Proposal: COL / ANA / FLA

[Richard88]

Remember when Hall broke 30 goals regularly?

Oh wait. He has done it once. Taylor Hall would be a terrible acquisition for the Avs.

To be honest, all of those ideas are not really smart moves and are exactly the way you end up closing the window quickly.

The only way it would work is if one of those is willing to take a Hossa special for one year.

Sakic has been extremely careful and diligent in how he's structured our cap. He had the chance to get Panarin for free but didn't want to give him more than 4 years term (until 2023) unless he lowered the AAV. But now Sakic is suddenly going to break the piggy bank and cap structure he's so meticulously built, for a guy who's only exceeded 55 points 3 times in 10 years and wants a big pay day at 29? Yeah I don't see it.

I might also mention that one of the consistent features of players Sakic has targeted in recent years it's players who have significant playoff experience. For example:

• Burakovsky (cup champion with WSH)
• Donskoi (cup final & conference final with SJ)
• Nieto (conference final with SJ)
• Namestnikov (conference final with TB)
• Cole (2x cup champion with PIT)
• Grubauer (cup champion with WSH)

• Bednar (Calder Cup champion as head coach before joining Avs)

Now, maybe Hall has just been unlucky to be on some bad teams in Edmonton, NJ, and Arizona and thereby only played 5 playoff games in his career. But the above trend is perhaps another indication that Sakic won't want to push too hard for Hall, unless maybe if it's a team-friendly deal in terms of cap hit AND term, though that idea just seems far-fetched. Based on the trend above, if Sakic does try to go for a big fish it'll more likely be Pietrangelo - a guy who's only missed 32 games in his entire career, and who's a leader and a recent cup champion.

That said, what I think is the likelier scenario this offseason is that Sakic targets players via trade instead of free agency. In trades he can get players on manageable terms that won't have to be signed to big money for longer than he wants. For example, a trade with Tampa Bay for one of their forwards makes sense given their situation. Killorn (UFA in 2023) or Palat (UFA in 2022, though he'd have to wave a full NTC) would be good fits contract wise. Rakell (UFA in 2022) would also be a good fit contract wise, but due to his caphit being so low his trade value will probably be prohibitively high compared to the value we can get via trade elsewhere.

 

[Brett44]

For a 2 LW
Granlund at 6m for 6 years (app.)
Killorn at 4.5 for 3 years
Palat at 5.3 for 2 years
Toffoli at 6m for 6 years (app.)

are better than
Hall at 8m(less than he ask) for 6 years(app.)


points/$

 

[Richard88]

For a 2 LW
Granlund at 6m for 6 years (app.)
Killorn at 4.5 for 3 years
Palat at 5.3 for 2 years
Toffoli at 6m for 6 years (app.)

are better than
Hall at 8m(less than he ask) for 6 years(app.)


points/$

I'm not so sure I want to be the one handing out that contract based on how he's played this year.

Also Hall will ask for more than $8m, probably closer to $10m x 7 years if it's with someone like Arizona who's desperate for him. $48m (8x6) is a whole lot less than $70m so it would be hard for Hall to say no to the latter.

 

[Brett44]

I'm not so sure I want to be the one handing out that contract based on how he's played this year.

Also Hall will ask for more than $8m, probably closer to $10m x 7 years if it's with someone like Arizona who's desperate for him. $48m (8x6) is a whole lot less than $70m so it would be hard for Hall to say no to the latter.

Yes i know Hall want 10m but don't deserve it. And may be if he want winning one time in his career he should accept less. For Granlund i'm confident than he can bounce back, too much talent for not. And a with him we should have a good playmaker on the 2nd line. But my 1st choice is Killorn . It's depend the cost for him.

 

[avsfan09]

RHD and elite talent (likely not getting the elite talent for Rakell unless they hit a home run on a draft pick). Assuming Rakell doesn't bring back a 1st line/1st pair player, Ducks have Zegras/Steel/Lundestrom at C, Comtois/Jones/Heinen on LW, Terry/Milano on RW, Lindholm/Fowler/Djoos/Larsson/Mahura for LD, Gibson in net for a while. Outside of Zegras, all of those guys have seen NHL time and should be NHL level players (of differing levels) in 5 years. On RD, the Ducks have Manson and Gubranson (both will be mid 30's in 5 years) and there really hasn't been a player that has shown they can take over for those two. Zegras is the only guy on that list that probably has the potential to be elite, but even that isn't guaranteed and hopefully a prospect or several break out and become solid or better NHL players. This is assuming Getz, Silf, Henrique are gone in 5 years.

