Proposal: COL / ANA / FLA

[Gurglesons]

Yeah I agree with that. One caveat though is that he probably wouldn't get as much PP time with Colorado as he'd only be on the 2nd PP unit.

PP1:
-----------------Landeskog ---------------
Mackinnon ----- Kadri ----- Rantanen
----------------- Makar -------------------

PP2:
----------------- Compher ----------------
Rakell ------ Jost/Kaut ----- Burakovsky
------------- Girard/Byram --------------

Rakell’s damage is largely coming at ES.

 

[Gliff]

As a Ducks fan, I doubt COL has any interest in moving Byram for Rakell. That is, unless they really want to go all in for the Cup. Doesn't make sense to me based on where they are in their window.

Timmins + 1st would be solid value normally, but who knows how Rakell's value has gone up with the new cap situation.

 

[Richard88]

Rakell’s damage is largely coming at ES.

22% of his goals and 28% of assists have been on the PP.

I think it would be reasonable to expect a slight drop in PP points if he wasn't on PP1 since Colorado usually give the bulk of PP time to the first unit.

However, any such loss in production would likely be offset by the fact that he'd likely be playing on the 2nd line where he wouldn't be up against the opponents' best players, thus putting up more points at ES.

 

[Gurglesons]

22% of his goals and 28% of assists have been on the PP.

I think it would be reasonable to expect a slight drop in PP points if he wasn't on PP1 since Colorado usually give the bulk of PP time to the first unit.

However, any such loss in production would likely be offset by the fact that he'd likely be playing on the 2nd line where he wouldn't be up against the opponents' best players, thus putting up more points at ES.

View attachment 344286

So would you not say his damage is largely coming at EV?

 

[lwvs84]

Yeah I agree with that. One caveat though is that he probably wouldn't get as much PP time with Colorado as he'd only be on the 2nd PP unit.

PP1:
-----------------Landeskog ---------------
Mackinnon ----- Kadri ----- Rantanen
----------------- Makar -------------------

PP2:
----------------- Compher ----------------
Rakell ------ Jost/Kaut ----- Burakovsky
------------- Girard/Byram --------------

To be fair, even with reduced time, he'd probably see an increase in production per minute on the PP. Anaheim's is TERRIBLE.

 

[Richard88]

So would you not say his damage is largely coming at EV?

Well yeah...

 

[Patagonia]

As a Ducks fan, I doubt COL has any interest in moving Byram for Rakell. That is, unless they really want to go all in for the Cup. Doesn't make sense to me based on where they are in their window.

Timmins + 1st would be solid value normally, but who knows how Rakell's value has gone up with the new cap situation.

I really doubt Sakic would make this deal. RHD is weak depth area after moving Barrie. Timmins is expected to fill the 2nd line role. Rakell would be an incredible addition on the 2nd line, but moving a player without a replacement is not the type of trade that would happen. Hall is likely the target without sacrificing prospects/picks.

 

[avsfan09]

I'm not going to post value or if Colorado should/shouldn't trade certain players/picks, but those saying that Rakell isn't the same player he was when he scored 30 need to realize he's a COMPLIMENTARY winger. He'll put up points relative to his linemates. His production is down because the whole team is down. If you put him on a team with guys that can draw defense off him, he'll go back to what he was. Right now, he's one of the best offensive players on the team and defenses focus in on him. Rakell would probably do very well in Colorado or Tampa or Edmonton where he wouldn't be the best player on his line (assuming the coaches play him with one of the top players).

I’d love him on the team. Just not at the price of Byram or Newhook. Any counter proposals you would accept by chance?

 

[Gliff]

I really doubt Sakic would make this deal. RHD is weak depth area after moving Barrie. Timmins is expected to fill the 2nd line role. Rakell would be an incredible addition on the 2nd line, but moving a player without a replacement is not the type of trade that would happen. Hall is likely the target without sacrificing prospects/picks.

I mean, that’s gonna cost you 8 mil minimum. Is that even smart when you have so many young players needing raises soon?

