Player Discussion Cody Ceci | Part III

[MaxTheLimit]

I am only saying "Huh" because someone called him "the most underrated player on the team". That's all. I kind of understand what people like about him, but saying his is the most underrated player is kinda crazy. Have you heard people in here gush over him?

I haven't really seen a lot of people gush over him. I've seen a hell of a lot of criticism, and people saying all nature of negative things.

I've been maintaining for a while that Ceci is suffering from being miscast. He is playing top4 minutes as a #2 shutdown RD. That's not who he is. I was hopeful that he could develop into a top 4 guy, but it doesn't seem to be happening. In a more protected role, I'm betting Ceci would look a lot more solid. If he was our 3RD, and given bottom pairing minutes against the right matchups, and given some offensive zone starts ( Ceci was deployed in the defensive zone at the highest ratio of any Sens D ), I think that he would be much more suitable.

People have argued that Wideman should be moved up from 3RD to 2RD, but when he was, he also struggled badly.

Basically, I see the Sens as having 1 top line RD in Karlsson, and 2 bottom pairing RD in Ceci and Wideman. I don't think either are skilled or well rounded enough to take on the large role of holding the fort until Karlsson can get back on the ice. Neither are 25+ minute Dmen. That's why they both struggle when they are placed in that role.

At this point, even though I hate when Dmen play their off side, I think it'll be time to move Phaneuf over to 2RD and see if one of Claesson, Methot, or Chabot can play as 2LD.

I'd say, at this point, the best option may be:

Methot-Karlsson
Chabot-Phaneuf
Claesson-Ceci

I'd expect Wideman to be taken by LV. If he's not, things would change a bit. Obviously.

It's just my opinion, but I don't think that Ceci is this dumpster player with no value, like some think. He's just not a top4 guy. Which is why he gets into a lot of trouble when deployed like a #2RD shutdown guy.

 

[JungleBeat]

So, because Ceci tries hard, we should all just wait this out?? Everyone also said last year that he would be better this year. Is he? Just because he plays more minutes doesn't mean he is better.

Erik Karlsson was a dynamic D-man the moment he stepped into the league. You could see what he was gonna become. Still waiting to see what Ceci will be.

You don't have to wait to see what Ceci will become. What you see is what you get at this point. The guy has no offensive skill and limited puck handling abilities. I'm not even sure if he thrives at one aspect of the game to be honest, the only thing he has going for him right now is that he works hard and that's it.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Erik Karlsson was a dynamic D-man the moment he stepped into the league. You could see what he was gonna become. Still waiting to see what Ceci will be.

Revisionist history. Karlsson was sent back to Binghamton early in his career. If he were as dynamic as you claim he never would have been sent back in the first place. Karlsson's awesome enough without making things up about him.

Ceci is a work in progress, and I'm in the camp that I'm not sure how much better he can be. But the point about it being a bad time to sell on him definitely has some merit. That would be poor asset management unless we're packaging him in a deal for high-end proven talent.

 

[JungleBeat]

Revisionist history. Karlsson was sent back to Binghamton early in his career. If he were as dynamic as you claim he never would have been sent back in the first place. Karlsson's awesome enough without making things up about him.

Just because he was sent back to Binghamton doesn't mean he wasn't dynamic. You could tell that EK had speed to burn and great passing abilities(turnovers too) when he came into the league. The skill was definitely there with him. With regards to Ceci he doesn't even show flashes of skill, it's the same old plays every game the leads to absolutely nothing.

 

[Mephias]

Revisionist history. Karlsson was sent back to Binghamton early in his career. If he were as dynamic as you claim he never would have been sent back in the first place. Karlsson's awesome enough without making things up about him.

Ceci is a work in progress, and I'm in the camp that I'm not sure how much better he can be. But the point about it being a bad time to sell on him definitely has some merit. That would be poor asset management unless we're packaging him in a deal for high-end proven talent.

He was dynamic enough to force himself back onto the NHL team after just 12 AHL games, when the expectation amongst the fanbase was that he would stay the entire year in Binghamton to not burn a year off of his ELC (I believe they sent him down after 9 games).

He then went on to lead the Sens defensemen in minutes during the playoff series in his rookie season.

I actually like Cody Ceci; just wanted to point out that Karlsson was quite clearly a special talent from the get-go.

 

[ottawah]

Erik Karlsson was a dynamic D-man the moment he stepped into the league. You could see what he was gonna become. Still waiting to see what Ceci will be.

If you want to compare every D man to Karlsson, you are going to come away pretty disapointed.

