Cogliano v Oshie

[oil slick]

This has kind of decended into Oil fans vs Blues fans... ah well. hopefully both are good.

From all I hear, Oshie will be great.

I'm also very happy with Cogs (the Marchant comparison is out to lunch... Cogs has shown more offensive acumen in 20 games than Marchant ever did as an Oiler - Cogs is actually a pretty slick playmaker and puck handler... no real shot, but oh well).

 

[Sammy*]

Replace "Oshie" with "Stamkos", "Tavares", "van Reimsdyk", and so forth and so on - and then ask how much sense that statement really makes.

Yeah, Oshie is the same quality of prospect as Stamkos, Tavares",& Van Reimsdyk.
The hyperbole on Oshie is frankly stupid as is the suggestion that Cogliano isnt at least on a par with they guy., as well as "One quarter-season from Cogs proves little to me"," Not knocking Cogs but his name shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Oshie","As for who has come farther at this point progression wise it is definately Oshie, and that is a fact", "I do find it humorous that there are people who thought Oshie was a bad pick in 2005 and still think he's going to struggle mightily in the NHL [if he makes it at all], despite everything he's shown in college. That crowd has thinned out quite a bit over the last 2+ years, but there's still quite a few naysayers ... and some of us on the other side can't help but laugh about it" (you do realize that all sorts of kids have performed in the NCAA & have been dogs thereaftyer, dont you?).

Funny, very funny.

 

[Kotton]

The bolded phrase speaks volumes. By your own admission, you have maybe 2 years of experience watching this sport, but have formed an opinion and are ready to impress it on everyone else ... so yes, you have jumped to a conclusion.

No thanks - I'll take my 15+ years of following this sport and the comments I've gathered along the way from people who've watched guys play in high school, major juniors, and college and give it [considerably] more weight - and even then, I'd prefer to actually let both guys play on the same stage for more than 2 years before leaping to any conclusions.

So when the two were in the NCAA it was fair to compare them? It was fair to assume Oshie would be a top line player and Cogliano would be Todd Marchant 2.0, but now that Cogs is in the NHL playing extremely well at ES, and with some PK and PP time and Oshie is still in the NCCA we can no longer compare the two? Oshie can be hailed as the second coming of christ and Cogliano is just ok?

The endless lols supplied by people "in the know" on this board are great stress relievers.

**** DISCLAIMER *****
I am not implying Cogliano is a better prospect than Oshie, I just it hilarious how the standards for how and when a player can be judged are swapped to suit the needs of a certain player/teams fans.

 

[Sammy*]

- and even then, I'd prefer to actually let both guys play on the same stage for more than 2 years before leaping to any conclusions.

Apparently you have though. You say laugh at people who questioned the Oshie pick back then & still do.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I think both players made great descions about their future last year.

Cogliano had nothing really left to learn or prove at the NCAA level. His next best step was to see how his tools translated at the next level. He is going to be a scorer that has speed. His role, IMO will be a defined one. Play solid two ways.

Oshie on the other hand. Stayed in the NCAA with only one goal, to win it all. You cannot teach perseverance, hard work, dedicaton and having the weight of the Sioux nation on your shoulders. It is going to make him a hard working leader, that come play off time is going to be a bear to deal with. His role in the NHL is going to be do what ever it takes to win. Grinder, scorer, fighter, leader... Whether he wins or losses it all the this year. His experiance IMO will surpass what he could have learned in the NHL this year. The Blues missed out on a good Oshie last year. But they will get an even better one next year.

So who is better? We are talking about a guy that is not in the NHL and another that has been in a hand full of games. I do not think either team would straight up trade either one for each other. Both players are coming along just fine. And nether have plateaued yet. So let them play.

 

[ChokeOnOil]

The bolded phrase speaks volumes. By your own admission, you have maybe 2 years of experience watching this sport, but have formed an opinion and are ready to impress it on everyone else ... so yes, you have jumped to a conclusion.

No thanks - I'll take my 15+ years of following this sport and the comments I've gathered along the way from people who've watched guys play in high school, major juniors, and college and give it [considerably] more weight - and even then, I'd prefer to actually let both guys play on the same stage for more than 2 years before leaping to any conclusions.

Nope, I've been wathing hokey all my life, I just started watching it in depth two years ago. But hey, thats fine, would you just like to show me where I have jumped to a conclusion? I'd love to see, so as too not make that mistake again. Because you keep saying I have, but I don't see where, seeing as I have not said either is better, just that Cogliano has taken the first step and Oshie has hosen not to. Would you also like to show me where I have "impressed" my opinion on anyone? I'd really love to see that. It's great that an Admin is telling me that just saying my opinion is considered impressing it on people.

Thats your choice, you however made a conclusion, een if you won't admit it, that Oshie is better even when he hasn't done jak at the NHL level. Thats cool though.

