Player Discussion Cody Ceci | Part III

[krapsik]

Trade him before other teams start to realize what exactly?

That he is not worth the price we receive for him ?

 

[JD1]

It's really odd how some can see him being a solid top 4 defenceman.

I don't think it's odd at all. Ceci wasn't in the Duchene deal, it would have been difficult to equate value if he was but I must have seen a 1000 posts here about Ceci plus for Duchene. PD gets calls all the time on Ceci....as a guy that is on the boards all the time and follows the team, I'm sure that is a viewpoint you've heard expressed before by PD.

Our mgmt. group thinks highly of this player. Other mgmt. groups around the league think highly of this player. Makes you wonder what is it the hard core group of 20 or so anti Ceci posters see that causes such a negative perception or I suppose what they do not see that causes the perception.

WRT to your Oduya comment. I don't think GB thinks Oduya is a legit top 4 guy at this stage in his career. But we are at the 18 game mark with 64 to go before the playoffs. Right now Oduya is doing a job, helping out, keeping a spot warm, not doign any harm to our playoff aspirations and GB likes his vet presence. Lets see how the next 5 months evolve before using Oduya as a means to question GB's and the organizations's position on Ceci.

 

[Boud]

If chabot is not gonna work at RD and Boucher doesn't think he will we should trade him for a bluechip young winger. Because Boucher will never have him on his left.

Phaneuf is better on the right. We have a lot of options.

Claesson - Karlsson
Chabot - Phaneuf

 

[Micklebot]

And have resorted to trying him on the right past few games.

That's another guy making mistakes and it's cool.

I thought he played Left side with Phaneuf moving to the right (that's where he scored his goal from). I may not have been paying that much attention, but I really don't recall him on the right side much if at all.

Our LD have mostly been Claesson, Oduya, Phaneuf (who to my knowledge was playing the right side a fair bit in Sweden), and Boro. Boro and Phaneuf, sure, but Claesson and Oduya aren't ogres.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I don't think it's odd at all. Ceci wasn't in the Duchene deal, it would have been difficult to equate value if he was but I must have seen a 1000 posts here about Ceci plus for Duchene. PD gets calls all the time on Ceci....as a guy that is on the boards all the time and follows the team, I'm sure that is a viewpoint you've heard expressed before by PD.

Our mgmt. group thinks highly of this player. Other mgmt. groups around the league think highly of this player. Makes you wonder what is it the hard core group of 20 or so anti Ceci posters see that causes such a negative perception or I suppose what they do not see that causes the perception.

WRT to your Oduya comment. I don't think GB thinks Oduya is a legit top 4 guy at this stage in his career. But we are at the 18 game mark with 64 to go before the playoffs. Right now Oduya is doing a job, helping out, keeping a spot warm, not doign any harm to our playoff aspirations and GB likes his vet presence. Lets see how the next 5 months evolve before using Oduya as a means to question GB's and the organizations's position on Ceci.

Well trading Ceci for Duchene wouldn't be smart. That would probably force the team to play Chabot instead of letting him develop some more or let someone else play Ceci's minutes. He is the best that we currently have without sabotaging our top prospect but that doesn't mean hes solid for that role. At his best he is adequate - good but him being his best is few and far between

I don't think there is an agenda against Ceci as you put it. People will just call out what they see. The 20 (definitely more than 20) or so 'anti Ceci posters' all see similar things, maybe that's an indication that they aren't haters and that there is a fundamental commonality that they all see? Perhaps its a natural reaction where the immediate default response to any scrutiny is labelled 'hating'. Not sure.

With regards to my Oduya comment it was more of saying that Boucher (despite his success) isn't always right in his evaluations of players.

