of the world's population -- somehow have 33 percent of the COVID-19 cases worldwide?

Some of the highest levels of international travel (hence lots of "first world" countries were hit harder than "third world")? Plus over 1/3 is JUST NY/NJ (high population density)...outside a few densely populated areas most places are doing ok (this goes internationally as well). Oh and only the foolish think China shut down for 80,000 cases (like .005% of their population). We thought we were invincible bc the past 20 years of pandemic threats have been "boy who cried wolf", we let our guard down like much of the world, few countries have handled things well...I don't know how one can quantify who failed bigger/worse? As for the PPE, that's bc a bunch of jackass's unnecessarily bought it out and hoarded that, hand sanitizer, and ****ing toilet paper because they're morons who completely drained the supply before we had a means to recover...just to wear it in their car!!

 

[Unsustainable]

We failed bigger. And we're the United States. We're supposed to be leading the world. We're supposed to be the best. Instead, we somehow have 33 percent of all COVID-19 cases and deaths worldwide and our doctors and nurses can't get the protective equipment they need.

1: China is lying about their numbers, and their tests was shown not to be accurate in a lot of cases.
2: China stopped shipment of 3M masks in January. Also, after the H1N1, our healthcare system never adjusted and took the initiative to stock up on PPE.

So if we roll out more accurate tests, and test more then others, yeah, we will have a higher number of people tested. China also didn’t count asymptotic people in their numbers.

Another failure is with WHO and China for lying about this. 95% of it could have been stopped from the start.

Now onto the death tolls, people with underlying health issues such as diabetes and hypertension are at higher risk to die from this. Considering that the CDC estimated that in the next 20 years, 100+ million Americans will be diabetic or prediabetic shows that majority of Americans are living an unhealthy lifestyle.

It’s getting to the point that 50% of all high school graduates can not pass the physical tests to get into the military.

 

[My Special Purpose]

nother failure is with WHO and China for lying about this. 95% of it could have been stopped from the start.

Every bit of both these comments are poor rationalizations, but I'm only going to address this one "talking point."

If the WHO and China lied, they lied to everyone, not just the U.S. So, I'm still left asking why every other country has lower rates of infection and death than we do?

Look, we're dealing with this contemporaneously so I get wanting to believe "alternative explanations." But when we're able to look back we'll see how big a failure this was in the U.S. and how few people really needed to die and how our economy didn't have to be flushed down the toilet by the most corrupt, ineffective administration in American history.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

There might have been something worse than WHO lying. And that’s the possibility they were really that inept.

 

[Unsustainable]

I'm still left asking why every other country has lower rates of infection and death than we do?

I explained that in my post that you glanced over to only talk about the shortest point I made. The spread is likely the same as it was in China in NYC and other major metropolitan areas. The death rate here is completely related to our unhealthy habits.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Every bit of both these comments are poor rationalizations, but I'm only going to address this one "talking point."

If the WHO and China lied, they lied to everyone, not just the U.S. So, I'm still left asking why every other country has lower rates of infection and death than we do?

Look, we're dealing with this contemporaneously so I get wanting to believe "alternative explanations." But when we're able to look back we'll see how big a failure this was in the U.S. and how few people really needed to die and how our economy didn't have to be flushed down the toilet by the most corrupt, ineffective administration in American history.

But that's just not true, if you're looking at per-capita we're behind Spain, Belgium, Ireland, Switzerland, Italy, and Qatar (and in a dead-heat with France) in cases (I'm not including a bunch of small countries where 1 person getting it would make them higher pretty much). In deaths per capita we're behind Belgium, Spain, Italy, France, UK, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, & Ireland. So our RATE is lower than those places. If you're talking raw numbers, no **** Sherlock, we're #3 in world population behind China (who's numbers are a farce) and India (which itself is more "isolated" and has much less international travel outside a few areas), basic statistics would tell you we'll have higher numbers. Again, I'm not defending that we did a good job or didn't suffer from ineptitude from both the people and government, just pointing out some perspective

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Some of the highest levels of international travel (hence lots of "first world" countries were hit harder than "third world")? Plus over 1/3 is JUST NY/NJ (high population density)...outside a few densely populated areas most places are doing ok (this goes internationally as well). Oh and only the foolish think China shut down for 80,000 cases (like .005% of their population). We thought we were invincible bc the past 20 years of pandemic threats have been "boy who cried wolf", we let our guard down like much of the world, few countries have handled things well...I don't know how one can quantify who failed bigger/worse? As for the PPE, that's bc a bunch of jackass's unnecessarily bought it out and hoarded that, hand sanitizer, and ****ing toilet paper because they're morons who completely drained the supply before we had a means to recover...just to wear it in their car!!

I don't think that's the real reason at all. The demand for PPE went up so dramatically that it depleted supplies (particularly masks). Nursing homes never needed PPE for every worker there, every minute of every day. Ideally, multiple masks / shift. Doctors offices never needed PPE for every office visit. Hospitals never needed PPE for every receptionist, nurse, doctor, orderly for EVERY situation, again, ideally multiple masks / shift. Police never needed PPE for regular use. etc.. etc..

This happened world wide, not just in the US and these aren't supposed to be reusable, so it's a demand that occurs daily (and sometimes multiple times a day). A group of people running to Amazon and home depot for N95 masks didn't help, but is a drop in the bucket compared to the increased demand depleting supplies and national stockpiles. A friend of mine is working to have masks manufactured for employees of his company (a large fortune 500 company) for when they come back to the office. He is working with companies in China, Europe and America to make sure he doesn't have all his eggs in one basket. He said the the non-woven polypropylene fiber used in N95 mask is nearly impossible to get worldwide right now as the supply of it is basically non-existent because the world wide demand depleted it so quickly, so they are using a mix of 3 different materials to have them screen out enough, while still being breathable.

Could the US (federal and local) have been more prepared and/or done better in getting a supply? Definitely, but there are also limitations that prevent us from having enough for every critical employee that needs them.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

1: China is lying about their numbers, and their tests was shown not to be accurate in a lot of cases.
2: China stopped shipment of 3M masks in January. Also, after the H1N1, our healthcare system never adjusted and took the initiative to stock up on PPE.

So if we roll out more accurate tests, and test more then others, yeah, we will have a higher number of people tested. China also didn’t count asymptotic people in their numbers.

Another failure is with WHO and China for lying about this. 95% of it could have been stopped from the start.

I really don't buy that and really think that this is just politicians deflecting.

 

[GoldiFox]

Trump Is Scapegoating the WHO — But Failed to Confirm a U.S. Representative for 3 Years

Scapegoating of the WHO just sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking to me. The US's soft power around the world has been evaporating at an alarming rate. It is obvious that China would fill that gap and exert their influence to further their own interests. No use in complaining after it happens when you did little to try and stop it.