Connor McDavid vs Jack Eichel - Round V

[Mattilaus]

I don't think you can make the argument Eichel's on-ice SH% will regress to the point where he goes from 10P in 20, to ~55P in 62GP. That's pretty unheard of production from a rookie, you hope that Crosby rounds out the season like that.

Did MacKinnon not do essentially the same thing in his rookie year? Only had 3 goals in his first 20 games.

Edit: Disclaimer - I am not saying Eichel is MacKinnon. I am not saying Eichel will perform like MacKinnon. I simply didn't pay much attention to the Avalanche that year and seem to remember something about him starting slow.

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

Did MacKinnon not do essentially the same thing in his rookie year? Only had 3 goals in his first 20 games.

Edit: Disclaimer - I am not saying Eichel is MacKinnon. I am not saying Eichel will perform like MacKinnon. I simply didn't pay much attention to the Avalanche that year and seem to remember something about him starting slow.

Mackinnon went 13 in 20, then 18 in 25. Then rounded out the season with 45P in 57GP.

 

[Moskau]

Buffalo's 5 on 5 scoring is historically low right now (again). Eichel needs to play much better but until Buffalo fixed their 5 on 5 he's not going to tear the league up. Only Carolina, Anaheim and Philadelphia have scored fewer goals total and Eichel would be 2nd in scoring behind Giroux and Perry.

He needs to play much better, he needs to move his feet more and he needs to go to the areas of the ice that don't have the opposition draped all over him but until Dan Bylsma figures out how to construct lines and not deploy those lines on the wrong side of the ice I wouldn't hold my breath on much happening. I wouldn't be shocked if Eichel pots 3 pts a game and then puts up 3 points in the following 9 games total because that's what the rest of the team seems to be doing other than Ryan O'Reilly.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't really understand the Eichel hate. He's .5PPG right now on a terrible team as a 19 year old. Thats really good, if you take away the Eichel hype. It also really should be more points than it is right now, but he plays with a lot of bad players on his team. He's not playing bad hockey.

Only scoring 40 points in his rookie season doesn't rule him out from being a PPG player for his career. Stamkos only scored 46 points in his rookie season, Tavares scored 54 points, Joe Thornton had 7 points in his rookie season. He also might end up with 60 points. Its barely 1/4 of the way through the season.

 

[Aceonfire*]

I don't really understand the Eichel hate. He's .5PPG right now on a terrible team as a 19 year old. Thats really good, if you take away the Eichel hype. It also really should be more points than it is right now, but he plays with a lot of bad players on his team. He's not playing bad hockey.

Only scoring 40 points in his rookie season doesn't rule him out from being a PPG player for his career. Stamkos only scored 46 points in his rookie season, Tavares scored 54 points, Joe Thornton had 7 points in his rookie season. He also might end up with 60 points. Its barely 1/4 of the way through the season.

Sure but when people call you generational, the bar is certainly higher. Especially when it was supposedly McDavid vs Eichel.

It was never fair to Eichel being compared to McDavid like that.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Sure but when people call you generational, the bar is certainly higher. Especially when it was supposedly McDavid vs Eichel.

It was never fair to Eichel being compared to McDavid like that.

I think the assumption that Eichel was better equipped for the NHL in his first season was correct. He's better physically, and being equal physically to 10 year NHL veterans is an advantage that Eichel has over other other rookies. McDavid's in the same boat as the other rookies in physicality.

Eichel's team is among the worst offensively, average defensively. McDavid's team is average offensively, among the worst defensively. McDavid has much better offensive players around him than Eichel.

If you put them on the same team, I think you'd notice that its really close between the two. If we take points out of the equation and just analyze their play, I think it'd be hard to say McDavid's been a lot better than Eichel. The points would say he's been much better, but I think its actually really close.

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

I think the assumption that Eichel was better equipped for the NHL in his first season was correct. He's better physically, and being equal physically to 10 year NHL veterans is an advantage that Eichel has over other other rookies. McDavid's in the same boat as the other rookies in physicality.

Eichel's team is among the worst offensively, average defensively. McDavid's team is average offensively, among the worst defensively. McDavid has much better offensive players around him than Eichel.

If you put them on the same team, I think you'd notice that its really close between the two. If we take points out of the equation and just analyze their play, I think it'd be hard to say McDavid's been a lot better than Eichel. The points would say he's been much better, but I think its actually really close.