Interesting. The Avs have Helleson and Timmins really on RD and guys like Kovalenko, Ranta, Kaut and Bowers as expendables although their values all differ. I personally want to kee Timmins but if we traded him for Rakell I wouldn’t be adding our first but he’d fit your description as a potential top pair guy but his injury past is a risk.

Just for wild fun here lol.
Would you guys do
Manson+Rakell for Byram, 1st, Johnson and Jost?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

As a Ducks fan, I doubt COL has any interest in moving Byram for Rakell. That is, unless they really want to go all in for the Cup. Doesn't make sense to me based on where they are in their window.

Timmins + 1st would be solid value normally, but who knows how Rakell's value has gone up with the new cap situation.

I don't think its gone up much more than what his trade deadline value was this year.

Sure the cap situation, but you also lose a playoff run out of him.... id call that pretty even.

Avs arnt really in cap trouble over the next 2 seasons, so the biggest asset in a rakell trade isn't really valid from an Avs perspective. Teams with cap issues are the places well get most value for Rakell… but how many of those are contenders, that have the assets to move, and are willing to pay up for rakell? Id assume the answer is a handful.

Timmins + 1st would be a great value... but I feel like the avs will struggle to pay that considering cap hit isn't a huge issue for them... I think it would be a slight overpay in their opinion, specially because Timmins is likely a player that will make the team for them next year.

1st + Bowers + helleson… might be a diff route to take... avs get to keep Timmins

Ducks add a center/RHD and another 1st rounder.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Interesting. The Avs have Helleson and Timmins really on RD and guys like Kovalenko, Ranta, Kaut and Bowers as expendables although their values all differ. I personally want to kee Timmins but if we traded him for Rakell I wouldn’t be adding our first but he’d fit your description as a potential top pair guy but his injury past is a risk.

Just for wild fun here lol.
Would you guys do
Manson+Rakell for Byram, 1st, Johnson and Jost?

Hm that's a tough 1... guess it really depends on how you feel about Johnson... I feel like 6 x 3 years is rough for someone like EJ.... at the same time its not like we will be contending during that time frame so if holding on to 18 m in money to get Byram as part of the trade it might be worth it. How did you break down the value of the trade out of curiosity?

Johnson + Byram for Manson?
1st + jost for Rakell?

Id say ducks win 1st part, Avs win 2nd part.

 

[avsfan09]

Hm that's a tough 1... guess it really depends on how you feel about Johnson... I feel like 6 x 3 years is rough for someone like EJ.... at the same time its not like we will be contending during that time frame so if holding on to 18 m in money to get Byram as part of the trade it might be worth it. How did you break down the value of the trade out of curiosity?

Johnson + Byram for Manson?
1st + jost for Rakell?

Id say ducks win 1st part, Avs win 2nd part.

I knew it’d take a blue chip and you would need a placeholder RD. To me I think Anaheim is slightly over paying here for a high end piece that’s hard to get in a trade but because of the fit of the Ana players I don’t mind giving him up because Manson would be great for Girard. The question to me is Jost an add that you would want or do we have to swap in someone else?

 

[Richard88]

Hm that's a tough 1... guess it really depends on how you feel about Johnson... I feel like 6 x 3 years is rough for someone like EJ.... at the same time its not like we will be contending during that time frame so if holding on to 18 m in money to get Byram as part of the trade it might be worth it. How did you break down the value of the trade out of curiosity?

Johnson + Byram for Manson?
1st + jost for Rakell?

Id say ducks win 1st part, Avs win 2nd part.

The only way Byram gets moved is if we get a young 1st line forward back like Kyle Connor. Stapling him to Johnson and getting two non-elite pieces back would be a terrible trade for Colorado.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

The only way Byram gets moved is if we get a young 1st line forward back like Kyle Connor. Stapling him to Johnson and getting two non-elite pieces back would be a terrible trade for Colorado.

Oh I agree I was just responding to the original post... I doubt Byram is moved... and I doubt a team like Winnipeg moves Connor for Byram.

