Prospect Info: Cole Perfetti, 10th Overall Pick

[Mortimer Snerd]

i would guess that body checking increases the risk factor by a bit. closer proximity. you hit someone and you both forcibly exhale.
that being said, it's guys breathing heavy for their 45 second shift and then sitting on a packed bench, that's what the risk factor is.

That's just it. They are already so close and breathing so hard that if anyone has the virus it is going to be transmitted to everyone else anyway. And there is still plenty of body contact, on the boards in particular. Then there is them together in the dressing rooms. Once everyone has it, how can 1 more vector transmit it to anyone else?

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

That's just it. They are already so close and breathing so hard that if anyone has the virus it is going to be transmitted to everyone else anyway. And there is still plenty of body contact, on the boards in particular. Then there is them together in the dressing rooms. Once everyone has it, how can 1 more vector transmit it to anyone else?

If I may don my conspiracy theorist hat for a moment...

I believe there are people who would like to see body contact permanently removed from all pre-adult levels of organized hockey in the belief that it will eliminate concussions and other brain trauma. Covid has simply provided them with a convenient rationalization for furthering this agenda.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If I may don my conspiracy theorist hat for a moment...

I believe there are people who would like to see body contact permanently removed from all pre-adult levels of organized hockey in the belief that it will eliminate concussions and other brain trauma. Covid has simply provided them with a convenient rationalization for furthering this agenda.

I suspect you are right.

They may have a point. Maybe. But if they are going to limit, reduce or ban body contact for those kinds of reasons, they should be honest about it and do it for those reasons. Not use some other pretext.

I don't like 'hidden' agendas. Though I have experienced people acting on them, politically manipulating situations on local, low level issues several times in my time. Human nature, I guess. When you think you know you are right it doesn't matter how you achieve your ends, as long as you achieve them.

 

[HannuJ]

That's just it. They are already so close and breathing so hard that if anyone has the virus it is going to be transmitted to everyone else anyway. And there is still plenty of body contact, on the boards in particular. Then there is them together in the dressing rooms. Once everyone has it, how can 1 more vector transmit it to anyone else?

checking would definitely increase risk of transmission, but we're not talking exponentially. it's all just tomfoolery and showmanship. "look! we're doing something!"

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

checking would definitely increase risk of transmission, but we're not talking exponentially. it's all just tomfoolery and showmanship. "look! we're doing something!"

I really don't think it can increase the risk since, IMHO, it is already at 100%. If a game starts with 1 infected player, all will be infected by the time the game ends. If it starts with 0 infected players then none will be infected regardless of hitting.

You can't get a little bit pregnant. And you can't get pregnant without screwing (medical interventions excepted).

I could be mistaken of course, but I don't see it making even a tiny difference. On any 1 shift, yeah OK, a small difference. In a complete game, none.

 

[JetsUK]

I really don't think it can increase the risk since, IMHO, it is already at 100%. If a game starts with 1 infected player, all will be infected by the time the game ends. If it starts with 0 infected players then none will be infected regardless of hitting.

You can't get a little bit pregnant. And you can't get pregnant without screwing (medical interventions excepted).

I could be mistaken of course, but I don't see it making even a tiny difference. On any 1 shift, yeah OK, a small difference. In a complete game, none.

It isn't quite that infectious, but checking does add an additional vector for transmission, especially with what we now know about distances and aerosol transfer. And given the numbers we're seeing and the jumps in community infection, it makes some sense. Plus, when you're working back to trace a point of infection in order to refine and firm up safety protocols trying to minimize close contact between players may be useful to narrow the lens -- we're doing that now following a recent outbreak in one of our units. And I guess there's also the question of leagues and teams looking to limit liability and convey the impression of an appropriate response in order to make restarts and/or continuation more appealing to a skeptical population and government.

No idea about a broader agenda, since I don't follow OHL chatter that much.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It isn't quite that infectious, but checking does add an additional vector for transmission, especially with what we now know about distances and aerosol transfer. And given the numbers we're seeing and the jumps in community infection, it makes some sense. Plus, when you're working back to trace a point of infection in order to refine and firm up safety protocols trying to minimize close contact between players may be useful to narrow the lens -- we're doing that now following a recent outbreak in one of our units. And I guess there's also the question of leagues and teams looking to limit liability and convey the impression of an appropriate response in order to make restarts and/or continuation more appealing to a skeptical population and government.