 

[Patagonia]

I mean, that’s gonna cost you 8 mil minimum. Is that even smart when you have so many young players needing raises soon?

Hall is likely $9.5M and significantly better player.

Rakell is signed for 2 seasons and likely ask $6.5M+ (Kreider comparable). There is no guarantee resigning and the cost of players in the trade.

Hall signing was promoted on AVs fan sites which makes a lot of sense. They suggested UFAs leaving Nam/Nieto, with a combined reduction of approx. $6.5M. Hall would likely cost another $3M and they still keep Timmins and 1st. Hall is only 2 years older than Rakell. AVs can also pursue Dadonov, Taffoli or Granlund.

AVs have plenty of options. No chance the core prospects: Byram, Newhook, Timmins or Kaut becomes available. Doubtful, a deal can be made that would be reasonable for both teams.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hall is likely $9.5M and significantly better player.

Rakell is signed for 2 seasons and likely ask $6.5M+ (Kreider comparable). There is no guarantee resigning and the cost of players in the trade.

Hall signing was promoted on AVs fan sites which makes a lot of sense. They suggested UFAs leaving Nam/Nieto, with a combined reduction of approx. $6.5M. Hall would likely cost another $3M and they still keep Timmins and 1st. Hall is only 2 years older than Rakell. AVs can also pursue Dadonov, Taffoli or Granlund.

AVs have plenty of options. No chance the core prospects: Byram, Newhook, Timmins or Kaut becomes available. Doubtful, a deal can be made that would be reasonable for both teams.

Remember when Hall broke 30 goals regularly?

Oh wait. He has done it once. Taylor Hall would be a terrible acquisition for the Avs.

To be honest, all of those ideas are not really smart moves and are exactly the way you end up closing the window quickly.

The only way it would work is if one of those is willing to take a Hossa special for one year.

 

[lwvs84]

I’d love him on the team. Just not at the price of Byram or Newhook. Any counter proposals you would accept by chance?

I'm not all that familiar with Colorado prospects/young players, but it would definitely cost more than your 1st rounder (which currently sits at 28 overall?). I'd guess that Rakell's value in terms of a pure draft pick would be around mid teens? So you'd have to bridge that gap. But again, my values could be way off.

 

[avsfan09]

I'm not all that familiar with Colorado prospects/young players, but it would definitely cost more than your 1st rounder (which currently sits at 28 overall?). I'd guess that Rakell's value in terms of a pure draft pick would be around mid teens? So you'd have to bridge that gap. But again, my values could be way off.

What does Anaheim need? They have pretty good prospect depth tbh. I think Meloche deserves a shot somewhere myself. He’d be a small add but someone I’d toss in. Still think he can be a solid two way defender with some nastiness. We obviously would include our first.
Maybe our first, Meloche and a plus. We’d have to figure out that plus I guess.

 

[McJedi]

As a Ducks fan, I doubt COL has any interest in moving Byram for Rakell. That is, unless they really want to go all in for the Cup. Doesn't make sense to me based on where they are in their window.

Timmins + 1st would be solid value normally, but who knows how Rakell's value has gone up with the new cap situation.

Byram buys a much better player than Rakell. They'd target someone like Kyle Conner if Byram is the big piece going the other way.

 

[ljb4]

What does Anaheim need? They have pretty good prospect depth tbh. I think Meloche deserves a shot somewhere myself. He’d be a small add but someone I’d toss in. Still think he can be a solid two way defender with some nastiness. We obviously would include our first.
Maybe our first, Meloche and a plus. We’d have to figure out that plus I guess.

The Avs would have to get Meloche back from San Jose. They moved him for Antoine Bibeau at the start of the season. I guess that tells you how low his value is.

 

[McJedi]

What does Anaheim need? They have pretty good prospect depth tbh. I think Meloche deserves a shot somewhere myself. He’d be a small add but someone I’d toss in. Still think he can be a solid two way defender with some nastiness. We obviously would include our first.
Maybe our first, Meloche and a plus. We’d have to figure out that plus I guess.