 

[Xspyrit]

Future :

Chabot-Karlsson
Harpur-Ceci
Lajoie-Jaros

I hope that is the plan. That defense would be really sick. If Lajoie doesn't work, then it's probably Claesson or Wolanin

 

[Cosmix]

Future :

Chabot-Karlsson
Harpur-Ceci
Lajoie-Jaros

I hope that is the plan. That defense would be really sick. If Lajoie doesn't work, then it's probably Claesson or Wolanin

Me too. Chabot with Karlsson would be a very difficult pairing for other teams to play against. Add a top offensive set of forwards (e.g., Hoffman, Duchene, Stone) and we could see offensive domination at ES similar to what the Heatley, Spezza, Alfredsson Pizza Line provided.

I hope Harpur and Jaros develops a mean streak like that shown by Phaneuf. I like Ceci and hope he blossoms offensively which may be possible given his junior career. Lajoie is a mystery to me as I have not seen him play very much.

 

[aragorn]

Future :

Chabot-Karlsson
Harpur-Ceci
Lajoie-Jaros

I hope that is the plan. That defense would be really sick. If Lajoie doesn't work, then it's probably Claesson or Wolanin

I'm not sure that works if GB is still coaching here with the way he wants his left side to spring up & hit anyone coming up that side, with Chabot & Lajoie on that side who are both stick checkers & not hitters. Interesting that you don't have Claesson on the three pairings but as a backup if Lajoie doesn't work out. Claesson seems to have established himself now on the team & in the organization, he could be hard to replace. I know a lot of people on here doubt Englund has any kind of a shot but I do & believe that the organization is still high on this guy. Chabot & Jaros might even be switched below & Harpur & Englund too. IMO Lajoie could end up as an interesting piece in any trade scenario, if he continues to impress for a good young forward.

Englund - Karlsson - Englund looks & plays like a Methot clone IMO
Chabot - Ceci - could be an interesting pair
Harpur - Jaros/Boro - PK & shutdown duo

Synopsis: they get plenty of pts from Karlsson, they don't need another offensive defenceman with him but rather it would make more sense to spread out the scoring & have a defensive defenceman protect his back specifically at ES. I expect that Chabot will be an offensive dynamo too & putting him with Ceci who is more defensive minded should improve this pairing significantly. Harpur has managed to put up pts his whole career so far & I would hope he continues that even though he is on the third pairing. With his size & strength he can double as a defensive defenceman too & Jaros is similar in that he has some offence to his game & he is big & tough enough to play a strong shutdown role. Jaros reminds me a little & hopefully can become more like a mobile Phaneuf.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It's really odd how some can see him being a solid top 4 defenceman.

Well he has the hardest matchups on the team, starts in the D zone more than the O zone, And GB says he is our top shutdown guy.
Currently second best D on the team.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Well he has the hardest matchups on the team, starts in the D zone more than the O zone, And GB says he is our top shutdown guy.
Currently second best D on the team.

So you are saying we need to upgrade our D corps?

 

[playasRus]

How are people writing off a guy that's shown he's capable of top pairing minutes in the ECF and has been a regular in our top 6 this season for guys who've yet to show they can even handle the AHL? I think Ceci is an above average 2nd pairing D, and if Harpur and Jaros can develop into a formidable 3rd pair that can handle more than 10 minutes a night, it'll go a long way in showing how good he can be if we can have him playing closer to 18-20 minutes.

Claesson - Karlsson 22-23 minutes
Phaneuf - Ceci 18-20 minutes
Harpur - Jaros 16-17 minutes

With Karlsson getting the ~2-3 minutes of PP per game and no PK.

 

[Mephias]

Ceci leads the Sens in even strength TOI, and matches up against the other team's top line every game.

If he was able to do that while putting up 40 points and never getting hemmed in his own zone (like some posters seem to expect), he would be a Norris-level defenseman. As he is right now, Ceci is already a #2 or #3 NHL defenseman.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Ceci has been progressing every year. At this point, he is definitely a good second pairing defenseman. He has size, strength, mobility, his passing and shooting is coming around, he has been more assertive in the offensive zone this year. He's blossoming into the all-around defenseman he was projected to be.