No idea about a broader agenda, since I don't follow OHL chatter that much.

Considering how close hockey players are during game play and sitting on the bench, breathing hard pretty much the whole time? There would be no one not exposed to a large viral load. How could there be? Anyone who doesn't contract it would need to have enough natural immunity to fight it off. In that case, body checking still doesn't make any difference. Actual body checking makes up only a small(ish) part of the total body contact between players in a game.

Has there been any research done on people who manage to avoid the disease despite being heavily exposed?

I don't know anything about the hidden agenda either. It is hidden.
I think it is about trying to convey that impression of doing everything they can.

 

[HannuJ]

I really don't think it can increase the risk since, IMHO, it is already at 100%. If a game starts with 1 infected player, all will be infected by the time the game ends. If it starts with 0 infected players then none will be infected regardless of hitting.

You can't get a little bit pregnant. And you can't get pregnant without screwing (medical interventions excepted).

I could be mistaken of course, but I don't see it making even a tiny difference. On any 1 shift, yeah OK, a small difference. In a complete game, none.

yeah, you're oversimplifying the virus. not that i want to get into a huge COVID chat, but i'll just touch on a few things.
1. depends what stage of your infection you are
2. depends on HOW infected you are i.e. your viral load. not everyone's a superspreader.
3. depends on proximity to the person infected
4. depends on air circulation in arena/locker room

If a player is VERY infectious and he plays, then he's theoretically going to give it to the people within closest proximity to him on the bench. the next highest risk would be the people near to him in the locker room. then the next highest risk would be the people on the ice with him at the same time that are D'ing him up or that he's playing D on, the proximity to him and the length of time and frequency near him.
Then you have a wild card like a trainer who may have a relatively brief but close interaction with the player, or perhaps the player rinses his mouth and spits near a trainer and aerosolized virus is spread.

bottom line is that it isn't cut and dry as to who will get the virus. you can assume that an asymptomatic player could give the virus to a few teammates and may possibly give it to 1-2 opposing players. the NFL's a good example of the lack of team to team spread when someone is asymptomatic.

you also factor in teams getting swabbed every few days and them possibly quarantining, so you're reducing the risk a bit.

 

[JetsUK]

Considering how close hockey players are during game play and sitting on the bench, breathing hard pretty much the whole time? There would be no one not exposed to a large viral load. How could there be? Anyone who doesn't contract it would need to have enough natural immunity to fight it off. In that case, body checking still doesn't make any difference. Actual body checking makes up only a small(ish) part of the total body contact between players in a game.

Has there been any research done on people who manage to avoid the disease despite being heavily exposed?

I don't know anything about the hidden agenda either. It is hidden.
I think it is about trying to convey that impression of doing everything they can.

Yes to the bolded, but quality, peer-reviewed research into viral load and transfer mechanisms with CVD19 is still pretty minimal, as you'd expect given the triaging of research and clinical medicine since this broke in February/March. Also, guidance is changing rapidly on the basis of what is known and learned, so I don't fault any non-pro league where players aren't being well-paid to take the risk of a career-shortening or even lethal infection, for erring on the side of caution.

I do wonder if any levels have been experimenting with a shortened, partitioned bench, where fewer players can sit with barriers between them -- totally impractical for rec/beer leagues, but might be workable in junior. I'd also expect that teams have looked into visor or visor/mask designs that maximize protection while allowing for ventilation and visibility. But even if non-contact doesn't disappear the risk of infection, or even cut it substantially, it's worth a shot, IMO.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

yeah, you're oversimplifying the virus. not that i want to get into a huge COVID chat, but i'll just touch on a few things.
1. depends what stage of your infection you are
2. depends on HOW infected you are i.e. your viral load. not everyone's a superspreader.
3. depends on proximity to the person infected
4. depends on air circulation in arena/locker room

If a player is VERY infectious and he plays, then he's theoretically going to give it to the people within closest proximity to him on the bench. the next highest risk would be the people near to him in the locker room. then the next highest risk would be the people on the ice with him at the same time that are D'ing him up or that he's playing D on, the proximity to him and the length of time and frequency near him.
Then you have a wild card like a trainer who may have a relatively brief but close interaction with the player, or perhaps the player rinses his mouth and spits near a trainer and aerosolized virus is spread.

bottom line is that it isn't cut and dry as to who will get the virus. you can assume that an asymptomatic player could give the virus to a few teammates and may possibly give it to 1-2 opposing players. the NFL's a good example of the lack of team to team spread when someone is asymptomatic.

you also factor in teams getting swabbed every few days and them possibly quarantining, so you're reducing the risk a bit.