Meloche? As in Nicholas Meloche? They guy we traded to San Jose a year ago for some scrub 4th string goalie.

 

[McJedi]

Remember when Hall broke 30 goals regularly?

Oh wait. He has done it once. Taylor Hall would be a terrible acquisition for the Avs.

To be honest, all of those ideas are not really smart moves and are exactly the way you end up closing the window quickly.

The only way it would work is if one of those is willing to take a Hossa special for one year.

Oh that Avs window. Closing fast given the age of that dumpster fire of a team. Makar and Girard already peaked at age...check notes... 21. Byram at 18, Newhook at 19, Timmins at 21 are on the downside of their primes. The Avs have the ole timers like Rantanan who is 23 and the soon to be dead of old age MacKinnon at age 24. Burakovsky retired at 25 to collect social security in Sweden and Landy was sent to the nursing home involuntarily because he's 27. Graves can barely move given he's 24. Nuke turned 25 so back of the shed for him. Close up shop Avs. And forget UFA in a flat cap year where the Avs have the 4th most cap space of anyone. Why would someone join this team when they could go to Ottawa and take a Canadian discount... Or the favorable tax structure (Jersey) and lovely Buffalo weather and add Columbus to that too? All Colorado has is low state taxes, sunny weather and mountains. So many better choices for a UFA than that over the hill Avs team with zero future.

The Avs window is closed unless they trade for Rakell at 140 cents on the dollar. Do that it's Cups for everyone in Denver!

 

[avsfan09]

The Avs would have to get Meloche back from San Jose. They moved him for Antoine Bibeau at the start of the season. I guess that tells you how low his value is.

I have the memory of a goldfish. I still like him tbh. Maybe they were giving him a shot somewhere else. So what level add , would a guy like Kaut work?

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh that Avs window. Closing fast given the age of that dumpster fire of a team. Makar and Girard already peaked at age...check notes... 21. Byram at 18, Newhook at 19, Timmins at 21 are on the downside of their primes. The Avs have the ole timers like Rantanan who is 23 and the soon to be dead of old age MacKinnon at age 24. Burakovsky retired at 25 to collect social security in Sweden and Landy was sent to the nursing home involuntarily because he's 27. Graves can barely move given he's 24. Nuke turned 25 so back of the shed for him. Close up shop Avs. And forget UFA in a flat cap year where the Avs have the 4th most cap space of anyone. Why would someone join this team when they could go to Ottawa and take a Canadian discount... Or the favorable tax structure (Jersey) and lovely Buffalo weather? So many better choices for a UFA than that over the hill Avs team with zero future.

The Avs window is closed unless they trade for Rakell at 140 cents on the dollar. Do that it's Cups for everyone in Denver!

Spending 8-9 million on Taylor Hall was what I was inferring.

I guess if they can get him a one year deal as I outlined. I also always love when teams throw in players that have yet to play an NHL game as a reason why they are contenders. Seems to be a lot of chest puffing for a team that has yet to do really much of anything.

And I’ve been backing the Avs for years on the Pens board tbh.

 

[McJedi]

Spending 8-9 million on Taylor Hall was what I was inferring.

You mean a 1st line left wing (Avs are short left wingers) with a strong transition game and drives possession about as good as about anyone. The former Hart winner that skates the same-ish speed as MacKinnon and Makar and would be opposite Rantanan on the 1st line. He'd never fit. Makes no sense and he costs no draft picks or players off the roster to acquire either. Just some billionaire's money.

Perhaps that Avs need a slow it down, cycling brute to win a few fights each night. Or maybe some winger off one of the worst teams in the NHL coming off two seasons that were quite a bit less impressive than his career best around 2017. Throw him on the 3rd line and the Avs have what it takes!

 

[avsfan09]

Meloche? As in Nicholas Meloche? They guy we traded to San Jose a year ago for some scrub 4th string goalie.

I thought he deserved a call up tbh. Maybe he’s a nothing, or maybe he got passed over by Timmins.