 

[Gliff]

I knew it’d take a blue chip and you would need a placeholder RD. To me I think Anaheim is slightly over paying here for a high end piece that’s hard to get in a trade but because of the fit of the Ana players I don’t mind giving him up because Manson would be great for Girard. The question to me is Jost an add that you would want or do we have to swap in someone else?

Personally I take that deal for many reasons. I doubt the Ducks do. They love Manson more then you love your kids.

Jost doesn't do much for me. Is EJ a cap dump for the Avs? Wouldn't you rather move someone like Timmins then EJ? I'm actually asking by the way. I don't know the ins and outs of the Avs situation.

 

[avsfan09]

Personally I take that deal for many reasons. I doubt the Ducks do. They love Manson more then you love your kids.

Jost doesn't do much for me. Is EJ a cap dump for the Avs? Wouldn't you rather move someone like Timmins then EJ? I'm actually asking by the way. I don't know the ins and outs of the Avs situation.

Yes he is. But I figured you need a replacement Rd if you lose Manson and since you are rebuilding you could afford him. What about Helleson? 2nd round pick Rd. Could be a Carlo type defenseman.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

The only way Byram gets moved is if we get a young 1st line forward back like Kyle Connor. Stapling him to Johnson and getting two non-elite pieces back would be a terrible trade for Colorado.

The Avs were top 5 in scoring this season, despite half the team missing essentially half of the season with injuries, so I don't really see a desperate need for Connor. I'd rather keep our 18 year old with 1D potential, and see if we can't build the best defensive core in the league, with 2 "top pairings".

 

[milehigh11]

When is the last time we saw two rookies for a contender’s top four D?

This year when Graves who only played 24 games before this year and has been in the top 4 with Makar.

 

[Richard88]

The Avs were top 5 in scoring this season, despite half the team missing essentially half of the season with injuries, so I don't really see a desperate need for Connor. I'd rather keep our 18 year old with 1D potential, and see if we can't build the best defensive core in the league, with 2 "top pairings".

I agree, I think our team already has the offense that Connor would be a luxury. However, I think there are very valid reasons on both sides of the argument.

Fwiw I made this capfriendly AGM roster yesterday to see how things would play out if we did a Byram-Connor trade. Cap-wise removing an ELC Dman makes things a little bit challenging from 2021 onwards, but not to the extent that it wouldn't be workable.

 

[CanadienShark]

Coleman and Goodrow cost a premium because Tampa are desperate for players on low cap hits. Their trade options are severely limited because they HAVE to target players with low cap hits. Conversely, Colorado doesn't have cap problems at all, so they won't be pressured to pay high assets for players on low cap hits.

There's no reason to panic and make short-sighted trade moves. Colorado are set up well to contend for the next few years.

Byram was fairly unanimously considered Canada's best Dman at the WJC, yes.

Brayden Schenn isn't a prospect, he's 28...

I think you're missing the point. Years ago, Brayden Schenn was regarded as the best prospect in the world, according to Hockey's Future (old HFBoards rankings). I think the poster you've quoted is suggesting that just because Byram is considered the best prospect in the world by some, it doesn't mean he'll be a superstar; see Brayden Schenn.

 

[Richard88]

I think you're missing the point. Years ago, Brayden Schenn was regarded as the best prospect in the world, according to Hockey's Future (old HFBoards rankings). I think the poster you've quoted is suggesting that just because Byram is considered the best prospect in the world by some, it doesn't mean he'll be a superstar; see Brayden Schenn.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Gliff]

Yes he is. But I figured you need a replacement Rd if you lose Manson and since you are rebuilding you could afford him. What about Helleson? 2nd round pick Rd. Could be a Carlo type defenseman.

It is true we would need a replacement RD. I think I would rather have an NHL ready guy. Helleson is probably 2 years away, minimum right?

6 mil for EJ may be a little much, especially when it may impact our ability to resign Hampus in 2 years.

 

[avsfan09]

It is true we would need a replacement RD. I think I would rather have an NHL ready guy. Helleson is probably 2 years away, minimum right?

6 mil for EJ may be a little much, especially when it may impact our ability to resign Hampus in 2 years.

Buy him out?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I agree, I think our team already has the offense that Connor would be a luxury. However, I think there are very valid reasons on both sides of the argument.