 

[BatherSeason]

Revisionist history. Karlsson was sent back to Binghamton early in his career. If he were as dynamic as you claim he never would have been sent back in the first place. Karlsson's awesome enough without making things up about him.

Ceci is a work in progress, and I'm in the camp that I'm not sure how much better he can be. But the point about it being a bad time to sell on him definitely has some merit. That would be poor asset management unless we're packaging him in a deal for high-end proven talent.

Karlsson played 9 games then was sent to Bingo for a month and forced the team to keep him around. Not revisionist history at all. He was absolutely dynamic. The only problem people had with EK was the problem the media seemed to want to create. Unfortunately, most listened. TSN1200 ran polls just last year asking if he should become a forward instead. Don Brennan mocked Karlsson every chance he got up until this year. Again, a lot of the fan base listened.

 

[BatherSeason]

If you want to compare every D man to Karlsson, you are going to come away pretty disapointed.

I wasn't the one who made the comparison. I was replying to this:

In a larger contact it's critiquing a young Dman who is making his way in the NHL. So if the fan base doesn't like Ceci making mistakes, they'll ram it down Chabot's throat as well. Remember when EK was a young D and he couldn't contain any big bodies, they'd literally just stand with their back to him and he couldn't do a thing. Chabot will suffer this same fate.

 

[Tuna99]

Karlsson played 9 games then was sent to Bingo for a month and forced the team to keep him around. Not revisionist history at all. He was absolutely dynamic. The only problem people had with EK was the problem the media seemed to want to create. Unfortunately, most listened. TSN1200 ran polls just last year asking if he should become a forward instead. Don Brennan mocked Karlsson every chance he got up until this year. Again, a lot of the fan base listened.

I was one of the few fans here who when EK was sent down said that Ottawa made a mistake and should of kept him in Ottawa - because he was dynamic. But even then he struggled with his turns, he couldn;t handle big players and his move was to stand next to the post and watch. But even still EK got critized for being small and how he would never survive in the NHL - and I argued that he was amazing and fans didn't agree. So the lesson being even EK got kicked aorund by fan on these boards when he was 20-21 years old, so let's give these players a chance to grow and become the players they are. Maybe Ceci becomes a 23 minute, PK style good sakting Dman who plays against the other teams top forwards. Who cares. If that's what he is that's a pretty good player, and no team in the NHL had 6 EK's on defence. Look at Pittsburg D- Ceci might be the best D on that team if he was playing in Pitt

 

[Micklebot]

Karlsson played 9 games then was sent to Bingo for a month and forced the team to keep him around. Not revisionist history at all. He was absolutely dynamic. The only problem people had with EK was the problem the media seemed to want to create. Unfortunately, most listened. TSN1200 ran polls just last year asking if he should become a forward instead. Don Brennan mocked Karlsson every chance he got up until this year. Again, a lot of the fan base listened.

I'm thinking that if we're going to be honest, what forced Ottawa to keep Karlsson up was the colossal error of thinking we could start the year with Picard as a top 4 Dman.

Our top 4 before calling up Karlsson was Phillips, Kuba, Picard, Carkner (Edit: Volchenkov was hurt at that time). Karlsson didn't have to do much to force his way onto the team.

 

[swiftwin]

Ceci has probably become our most underrated player.

100% this. He was the youngest player on the team this year (even younger than Claesson), playing the most difficult role (Most DZ starts, Shutdown role, 2nd most TOI on team, top6 PK TOI league-wide, etc.) in a position that usually takes a while to master. Boucher had him on the ice in the final minutes protecting our 1 goal lead in game 6.

He's shown that he's a great player, but his problem was consistency. What the hell else do you expect from a 23yr old defenseman? Ofcourse he's going to be inconsistent. The pitchfork brigade just needed another scapegoat after Boro got hurt.

Book it. Ceci is going to be an absolute pillar for our top 4 over the next 5-6 years, along with Karlsson and Chabot.

 

[Golden_Jet]

100% this. He was the youngest player on the team this year (even younger than Claesson), playing the most difficult role (Most DZ starts, Shutdown role, 2nd most TOI on team, top6 PK TOI league-wide, etc.) in a position that usually takes a while to master. Boucher had him on the ice in the final minutes protecting our 1 goal lead in game 6.

He's shown that he's a great player, but his problem was consistency. What the hell else do you expect from a 23yr old defenseman? Ofcourse he's going to be inconsistent. The pitchfork brigade just needed another scapegoat after Boro got hurt.