Now all that said, I'm not willing to throw a ton of money at the guy. Somewhere around 3.5-3.9 average over 4-5 years would be a good contract for him.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

So you are saying we need to upgrade our D corps?

How about upgrading a bunch of HFSens users instead?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Ceci leads the Sens in even strength TOI, and matches up against the other team's top line every game.

If he was able to do that while putting up 40 points and never getting hemmed in his own zone (like some posters seem to expect), he would be a Norris-level defenseman. As he is right now, Ceci is already a #2 or #3 NHL defenseman.

There's a grey between "never getting hemmed in his own zone" and always getting hemmed in his own zone. I want that grey.

And good #2s don't always get hemmed in. They're not constantly chasing.

 

[Micklebot]

There's a grey between "never getting hemmed in his own zone" and always getting hemmed in his own zone. I want that grey.

And good #2s don't always get hemmed in. They're not constantly chasing.

I thought he did a fine job of shutting down MacKinnon over in Sweden. I do prefer him with Harpur over Phaneuf though.

 

[Mephias]

There's a grey between "never getting hemmed in his own zone" and always getting hemmed in his own zone. I want that grey.

And good #2s don't always get hemmed in. They're not constantly chasing.

I certainly agree with you that Ceci has room to improve to get closer to that "grey." He's probably a decent-to-good #3 or a bad #2 right now.

My post was directed more at those who don't seem to think he's even a top 4 D in the NHL. If all #2/3 Dmen in the NHL could match up against the opposition top lines and only rarely get hemmed in, no goals would ever get scored. I think as fans we focus on our own team a little too much. For example, if Mark Stone isn't able to get anything going against Hedman, we'll blame Stone. But if Kucherov scores against Ceci...

Back on topic, I think Ceci has the potential to be a top #2 D in the NHL. Could just be homerism, but in Ceci I see one of those stereotypical defensemen who take years to fully develop. One day when he's 26/27 he'll put it all together and become that good #2 you're describing.

 

[Upgrayedd]

How about upgrading a bunch of HFSens users instead?

At least it gives you an indication of who to avoid, when I see people loudly proclaiming how poor Ceci is, I avoid those people or conversations as nothing positive or generally factual will come from it. Best to just move on imo, the guy has improved every year and looks to be taking another step this year.

 

[JackieDaytona]

I think Ceci is perhaps not what was expected when he was younger (lots of offensive upside), but to me he's improved in small but important ways since last year this time. It used to be that he would hold on to the puck for a bit too long when he retrieved it (which I think he's always been pretty good at), get caught by a forecheck and end up turning over the puck, or choose the wrong path for a pass and give it away. I'd cringe when he'd have the puck and you could see the wheels turning in his head - what do I do with this thing now?? The best option for him was always to just skate it out, but that is not always great for the transition.

Anyway, in my mind he's made huge improvements in this area since last season. He's a lot more confident when he gets the puck on his stick, makes a decent decision more often than not with passing to get it out of our zone. He's always had size, speed, and was fairly good with his stick and along the boards as strengths, so it's encouraging that he is making improvements in vision and decision making in his own end. He'll never be a superstar and he'll never be without flaws in those areas, but I think he's a really valuable player to have on the blueline. Not to be shitty, but I often think the issues are often more about fan expectations of players than their actual performances. He lines up pretty well with other 2nd pairing RHD on great teams across the league IMO.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I think Ceci is perhaps not what was expected when he was younger (lots of offensive upside)

I know this is a bit nit picky, since this wasn't the general premise of your argument, but to comment on that one aspect, I think you are right, but I think it's important to acknowledge why Ceci might not be showing much offensively.

The answer to that is, Guy Boucher. Boucher doesn't give Ceci PP responsibility, and uses Ceci as a hard nosed shutdown D and does not give him o-zone starts or easy minutes where he can utilise any offensive ability he might have. Prior to Guy Boucher being hired, Ceci put up well over 20 ES points per 82 games in two seasons. Put him on a team where he is the top PP QB, and that might be a 40+ point player.

