Cooperstown 2024

[Terry Yake]

will beltre go in as a dodger or ranger?

 

[EpochLink]

will beltre go in as a dodger or ranger?

Mariner

 

[Tecumseh]

will beltre go in as a dodger or ranger?

Best year of his career was by far as a Dodger but the rest were fairly mediocre. He had a solid tenure with the Rangers and spent a little more time there than in LA so I’ll say as a Ranger.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Yeah I cant agree with Helton.

He's borderline as it is, nevermind when you account for his Coors/away from Coors splits. Yeah, the Coors thing gets overblown with players, but there's some smoke there with him.

Home: 1141 games, 227 HR, .345 ba, .607 slg, 1.048 OPS
Away: 1106 games, 142 HR, .287 ba, .469 slg, .855 OPS

Also, yes Mauer is worthy but it's not right that he (and others) have gotten in while Thurman Munson isn't

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Yeah I cant agree with Helton.

He's borderline as it is, nevermind when you account for his Coors/away from Coors splits. Yeah, the Coors thing gets overblown with players, but there's some smoke there with him.

Home: 1141 games, 227 HR, .345 ba, .607 slg, 1.048 OPS
Away: 1106 games, 142 HR, .287 ba, .469 slg, .855 OPS

Also, yes Mauer is worthy but it's not right that he (and others) have gotten in while Thurman Munson isn't

This is still higher than Tony Gwynn's overall career OPS

 

[Cas]

If you only subtract 2 OPS+ points for Coors, Gwynn is higher. Gwynn is a better hitter.

OPS+ is already park-adjusted. You can't just arbitrarily subtract anything from it because of park effects.

Gwynn was probably a better hitter, but it's pretty close and due primarily to Gwynn playing in a significantly weaker offensive context. Gwynn also picks up value with his legs that Helton does not. Defensively, I think it's closer to a wash - Helton was a very good defensive first baseman, but Gwynn played a more important position and was very good, until he was very bad.

I have Helton at #9 all time among first baseman, so he's an obvious HOF.

 

[Voight]

will beltre go in as a dodger or ranger?

Ranger, its fairly obvious IMO.

He essentially made his HOF candidacy in Arlington and honestly people probably barely remember him as a Dodger.

Fun fact: Todd Helton beat out Peyton Manning for the Starting QB job at Tennessee. Manning only took over when Helton got hurt.

 

[Voight]

Agreed. Before metrics he  WAS a HoFer because we used counting stats to prove lies such as LeBron > MJ. Now with metrics he's not a HoFer. One of us saw most of his career.

Rose is still a HOF'er. You have some awful takes in this thread

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Beltre and Mauer are automatics for me among the first time nominees. Mauer is top-7 - 10 all-time for catchers
in WAR7, JAWS and Career WAR. Easy induction there. Beltre career numbers speak for themselves. His career WAR and JAWS are top-4 all-time for catchers.

Utley should be in imo but it seems like voters over the past several decades have issues with electing someone that has less than 2,000 hits for their career. That sure wasn't the case back in the earlier days of the hall of fame, so it shouldn't be the case now. Utley's JAWS and WAR7 are average or higher than the average hall of fame second baseman. His career WAR of 64.5 is just 5 less than the average hall of fame second baseman. Again good enough for the HOF.

Right on the money!

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Mauer was easily a top-10 catcher of all-time. 9th all time in bWAR, 5th in bWAR7 and 7th in JAWS. To say he isn't deserving or is borderline HOF is ridiculous.

Helton is definitely borderline and I'm surprised he got in quicker than teammate Larry Walker - someone who was easily superior to Helton.

 

[Cas]

Mauer was easily a top-10 catcher of all-time. 9th all time in bWAR, 5th in bWAR7 and 7th in JAWS. To say he isn't deserving or is borderline HOF is ridiculous.

Helton is definitely borderline and I'm surprised he got in quicker than teammate Larry Walker - someone who was easily superior to Helton.

The electorate has changed a lot since 2011. Comparing HOF vote totals across years is pretty much futile.