Also should have stated he was really a throw in. Kaut is all I’d be comfortable adding. I like Bowers and Timmins too much and they are more needed.

 

[Gurglesons]

You mean a 1st line left wing (Avs are short left wingers) with a strong transition game and drives possession about as good as about anyone. The former Hart winner that skates the same-ish speed as MacKinnon and Makar and would be opposite Rantanan on the 1st line. He'd never fit. Makes no sense and he costs no draft picks or players off the roster to acquire either. Just some billionaire's money.

Perhaps that Avs need a slow it down, cycling brute to win a few fights each night. Or maybe some winger off one of the worst teams in the NHL coming off two seasons that were quite a bit less impressive than his career best around 2017.

Hall will be 29 at the start of that contract though. How does that fit with the Colorado core if he wants massive term?

I also see no reality in which Hall and MacK work together. Both puck hounds. You could probably build a pretty solid 2nd line with him and Kadri tho’

 

[McJedi]

Hall will be 29 at the start of that contract though. How does that fit with the Colorado core if he wants massive term?

I also see no reality in which Hall and MacK work together. Both puck hounds. You could probably build a pretty solid 2nd line with him and Kadri tho’

Yeah.. aside from those years Hall put up 50+ assists. Dude just shoots and shoots and shoots. Mackinnon hates passing. Sure he's a 100 point player, but it's all goals. Dude averages 90 something goals a year, but like 5 2nd assists. He's a trash teammate.

Rackell. Now that's the guy you build a franchise around. He's good for 20 goals and 30 assists putting up so so points playing key ice time on an awful team in a role he'd never have on a good team that would see his points nose dive with little to no PP time and a 3rd line C feeding him.

Hall's biggest concern is his injury history. But he's pretty good hockey player when he's on the ice.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah.. aside from those years Hall put up 50+ assists. Dude just shoots and shoots and shoots. Mackinnon hates passing. Sure he's a 100 point player, but it's all goals. Dude averages 90 something goals a year, but like 5 2nd assists. He's a trash teammate.

Rackell. Now that's the guy you build a franchise around. He's good for 20 goals and 30 assists putting up so so points playing key ice time on an awful team in a role he'd never have on a good team that would see his points nose dive with little to no PP time and a 3rd line C feeding him.

Hall's biggest concern is his injury history. But he's pretty good hockey player when he's on the ice.

You seem a little upset.

Rakell was Anaheim’s best forward outside of Silf on the way to a WCF. Put up 30 goals that year and put up 60+ points the next season. Perfect utility for an elite center.

Hall is an elite wing. Good at carrying his own line regardless of a C.

Typically players like Hall don’t play well with elite Cs. It happens for sure, but given the contract he likely will be asking for I dunno why the Avs would sign up for that.

 

[lwvs84]

What does Anaheim need? They have pretty good prospect depth tbh. I think Meloche deserves a shot somewhere myself. He’d be a small add but someone I’d toss in. Still think he can be a solid two way defender with some nastiness. We obviously would include our first.
Maybe our first, Meloche and a plus. We’d have to figure out that plus I guess.

RHD and elite talent (likely not getting the elite talent for Rakell unless they hit a home run on a draft pick). Assuming Rakell doesn't bring back a 1st line/1st pair player, Ducks have Zegras/Steel/Lundestrom at C, Comtois/Jones/Heinen on LW, Terry/Milano on RW, Lindholm/Fowler/Djoos/Larsson/Mahura for LD, Gibson in net for a while. Outside of Zegras, all of those guys have seen NHL time and should be NHL level players (of differing levels) in 5 years. On RD, the Ducks have Manson and Gubranson (both will be mid 30's in 5 years) and there really hasn't been a player that has shown they can take over for those two. Zegras is the only guy on that list that probably has the potential to be elite, but even that isn't guaranteed and hopefully a prospect or several break out and become solid or better NHL players. This is assuming Getz, Silf, Henrique are gone in 5 years.