McDavid's line mates were Yak and Pouliot, both who have done very little since his injury. You think Eichel would be doing what McDavid was doing with them instead of Kane/Ennis/whoever? Hmmm.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

McDavid's line mates were Yak and Pouliot, both who have done very little since his injury. You think Eichel would be doing what McDavid was doing with them instead of Kane/Ennis/whoever? Hmmm.

I said its close. I didn't say Eichel would be doing as well.

Its about more than just line mates. McDavid has much better offensive players on his team, and his team has performed better offensively.

 

[McFlyingV]

I said its close. I didn't say Eichel would be doing as well.

Its about more than just line mates. McDavid has much better offensive players on his team, and his team has performed better offensively.

Its really not that close right now. McDavid creates something and looks dangerous every time he's on the ice. His skating and IQ are out of this world and he was only getting better with every game. Eichel is a great player and will be a top player in this league, but he's not and never has been in McDavid's tier.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Will be a top 10 player one day but he's not generational. That term gets used too often.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I truly believe Eichel will go down as the most overrated Draft prospect in recent memory.

Based off what? Were you saying this last year?

Last May?

Last July?

In September?

The sad thing is that had Eichel chosen the CHL or stayed at BU and was averaging over 2 PPG, nobody would change their opinion on his draft position or pre-draft analysis.

I mean, ask Tampa fans who watched him last week if they share your opinions. Heck, ask the Tampa players if they agree with your assessment.

I don't care if Eichel has only dominated 25% of his first 20 games. He's capable of doing things at 18 or 19 most players can't do at all.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Sure but when people call you generational, the bar is certainly higher. Especially when it was supposedly McDavid vs Eichel.

It was never fair to Eichel being compared to McDavid like that.

Yes it was most certainly fair.

This entire thread is based on revising history. Most scouts interviewed before and at the draft said both players were very close and it was simply a matter of preference.

And anybody who knows Eichel will tell you he will never let expectations or hype or comparisons impact his game. He is a student of the sports who attacks his weaknesses with study and effort.

If Eichel's game has disappointed some fans through the initial 20-game sample of his first year in the NHL, then I'd love to know who in academic hockey circles (to include players and coaches) feel the same way.

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

Most scouts interviewed before and at the draft said both players were very close and it was simply a matter of preference.

Maybe, MAYBE 1/10 scouts said that. If that were the case McDavid wouldn't have been unanimous #1 on every single list. Matter of preference, hoo boy. Whatever helps you sleep

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

I said its close. I didn't say Eichel would be doing as well.

Its about more than just line mates. McDavid has much better offensive players on his team, and his team has performed better offensively.

what does having Hall-RNH on the line above you do for your performance?

not like Eichel's playing top D pairings/lines just yet, either. Is it Edmonton's "putrid" D that is helping his offence?

 

[lawrence]

I don't really understand the Eichel hate. He's .5PPG right now on a terrible team as a 19 year old. Thats really good, if you take away the Eichel hype. It also really should be more points than it is right now, but he plays with a lot of bad players on his team. He's not playing bad hockey.

Only scoring 40 points in his rookie season doesn't rule him out from being a PPG player for his career. Stamkos only scored 46 points in his rookie season, Tavares scored 54 points, Joe Thornton had 7 points in his rookie season. He also might end up with 60 points. Its barely 1/4 of the way through the season.

no one hates him, in fact this thread alone there has been more attacks towards McDavid for some strange reason despite still having more points. It's just that, there are just people saying "he is not generational" and their party goes up in arms and thinks he's being attacked. He is an excellent player but he's just not generational doesn't mean he's being attacked.

Based off what? Were you saying this last year?

because people put the word "Generational" in the same sentence of Eichel. Which sparked some fans mostly american fans who are not even Sabres to overate him to some degree and also with intentions of wanting him to be better then McDavid, he is often "overrated" and if you tell me, "over exaggerate" with stuff that are not even true about him just to at least put some attempts to make him sound as good as McDavid. Such as "he has better stick handling" he is "bigger" plays like a "beast" using exaggerated terms, to make him sound as possible. goes 2 goals in 3 games, he was already compared to Crosby 3 games into his career, spawns another thread, a blessing from the heavens that Sabres got the second pick.