Book it. Ceci is going to be an absolute pillar for our top 4 over the next 5-6 years, along with Karlsson and Chabot.

Yep, I'm still all in on Ceci.

 

[Fandlauer]

100% this. He was the youngest player on the team this year (even younger than Claesson), playing the most difficult role (Most DZ starts, Shutdown role, 2nd most TOI on team, top6 PK TOI league-wide, etc.) in a position that usually takes a while to master. Boucher had him on the ice in the final minutes protecting our 1 goal lead in game 6.

He's shown that he's a great player, but his problem was consistency. What the hell else do you expect from a 23yr old defenseman? Ofcourse he's going to be inconsistent. The pitchfork brigade just needed another scapegoat after Boro got hurt.

Book it. Ceci is going to be an absolute pillar for our top 4 over the next 5-6 years, along with Karlsson and Chabot.

Yup.

I can't believe there are actually people saying we should risk exposing this guy in the expansion draft.

He would be gone in an instant.

 

[Viletho]

Just because he was sent back to Binghamton doesn't mean he wasn't dynamic. You could tell that EK had speed to burn and great passing abilities(turnovers too) when he came into the league. The skill was definitely there with him. With regards to Ceci he doesn't even show flashes of skill, it's the same old plays every game the leads to absolutely nothing.

When you say he showed no flash of skill, what do you mean exactly?

No Skill with the puck?
No Skill without the puck?
Another thing?

 

[JungleBeat]

When you say he showed no flash of skill, what do you mean exactly?

No Skill with the puck?
No Skill without the puck?
Another thing?

I mean that he doesn't have any redeeming qualities to his game that leads to flashes of skill. I've rarely ever noticed Ceci making a crisp tape to tape stretch/outlet pass to a forward out of the zone. I've rarely seen him rush out of our zone to create an offensive chance and not simply dump it in. His shifts either end up in him being hemmed in his zone or him just chipping the puck out.

 

[aragorn]

I'd be interested to know how many teams would look to get rid of their #4 defencemen (when they don't have to) who helped them get to the ECF & took the defending SC champions to double overtime in game 7. He played through injury, he helped shut down the highest scoring team in the NHL (that is a skill, few on here appreciate) & saved several goals against. Methot is not an offensive defenceman, yet he is praised for his defensive play, I wonder if that has anything to do with him playing with Karlsson?

Ceci played a role his coach wanted him to play & for the most part he did it very well & was a big part in helping his team get to the ECF. There is no one else in this organization who can replace Ceci's role better at this time including Chabot who is an offensive defenceman & it is yet to be determined how he will do defensively against NHL forwards. Yes, having possession of the puck prevents the other team from scoring but in the thousands of hockey games I have seen the other team also gets possession of the puck quite often & you still have to prevent them from scoring sometimes. And every team I have ever seen has defensive defencemen on their roster whose job it is to prevent the other team from scoring. I thought he did a very good job against the highest scoring team in the NHL with a broken finger as well as the other two teams he helped to eliminate.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Minority Voice that pounds strongly against Ceci on this board.
His issues are clearly decisions with the puck , and/or abilities with the puck on offense. He just as clearly defends really well. He is almost never out of position. He adequately ate huge minutes in a shut down role as a RHD when the organization had no one that could come close to replacing him. How many times did you see Ceci get beat while he was defending?

A 23 y/o D that brought everything he had most nights effort wise.

He makes mistakes ... yup ... imo he shows up and he plays hard and he will get better.

 

[Sensinitis]

Place Chabot with Ceci and watch the magic next season.

On the 3rd pair, Phaneuf + Claesson/Wideman/Harpur/Jaros/Englund

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Not taking the expansion draft or future acquisitions in account, hoping for something like this:

Methot-Karlsson
Claesson-Phaneuf
Chabot-Ceci
Harpur

 

[bert]

I haven't really seen a lot of people gush over him. I've seen a hell of a lot of criticism, and people saying all nature of negative things.

I've been maintaining for a while that Ceci is suffering from being miscast. He is playing top4 minutes as a #2 shutdown RD. That's not who he is. I was hopeful that he could develop into a top 4 guy, but it doesn't seem to be happening. In a more protected role, I'm betting Ceci would look a lot more solid. If he was our 3RD, and given bottom pairing minutes against the right matchups, and given some offensive zone starts ( Ceci was deployed in the defensive zone at the highest ratio of any Sens D ), I think that he would be much more suitable.

People have argued that Wideman should be moved up from 3RD to 2RD, but when he was, he also struggled badly.