All those things affect the chance of a player being a spreader. They don't have any effect on whether body checking increases the distribution or not.

I am simplifying it. Because we are talking about a simple equation. And I forgot to allow for the incubation period, so you are correct if you say it would not spread that quickly withinj the population of 2 teams. But it is still not affected by having or not having body checking. That 1 player will infect those players he comes close too regardless of body checking.

 

[NotCommitted]

There's been infections in hockey teams in Finland, it's not usually been "everyone" that's infected, but 5-10 players or so usually I think, but sometimes more, depends how early it gets caught. I don't think hitting/no hitting would make much difference. Note that in Finland the covid situation has been better than most places, though it's getting worse atm.

 

[Jets 31]

There's been infections in hockey teams in Finland, it's not usually been "everyone" that's infected, but 5-10 players or so usually I think, but sometimes more, depends how early it gets caught. I don't think hitting/no hitting would make much difference. Note that in Finland the covid situation has been better than most places, though it's getting worse atm.

It's getting worse pretty much everywhere . On a side note that Perfetti dude looks like the 1b center the Jets have needed for a long time.

 

[Mariner]

More people testing positive, less people getting sick means the immune system is doing it's job. Lets get back to playing hockey. Looking forward to seeing Perfetti with the big boys to see what he can do. Always fun to play with new toys.

 

[ps241]

For those doubting his ability to play centre because of size skating etc. I really think that is overblown.

Kyle Wellwood was shorter, couldn’t skate as well as Perfetti, and had half his shot at best. As one of Kyle’s teammates said to me once can you imagine how good he could have been if he didn’t have such a low give a shit factor?

Wellwood was an effective centre because his hockey IQ was off the charts. Perfetti has an even better IQ IMO. Couple that with his lazer shot (goal scores touch) which forces D to cover him and opens up all the passing lanes.

Looking forward to his ascension and betting it will be at centre.

 

[Adam da bomb]

For those doubting his ability to play centre because of size skating etc. I really think that is overblown.

Kyle Wellwood was shorter, couldn’t skate as well as Perfetti, and had half his shot at best. As one of Kyle’s teammates said to me once can you imagine how good he could have been if he didn’t have such a low give a shit factor?

Wellwood was an effective centre because his hockey IQ was off the charts. Perfetti has an even better IQ IMO. Couple that with his lazer shot (goal scores touch) which forces D to cover him and opens up all the passing lanes.

Looking forward to his ascension and betting it will be at centre.

No one has ever argued Wellwood was more than a 4th line Center and an average to below average one at that. Is that really the player you want to compare Perfetti to?

 

[Weezeric]

No one has ever argued Wellwood was more than a 4th line Center and an average to below average one at that. Is that really the player you want to compare Perfetti to?

The Kyle Wellwood who never paced for less than 30 points a year and peaked at a 70+ point pace was a below average 4C?

We’re not talking about identical players here. Wellwood only had NHL success because of his hockey IQ. He had no physical gifts and had poor fitness. You put Wellwoods IQ with Ehlers physical gifts and that player is a first ballot hall of famer IMO

 

[GeorgeJETson]

For those doubting his ability to play centre because of size skating etc. I really think that is overblown.

Kyle Wellwood was shorter, couldn’t skate as well as Perfetti, and had half his shot at best. As one of Kyle’s teammates said to me once can you imagine how good he could have been if he didn’t have such a low give a shit factor?

Wellwood was an effective centre because his hockey IQ was off the charts. Perfetti has an even better IQ IMO. Couple that with his lazer shot (goal scores touch) which forces D to cover him and opens up all the passing lanes.

Looking forward to his ascension and betting it will be at centre.

This is a great point. I loved Kyle Wellwood because his hockey smarts were really awesome to see. Always wondered if he would make a great coach one day. Too bad his other abilities were not great for the NHL.