In a game he notches 2 points against Vancouver, once again, going off stats sheets, they were talking about how great he was. He was good, but over exaggeration again. He is an outstanding player, and once again some fans get offended if we compare him to Ryan Getlzaf?

This entire thread is based on revising history. Most scouts interviewed before and at the draft said both players were very close and it was simply a matter of preference.

You are referring to Kessel vs Crosby.

Eichel vs McDavid, McDavid was number 1 in 100% of all scouting list, but sure... if you said so.... Anyone who said Eichel had a chance at number 2 was trying to pimp up the 2015 draft. Not to mention some scouts said Mathews would have pushed for the number 2 pick if he was in the same draft year. yea... generational.

Will be a top 10 player one day but he's not generational. That term gets used too often.

It's overused now, using it on the wrong players to, to draw up "hype" I guess. I guess It did get some more American viewers to view hockey, I guess it worked in that way. Even though it's not true. Might work to start slapping that term a little more in following drafts to players who are not generational. If the term can be used on Eichel, they should have used it on Stamkos and Tavares.

to be honest, these guys were never close. Sure, if you guys say so...... they were often compared, it makes McDavid look bad actually to be compared to an inferior player, and this makes Eichel look good to be compared to a player above him in Mcdavid, which making t hem look equal.

 

[Mattilaus]

no one hates him, in fact this thread alone there has been more attacks towards McDavid for some strange reason despite still having more points.

Stopped reading right there. This thread has been pages and pages of saying Eichel sucks, he is unimpressive, and he is overrated. It has been a non-stop bash Eichel-fest since McDavid's first point. The fact that you can't see that shows your bias.

 

[AD1066]

no one hates him, in fact this thread alone there has been more attacks towards McDavid for some strange reason despite still having more points.

I want both to do well, and there's no way the above is true.

Reading the paragraph below, you're treating every bit of praise for Eichel as somehow discrediting McDavid. (Since both being great players is mutually exclusive and all).

"Better stickhandling": who said this?
"Bigger": he is slightly bigger, it's factual.
"Beast": has been used to describe 100s of players on these boards, from skilled players to grinders. Can mean any number of things.
"Blessed by the hockey gods": again, the thread was started by an Islanders fan. Naturally Eichel and his fans deserve backlash.

Mostly harmless praise, and a thread that Sabres fans wish had never been started...

KevyD comes in posting in bold and CAPS and talking about things like the VENOM Eichel deserves and how he enjoys watching Eichel struggle, and you don't have a problem with it?

 

[Velo]

Yes it was most certainly fair.

This entire thread is based on revising history. Most scouts interviewed before and at the draft said both players were very close and it was simply a matter of preference.

If Buffalo had ended up with the first overall instead of Edmonton, who do you think they would've chosen, McDavid or Eichel?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Its really not that close right now. McDavid creates something and looks dangerous every time he's on the ice. His skating and IQ are out of this world and he was only getting better with every game. Eichel is a great player and will be a top player in this league, but he's not and never has been in McDavid's tier.

Blatant bias because McDavid plays for your team.

Have you watched a lot of Sabres games to say that Eichel hasn't created something and been dangerous every time he's on the ice?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

no one hates him, in fact this thread alone there has been more attacks towards McDavid for some strange reason despite still having more points. It's just that, there are just people saying "he is not generational" and their party goes up in arms and thinks he's being attacked. He is an excellent player but he's just not generational doesn't mean he's being attacked.

Have you not read the last page of this thread?

Eichel's the most overrated prospect, he's not close to as good as McDavid after 20 NHL games, even your statement that he's not generational. He gets a lot more hate from HF than McDavid does.

Those are all big statements to make about a player after his first 20 games in the NHL. It seems like an attack on him from the McDavid defenders who can't tolerate that someone has taken away spotlight from the next golden boy in the sport.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Based off what? Were you saying this last year?

Last May?

Last July?

In September?

I've been dumping on Eichel since before you were born.

When Eichel underperformed at the U18's, I was there!
When Eichel underperformed at the WJR's, I was there!!
Now Eichel has underperformed in the NHL and I am here!!!
Jack Eichel is not a Generation Player. He NEVER has been. He NEVER will be.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Sure but when people call you generational, the bar is certainly higher. Especially when it was supposedly McDavid vs Eichel.

It was never fair to Eichel being compared to McDavid like that.