Basically, I see the Sens as having 1 top line RD in Karlsson, and 2 bottom pairing RD in Ceci and Wideman. I don't think either are skilled or well rounded enough to take on the large role of holding the fort until Karlsson can get back on the ice. Neither are 25+ minute Dmen. That's why they both struggle when they are placed in that role.

At this point, even though I hate when Dmen play their off side, I think it'll be time to move Phaneuf over to 2RD and see if one of Claesson, Methot, or Chabot can play as 2LD.

I'd say, at this point, the best option may be:

Methot-Karlsson
Chabot-Phaneuf
Claesson-Ceci

I'd expect Wideman to be taken by LV. If he's not, things would change a bit. Obviously.

It's just my opinion, but I don't think that Ceci is this dumpster player with no value, like some think. He's just not a top4 guy. Which is why he gets into a lot of trouble when deployed like a #2RD shutdown guy.

Wow what a great post.

 

[ottawah]

You don't have to wait to see what Ceci will become. What you see is what you get at this point. The guy has no offensive skill and limited puck handling abilities. I'm not even sure if he thrives at one aspect of the game to be honest, the only thing he has going for him right now is that he works hard and that's it.

Saying he has no offensive skill really flies in the face of the facts. He has been a very good producer so far, and is only 23.

98th in D scoring this year with pretty low offenive zone starts. Thats top 4 numbers.

76th in the league in D scoring over the last 3 years. Top 3 numbers, encroaching on top pairing.

Last year when he was not deployed as a shutdown D as much, he was 26th in the league in for 5v5 points per 60, including 12th for RHD. And was 4th in D men in goals per 60 (5x5). Those are number 1 numbers, encroaching on elite.

He already has more points in an Ottawa uniform than Methot. And he has one less goal than Methot has career vs career. An Ceci does not play side kick to the bets offensive D man in the league.

As a 19 yr old rookie in the A, he was on pace for a 51 point season before being called up.

He could crack the Ottawa senators all time top 10 D scoring list next year (doesn't even need to reach a career high).

And this has been done in spite of near zero PP time, playing behind the best offensive D man in this league.

And this is all at 23 years of age.




Quite simply, despite not being deployed in offensive situations, he is producing top 3 numbers. Thats hardly "no offensive skill".

 

[starling]

By this time in his career Karlsson had already won Norris (and could've won two if Cook didn't happen).

 

[Micklebot]

By this time in his career Karlsson had already won Norris (and could've won two if Cook didn't happen).

Ok, but why is this comparison even remotely relevant? Were people expecting Ceci to be on track to compare to the all time greats of the game?

I eagerly look forward to you complaining about how White hasn't won any Art ross trophies when he doesn't match up with Crosby's career achievements at the same age. ,

 

[starling]

Ok, but why is this comparison even remotely relevant? Were people expecting Ceci to be on track to compare to the all time greats of the game?

I eagerly look forward to you complaining about how White has won any Art ross trophies when he doesn't match up with Crosby's career achievements at the same age. ,

Someone above was talking about even Karlsson needing some to develop and that we need to give Ceci a little bit more time. I agree, this comparison doesn't hold any water what so ever.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Saying he has no offensive skill really flies in the face of the facts. He has been a very good producer so far, and is only 23.

98th in D scoring this year with pretty low offenive zone starts. Thats top 4 numbers.

76th in the league in D scoring over the last 3 years. Top 3 numbers, encroaching on top pairing.

Last year when he was not deployed as a shutdown D as much, he was 26th in the league in for 5v5 points per 60, including 12th for RHD. And was 4th in D men in goals per 60 (5x5). Those are number 1 numbers, encroaching on elite.

He already has more points in an Ottawa uniform than Methot. And he has one less goal than Methot has career vs career. An Ceci does not play side kick to the bets offensive D man in the league.

As a 19 yr old rookie in the A, he was on pace for a 51 point season before being called up.

He could crack the Ottawa senators all time top 10 D scoring list next year (doesn't even need to reach a career high).

And this has been done in spite of near zero PP time, playing behind the best offensive D man in this league.

And this is all at 23 years of age.




Quite simply, despite not being deployed in offensive situations, he is producing top 3 numbers. Thats hardly "no offensive skill".

Deployment is one thing but you can just see with how he plays that he doesn't have much of an offensive instinct. He is devoid of generating any kind of sustained offensive pressure, he just doesn't have the smarts for it.

This isn't due to being deployed in a more defensive role as he has no issues with rushing the puck out and getting it into the offensive blue line. When he gets there he just has no clue what to do next.