I really can't wait to see what Perfetti can do on the ice at the NHL level. I don't think it'll be soon, but I feel he isn't too far off either.

 

[LowLefty]

This player has the potential to turn a franchise into a contender -
Over the top? I don't think so - he has the major skills that make him one of the very few that are able to do this (potentially).
I can't wait to see this guy in the line up with our skilled wingers - it could be something very special.

 

[Buffdog]

Please lets stick to comparing Cole to ducky instead of Kyle fn Wellwod lol

 

[ps241]

The Kyle Wellwood who never paced for less than 30 points a year and peaked at a 70+ point pace was a below average 4C?

We’re not talking about identical players here. Wellwood only had NHL success because of his hockey IQ. He had no physical gifts and had poor fitness. You put Wellwoods IQ with Ehlers physical gifts and that player is a first ballot hall of famer IMO

This was 100% my point. Wellwood was 5’10” out of shape didn’t have a big shot....did not have allot of drive (huge understatement) and was still an effective 2nd line centre 100% because he had elite hockey IQ.

@Buffdog I hear you and while I think the Ducky comparison stylistically is even closer I wanted to emphasize how far elite hockey IQ can take you at the centre position.

 

[ps241]

This is a great point. I loved Kyle Wellwood because his hockey smarts were really awesome to see. Always wondered if he would make a great coach one day. Too bad his other abilities were not great for the NHL.

I really can't wait to see what Perfetti can do on the ice at the NHL level. I don't think it'll be soon, but I feel he isn't too far off either.

I remember how Wellwood was literally the only guy that meshed really well with EK9. He understood What Kane was going to do and figured out how to play off it and service Kane effectively.

 

[surixon]

I remember how Wellwood was literally the only guy that meshed really well with EK9. He understood What Kane was going to do and figured out how to play off it and service Kane effectively.

Yeah he was definitely one of Chevy's more unheralded FA signings. He did quite well for us in that second/third line center hole.

 

[Buffdog]

This was 100% my point. Wellwood was 5’10” out of shape didn’t have a big shot....did not have allot of drive (huge understatement) and was still an effective 2nd line centre 100% because he had elite hockey IQ.

@Buffdog I hear you and while I think the Ducky comparison stylistically is even closer I wanted to emphasize how far elite hockey IQ can take you at the centre position.

Fair enough. It certainly seems to be a "multiplier" in terms of other strengths/assets

Contrast that with a guy like E Kane that never seemed to read the fame very well. Always got by on physical tools.

This article by Patrick O'sullivan is heartbreaking, and isn't about hockey IQ but he touches on it


Black & Blue | By Patrick O'Sullivan

"Once you get to the pro level and you witness how fast the game moves, you finally realize that no amount of running or weight lifting or private lessons is going to change one simple question: Do you understand hockey? Do you really understand the game? Do you know where that puck is going next?"

 

[Adam da bomb]

The Kyle Wellwood who never paced for less than 30 points a year and peaked at a 70+ point pace was a below average 4C?

We’re not talking about identical players here. Wellwood only had NHL success because of his hockey IQ. He had no physical gifts and had poor fitness. You put Wellwoods IQ with Ehlers physical gifts and that player is a first ballot hall of famer IMO

No we must not be. Because when I looked at a Kyle wellwood his career high was 45 points. This one Kyle Wellwood Stats and News. As his career high is 47 in the 2011-12 season. He paced well in 2006-2007 but frankly I'm less concerned with pacing than totals. If he can't stay healthy long enough to play whole seasons why am I supposed to be impressed? Obviously I did not appreciate him enough.

 

[ps241]

Fair enough. It certainly seems to be a "multiplier" in terms of other strengths/assets

Contrast that with a guy like E Kane that never seemed to read the fame very well. Always got by on physical tools.

This article by Patrick O'sullivan is heartbreaking, and isn't about hockey IQ but he touches on it


Black & Blue | By Patrick O'Sullivan

"Once you get to the pro level and you witness how fast the game moves, you finally realize that no amount of running or weight lifting or private lessons is going to change one simple question: Do you understand hockey? Do you really understand the game? Do you know where that puck is going next?"

Jesus that is an absolutely heart wrenching read.

The dad deserves hard time in prison and his mom is no f***ing better. You let that shit happen to your 6 year old child and you do nothing?