I'm not saying Boucher is making the wrong choice, Ceci has found a niche playing these minutes on this team, and we don't need his offense since we have a guy named Erik Karlsson driving the offense for us. But my main argument is that I think it might be a chicken/egg type thing. Did Ceci's offense not develop, or is he just not on a team where he's in a position to showcase it? I would think it's the latter. Put Ceci on a team where he is the main PP QB and not relied on as the primary shutdown guy, and I think he puts up bigger offensive numbers. He'll never be a Klingberg or a Karlsson, but 40 points shouldn't be out of reach given the way he produced at purely at ES under Dave Cameron.

 

[Cosmix]

I think Ceci is perhaps not what was expected when he was younger (lots of offensive upside), but to me he's improved in small but important ways since last year this time. It used to be that he would hold on to the puck for a bit too long when he retrieved it (which I think he's always been pretty good at), get caught by a forecheck and end up turning over the puck, or choose the wrong path for a pass and give it away. I'd cringe when he'd have the puck and you could see the wheels turning in his head - what do I do with this thing now?? The best option for him was always to just skate it out, but that is not always great for the transition.

Anyway, in my mind he's made huge improvements in this area since last season. He's a lot more confident when he gets the puck on his stick, makes a decent decision more often than not with passing to get it out of our zone. He's always had size, speed, and was fairly good with his stick and along the boards as strengths, so it's encouraging that he is making improvements in vision and decision making in his own end. He'll never be a superstar and he'll never be without flaws in those areas, but I think he's a really valuable player to have on the blueline. Not to be ****ty, but I often think the issues are often more about fan expectations of players than their actual performances. He lines up pretty well with other 2nd pairing RHD on great teams across the league IMO.

I like Ceci quite a bit as he has first three step quickness, can play a physical game, can get to the puck fast and skate it out of the D-zone, can pin his man against the boards. He needs to improve his passing and offence to rise from a second pair level to top pairing.

Claesson and Cecil seem to be playing a similar game and both are doing well right now. I think our defensemen are decent, but certainly could be improved by replacing Wideman, Borowiecki and Oduya. Chabot, Harper, Jaros, Lajoie and England are developing into replacements for those three.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

How about upgrading a bunch of HFSens users instead?

This can be applied to both sides of the fence

 

[Burrowsaurus]

This can be applied to both sides of the fence

You can upgrade some posters. Can't even reach them up there on their high horse.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

This can be applied to both sides of the fence

It was mostly in jest.

Mostly as in: you are not one of the **** tier.

 

[aragorn]

I like Ceci behind Karlsson on the right side & once they get Jaros up here on a permanent basis I think the right side will be good for yrs to come. The left side will need more work in that once Harpur, Englund & Chabot are ready to take on a permanent role in Ottawa it should be much bigger & better, especially on the 2nd pairing if they put Chabot & Ceci together. IMO that would improve Ceci's point production substantially since I expect Chabot to rack up a lot of points eventually. IMO Ottawa will be set on defence for yrs with all the good defensive depth prospects they have.

Englund - Karlsson - Karlsson needs defensive help more than another offensive defenceman, he gets enough pts by himself & Englund could be a Methot clone. They could also stick with Claesson for a while since he is doing fine but I think Englund potentially could be the better defensive player.

Chabot - Ceci - Chabot should drive the offence as Karlsson does on this pair but I expect that Ceci could also help & improve his pt totals. Both are big enough to also handle the defensive end although Chabot needs to get much stronger.

Harpur - Jaros - these two would obviously be a shutdown tandem & on the PK but both are also good enough to contribute at the offensive end & should be able to be played in most situations giving the other pairs some much needed rest from time to time. They would also be the enforcers on the roster.