 

[TK 421]

So when the two were in the NCAA it was fair to compare them? It was fair to assume Oshie would be a top line player and Cogliano would be Todd Marchant 2.0, but now that Cogs is in the NHL playing extremely well at ES, and with some PK and PP time and Oshie is still in the NCCA we can no longer compare the two? Oshie can be hailed as the second coming of christ and Cogliano is just ok?

The endless lols supplied by people "in the know" on this board are great stress relievers.

**** DISCLAIMER *****
I am not implying Cogliano is a better prospect than Oshie, I just it hilarious how the standards for how and when a player can be judged are swapped to suit the needs of a certain player/teams fans.

Actually, Irish IS in the know but he's not going to waste his time telling you that just to prove a point. I however, have no problem doing so. In any case, the Blues didn't make it a secret with John Davidson, Jarmo Kekalainen and Al MacInnis all publicly stating their goal of bringing Oshie into the fold for this season despite knowing T.J.'s plans to return to UND. I've already listed in great detail all the ways they rolled out the red carpet for him so it wasn't really in the know info anyways but since you mentioned it...............

 

[Kotton]

Actually, Irish IS in the know but he's not going to waste his time telling you that just to prove a point. I however, have no problem doing so. In any case, the Blues didn't make it a secret with John Davidson, Jarmo Kekalainen and Al MacInnis all publicly stating their goal of bringing Oshie into the fold for this season despite knowing T.J.'s plans to return to UND. I've already listed in great detail all the ways they rolled out the red carpet for him so it wasn't really in the know info anyways but since you mentioned it...............

I see, they had every intention of bringing a prospect along further into the organization and giving him some playing time at the next level. I didn't realize that intent by management played that big of a role in the skill level and the ability of a prospect to reach his potential.

 

[toastman344*]

Remind me again which one's in the NHL ? Ah Yes ...that would be COGS !!!!

 

[Transported Upstater]

Remind me again which one's in the NHL ? Ah Yes ...that would be COGS !!!!

By that logic, you'd rather have Cogliano than Tavares.

 

[Valic]

By that logic, you'd rather have Cogliano than Tavares.

Noone knows if Tavares is going to be any good still.....

 

[40oz]

By that logic, you'd rather have Cogliano than Tavares.

No logic allowed

ex:

Noone knows if Tavares is going to be any good still.....

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Apparently you have though. You say laugh at people who questioned the Oshie pick back then & still do.

Shall I go back to 2005 and dig up post after post after post of people who SWORE TO GOD that Oshie wouldn't do squat in the NCAA? Shall I dig up post after post of people who still SWEAR TO GOD that Oshie won't do squat in the NHL? People thought Oshie wouldn't hack it in high school. He led his team to the state title in Class A. Every time people think he can't, he does.

No, my point is that no matter what Oshie does, there are people who refuse to give him proper credit and acknowledge that maybe - just maybe - Oshie is going to have a better career than they want to admit.

I see, they had every intention of bringing a prospect along further into the organization and giving him some playing time at the next level. I didn't realize that intent by management played that big of a role in the skill level and the ability of a prospect to reach his potential.

If I knew what point you were trying to make, I might respond accordingly. However, I have no clue what you're implying here [other than trying to make some cute comment that's so incredibly short-sighted and self-serving, it's comical] ... so I won't.

But hey, thats fine, would you just like to show me where I have jumped to a conclusion? I'd love to see, so as too not make that mistake again. Because you keep saying I have, but I don't see where, seeing as I have not said either is better, just that Cogliano has taken the first step and Oshie has hosen not to.

You're the one who wants to keep bringing up the fact that Cogliano is in the NHL and Oshie isn't as some benchmark for claiming that Cogliano is better than Oshie. Oh, sure - you then go on to say, "and that's right now, maybe that changes down the road" but in the end you still keep coming back to "Cogliano is in the NHL, Oshie isn't" and tout it as though it's supposed to be a valid measuring stick; the reality is, using this "logic" to compare any two players where one is in the NHL and the other can lead to some really absurd conclusions.

BTW - my status as an admin has nothing to do with this conversation. Nothing.

 

[Checker*]

Nope, I've been wathing hokey all my life, I just started watching it in depth two years ago. But hey, thats fine, would you just like to show me where I have jumped to a conclusion? I'd love to see, so as too not make that mistake again. Because you keep saying I have, but I don't see where, seeing as I have not said either is better, just that Cogliano has taken the first step and Oshie has hosen not to. Would you also like to show me where I have "impressed" my opinion on anyone? I'd really love to see that. It's great that an Admin is telling me that just saying my opinion is considered impressing it on people.

Thats your choice, you however made a conclusion, een if you won't admit it, that Oshie is better even when he hasn't done jak at the NHL level. Thats cool though.

You'll see the error of your young homerish ways in a couple of years when Oshie is putting up points in the NHL and your voice finally changes. Until then, we know your opinion. Thanks for sharing. Don't agree

 

[Checker*]

Oshie doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Cogliano.