As others have said, this has NOTHING to do with Eichel or the Sabres - I'm sure Eichel is a nice kid. It has everything to do with the Usual Suspects - American posters who OVER HYPE their prospects. They do it year in and year out. Those prospects never live up to the hype but, instead of learning from their mistakes, they just over hype the next guy and deny, deny, deny they ever pumped up the previous one.

Perfect example : Seth Jones...

Seth Jones was called the American Bobby Orr. He was hyped as 'much better than McKinnon'. He was going to perform on a far higher lever than Ekblad ever could - some said Ekblad was going to be a bust. Jones was going to be a Generational D-Man.

When NONE of these things happened, did the Usual Suspects say, "Next time we'll wait and see?" No, they started up with Eichel. They said he was as good as McDavid. They ran down McDavid. Now Eichel isn't living up to the hype.

As I have said before, the Usual Suspect want a Generational Player so bad that they resent Canada's ability to produce the best and the brightest. That resentment leads to shouting matches that alienate posters. When the alienated posters say "I told you so" after the fact, the Usual Suspects get upset. Well, that is too bad. Next time don't over hype the player.

They also want the NCAA to be on the same level as the CHL - which it is not.

That is why this thread is here and why so many posters are taking pleasure in Eichel's struggles. So, if you want to blame someone for the venom Eichel is receiving, blame the Usual Suspects.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

If Buffalo had ended up with the first overall instead of Edmonton, who do you think they would've chosen, McDavid or Eichel?

McDavid. As would the other 28 teams. Saying two prospects are close in upside doesn't mean there wasn't one with an advantage.

You are referring to Kessel vs Crosby.

Eichel vs McDavid, McDavid was number 1 in 100% of all scouting list, but sure... if you said so.... Anyone who said Eichel had a chance at number 2 was trying to pimp up the 2015 draft. Not to mention some scouts said Mathews would have pushed for the number 2 pick if he was in the same draft year. yea... generational.

to be honest, these guys were never close. Sure, if you guys say so...... they were often compared, it makes McDavid look bad actually to be compared to an inferior player, and this makes Eichel look good to be compared to a player above him in Mcdavid, which making t hem look equal.

Saying they are close doesnt mean there was not a preference. Both had outstanding pre-draft year's with Eichel's NHLe from his NCAA production almost equal to what McDavid did at Erie. McDavid was the better prospect, but Eichel did enough to stay in the conversation up through their NHL games.

Maybe, MAYBE 1/10 scouts said that. If that were the case McDavid wouldn't have been unanimous #1 on every single list. Matter of preference, hoo boy. Whatever helps you sleep

Only 1/10 scouts said they were close? Where did you come up with that? After Eichel's performance at the combine every scout I talked to or saw interviewed said they were close, with Mcdavid hold a slight edge due to his speed.

Nobody is saying McDavid didn't deserve to be No. 1. He was the best prospect available. Eichel was a close second regardless of whether you want to deny it or not.

I've been dumping on Eichel since before you were born.

When Eichel underperformed at the U18's, I was there!
When Eichel underperformed at the WJR's, I was there!!
Now Eichel has underperformed in the NHL and I am here!!!
Jack Eichel is not a Generation Player. He NEVER has been. He NEVER will be.

How is he underperforming at the NHL level? And what is your barometer for performing?

 

[obey86]

How is he underperforming at the NHL level? And what is your barometer for performing?

He is on pace for just 41 points. Considering the ridiculous expectations coming in (considered a generational prospect, saying his playing style should adapt easily to the NHL, would be the #1 pick in every draft if McDavid wasn't there, etc) he hasn't lived up to expectations...YET.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

How is he underperforming at the NHL level? And what is your barometer for performing?

After all the bragging and posturing we saw from the Usual Suspects; after all the "Eichel plays against men while McDavid plays against children" comments (never questioning the quality of those men); after all the Eichel is Generational boasting; after all the Eichel is as good as McDavid talk...

McDavid. McDavid is the standard.

And it is just not me - I just happen to be the one who best articulates the hypocrisy of the other side.

**

My beef is not with you DM23 - I never saw you over hyping this kid. You should not have to be on the receiving end of the wrath. It is just too bad it has come to this. It wouldn't have if Eichel apologist had been even the slightest bit objective. Sadly, it just seemed the less well Eichel performed, the louder they shouted, the more they revised history and the uglier it got.

I will give you the last word, DM. I keep getting pulled into this silliness and I need to move on.