Fwiw I made this capfriendly AGM roster yesterday to see how things would play out if we did a Byram-Connor trade. Cap-wise removing an ELC Dman makes things a little bit challenging from 2021 onwards, but not to the extent that it wouldn't be workable.

I agree that there are valid reasons why the Avs would want someone like Connor, but I'd much rather stack our blueline with elite young talent than add a little more firepower to our offense. We aren't going to have too many more opportunities to draft a kid like Byram. If we trade Byram, our options to fill out our blueline get a lot more limited, and the quality decreases significantly. On the other hand, we're already top 5 in scoring and should get more offense simply by everyone staying healthy. We also have other options to add a little more offense, including our more promising forward prospects (Kaut, Newhook, Bowers, etc). For me, it's a simple decision, and the cap doesn't enter into it at all.

 

[McJedi]

Hm that's a tough 1... guess it really depends on how you feel about Johnson... I feel like 6 x 3 years is rough for someone like EJ.... at the same time its not like we will be contending during that time frame so if holding on to 18 m in money to get Byram as part of the trade it might be worth it. How did you break down the value of the trade out of curiosity?

Johnson + Byram for Manson?
1st + jost for Rakell?

Id say ducks win 1st part, Avs win 2nd part.

Johnson isn't Bobby Ryan or Seabrook. He still plays 20 minutes a game for the Avs. is he overpaid? Yes. Is he a AHL level albitross? Not even close. He's just a $4MM per year guy making $6MM per year. You don't trade the best affiliated prospect in the NHL and him to get back another EJ in Manson (that is an absurd trade proposal). Esp since, as you say, the Avs have no cap issues so overpaying a bit for Johnson isn't a problem for them.

A 1st and Jost for Rakell. I'd be all over that as the Avs.

 

[dracom]

Johnson isn't Bobby Ryan or Seabrook. He still plays 20 minutes a game for the Avs. is he overpaid? Yes. Is he a AHL level albitross? Not even close. He's just a $4MM per year guy making $6MM per year. You don't trade the best affiliated prospect in the NHL and him to get back another EJ in Manson (that is an absurd trade proposal). Esp since, as you say, the Avs have no cap issues so overpaying a bit for Johnson isn't a problem for them.

A 1st and Jost for Rakell. I'd be all over that as the Avs.

of course you would, a late 1st and most likely bust for a cheap, good 2nd line forward at worst. Avs fans need to stop trying to dump Jost on other teams, no one wants him.

 

[Spazkat]

For a 2 LW
Granlund at 6m for 6 years (app.)
Killorn at 4.5 for 3 years
Palat at 5.3 for 2 years
Toffoli at 6m for 6 years (app.)

are better than
Hall at 8m(less than he ask) for 6 years(app.)


points/$

I can't quite get past this part... you'd rather pay 6M for a 40 something point player than have Taylor Hall for 2M more?

 

[McJedi]

of course you would, a late 1st and most likely bust for a cheap, good 2nd line forward at worst. Avs fans need to stop trying to dump Jost on other teams, no one wants him.

I didn't propose that, so don't jump down my throat. Some Duck fan did. And I said... sounds great. But his trade idea doesn't sound realistic to me either. Not as nonsensical as EJ and Byram for Manson, but a loss of a trade for the mighty ducks of Anaheim.

The Avs don't need Rakell. He'd be a middle six forward in Colorado. Very little PP time and none of it on the 1st PP unit that stays on the ice for like 1:40 seconds each PP (which bugs me but that's another topic for another time). Rakell playing JTs wing isn't a guy that gets you 65 points. He doesn't even get you 50 points. He gets 15 minutes of ice time per game and they make him kill PPs or whatnot like a bottom six forward. Someone else would use him in their top 6 and he'd get PP time. So they'd pay more for him than the Avs would. Factor in another team in worse shape with the cap and his contract helps team. Doesn't move the needle a bit for Colorado.

 

[McJedi]

I can't quite get past this part... you'd rather pay 6M for a 40 something point player than have Taylor Hall for 2M more?

If the 2020 UFA class thinks they are about to step into a free agent frenzy, they are sorely mistaken. I cannot think of many years worse than this summer to be a UFA. Flat cap that was unexpected, big escrow jump for the foreseeable future. It's going to be a rough and disappointing summer for a lot of these guys. But not a bad time to be a buyer given it won't be competitive.