No matter how much of a promising prospect Oshie is, he isn't an NHL player at this time.

Fine. The Blues will trade you Matt Walker for Ryan O'Marra then.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

So when the two were in the NCAA it was fair to compare them? It was fair to assume Oshie would be a top line player and Cogliano would be Todd Marchant 2.0, but now that Cogs is in the NHL playing extremely well at ES, and with some PK and PP time and Oshie is still in the NCCA we can no longer compare the two? Oshie can be hailed as the second coming of christ and Cogliano is just ok?

I have never "hailed Oshie as the 2nd coming of Christ while declaring that Cogliano is just OK." Others have - I'm not one of them. [BTW - I've also seen people declare Cogliano is the next consistent 30-goal scorer while Oshie will be lucky to anchor a 4th line ... so that door swings both ways.] What I have said is that Oshie has skill and plays with grit - and has been an outstanding 2-way player at UND so far.

I'll note that the Blues thought he was good enough to be on the NHL roster this year and could have played in the top-6. That's not my assertion - that's one that Davidson, Pleau, MacInnis, and Kekalainen all made. It was Oshie's decision [and his alone] to go back to UND to try and win a national title this season; the team was supportive of his decision, but they would have been absolutely thrilled had he signed this summer and a lot of people think Oshie could step into the NHL right now. Again ... that's not my assertion - that's the assertion of people who get paid to follow the game and know a hell of a lot about who can and who can't make it in the NHL.

Cogliano decided to make the jump to the NHL this year. Great! I'm thrilled for him, I hope he has a great season and a long, productive career - but c'mon, let not start touting his greatness [or the greatness of any player in the NHL] at the expense of Oshie [or any other player not currently in the NHL] solely because "our guy is in the NHL right now, yours isn't." After all, there's a kid in Pittsburgh who went from "if we did a re-draft of 2006, he's clearly the overall #1" to "should he go back to the OHL?" in less than 21 games this season.

 

[ChokeOnOil]

You're the one who wants to keep bringing up the fact that Cogliano is in the NHL and Oshie isn't as some benchmark for claiming that Cogliano is better than Oshie. Oh, sure - you then go on to say, "and that's right now, maybe that changes down the road" but in the end you still keep coming back to "Cogliano is in the NHL, Oshie isn't" and tout it as though it's supposed to be a valid measuring stick; the reality is, using this "logic" to compare any two players where one is in the NHL and the other can lead to some really absurd conclusions.

BTW - my status as an admin has nothing to do with this conversation. Nothing.

I DID NOT SAY HE WAS.

And you missed my point with the Admin comment, I'll drop it.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

And you missed my point with the Admin comment, I'll drop it.

No, I got it - and I'm saying that using it as the basis for anything in this conversation is a complete and utter waste of time.

 

[Schitzo]

I think the bottom line is, the oilers fans saying "cogs is actually in the NHL this year, oshie must be crap, suck it blues fans" have managed to irk all the Blues fans, including the reasonable ones.

Conversely, the blues fans saying "cogliano shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as oshie, you Pejorative Slurs" have managed to irk all the oilers fans, even the reasonable ones.

So clearly the moral of the story is to ban every poster who engaged in ridiculous-on-the-point-of-trolling hyperbole, and the reasonable people can have a reasonable talk.

 

[ChokeOnOil]

No, I got it - and I'm saying that using it as the basis for anything in this conversation is a complete and utter waste of time.

You know what, forget about the Admin thing, the problem i had was that just speaking my opinion became impressing it on people, I'm not forcing you to agree. I'm just telling you what I think.

 

[oil slick]

I think the bottom line is, the oilers fans saying "cogs is actually in the NHL this year, oshie must be crap, suck it blues fans" have managed to irk all the Blues fans, including the reasonable ones.

Conversely, the blues fans saying "cogliano shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as oshie, you Pejorative Slurs" have managed to irk all the oilers fans, even the reasonable ones.

So clearly the moral of the story is to ban every poster who engaged in ridiculous-on-the-point-of-trolling hyperbole, and the reasonable people can have a reasonable talk.

Well said. Both views are crazy IMO.

Plenty of great players stay in college for a few extra years.

Being 3rd in rookie scoring in the NHL is nothing to dismiss.

 

[rawrmachine]

Oilers fans are glad they have Cogliano, Blues fans are glad they have Oshie. Just enjoy and stop trying to compare them.

 

[voxel]

I'd like to start comparing Cogliano to Zach Parise... (both speedy + shifty and always in scoring positions)

TJ Oshie can be compared to Mike Richards (okay, that was random because I haven't see Oshie play).

Hopefully this will end the Cogs vs. Oshie debate. Neither look like busts at this point.

 

[TheGreatone94]

Cogs with another goal last night!

 

[fogducker]

hard to say when oshie is not playin gin the nhl right now