Claude Julien, Marc Bergevin incredibly Pigheaded

[Lshap]

For what it's worth (and probably not worth much) but Brian Wilde himself alluded to a smear campaign before PK was dealt. Wilde is a journalist in the public domain... it wasn't just 2nd hand sources saying this. Make of that what you will.

Depends what the allusion was based on. Sure, I won't discredit Wilde's opinion, but then I also won't discredit the opinions of other journalists who said otherwise. I mean, if there really was a conspiracy, why didn't Wilde or any other journalist bust it wide open? Everything leaks -- why not this supposed media conspiracy? It would be a major coup for any reporter to uncover collusion, and yet... there's nuthin', except disgruntled fans.

Look, people can always find bits and bytes to support whatever opinion they like. But in this case, if you remove emotion and weigh both camps of evidence, the simpler explanation makes more sense than the complex, secret, tightly-controlled scheme.

You have to admit it's ironic that this GM who can't find a center is, at the same time, being accused of being this Machiavellian media-manipulator...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Depends what the allusion was based on. Sure, I won't discredit Wilde's opinion, but then I also won't discredit the opinions of other journalists who said otherwise. I mean, if there really was a conspiracy, why didn't Wilde or any other journalist bust it wide open? Everything leaks -- why not this supposed media conspiracy? It would be a major coup for any reporter to uncover collusion, and yet... there's nuthin', except disgruntled fans.

Look, people can always find bits and bytes to support whatever opinion they like. But in this case, if you remove emotion and weigh both camps of evidence, the simpler explanation makes more sense than the complex, secret, tightly-controlled scheme.

You have to admit it's ironic that this GM who can't find a center is, at the same time, being accused of being this Machiavellian media-manipulator...

It's a lot easier to shovel crap on a player then outflank an opposing GM for the center you so badly need. It doesn't take much.

What about this Subban being late for 18 practices or whatever... where the hell did that come from? How was that not disciplined when it was going on? That just doesn't make any sense at all. Wilde said at the time something to the effect of: Get ready because the machine is in motion. Sure enough that's exactly what happened.

Something weird happened there. From day one we lock PK out in a contract dispute and lowball the crap out of him. And that was before he even played a game under MB. They hired a guy who regularly slammed him on RDS... It's like they were gunning for him from the get go.

 

[Wats]

If someone who makes pretty graphs could make a time line graph of the takes this year would be so beautiful to see.

MB will re-sign Markov and Radulov

This team has good offence don’t worry

Alzner is the most reliable D man for Petry

Hemsky and Streit will replace Markov and Radulov productions

No way MB goes into the season with 8m cap space

Relax it’s just preseason

MB can land a big fish at the deadline with all this cap space

MB will use the cap space to his advantage at the trade deadline

It’s Price fault we are so bad


I’m sure there is many more but it’s been quite a entertaining and sad season at the same time.

Price isn't the only reason why we're good was another classic.

 

[OldCraig71]

You suggested Bergevin scripted a campaign with the media to tarnish Subban's reputation. Not only is there zero evidence anything like that happened, it's NEVER happened in recent history with ANY player. Fans were furious when Gretzky, Roy, Orr, Esposito, etc. etc. left their teams, yet those managements never colluded, smeared, or conspired with the media to ruin the players' reputation.

Patrick Roy asked to be traded
Gretzky trade though shocking was arranged I believe with the NHL/Edm and LA and was done to garner more exposure for the NHL in a struggling US market.
Yesterday you mentioned the Bourque(I think I spelled it right this time Ozy) was a done out of respect for him and trying to get him a cup.
As for Orr, I believe his knees were done and he was at the end of his career.(one more try)

The Subban trade made no sense and up until he was traded all we heard through the Montreal media were derogatory things about Subban.
-All he cared about was his brand
-He was bigger than the CH
-His teammates didn't like him
-He was a disturbance in the room
-He was singled out by his coach on TV
-He was late for something like 20 practices
-He missed other important team functions

Bergevin when asked said that Subban would be a hab for a very long time and then trades him for a guy 4 years older. Was that trade done out of need or was it done just to get rid of him and made to look like Bergevin had no other choice because the distraction of Subban was too great? If it were a hockey trade(which I could accept) why did he not try and address a team need? Weber was not a team need. Subban himself in the just for laughs stand up routine alluded to the fact that management did not want him, it was definitely never the fans. The smear campaign was heavy, it had to be, it's not like they were trading Travis Moen. There had to be some sort of justification to make such a senseless trade. I don't think that Bergevin had one so they sort of manufactured everything they could. 2 years later Therrien is gone and the team is at one of it's lowest points in it's history. Bergevin is on the ropes and when I look back it was the trade of Subban that started it all so things do have a way of working themselves out.

 

[MasterDecoy]

Is julien still the savior everyone expected?

He's nothing more than a well spoken therrien

 

[PaulD]

is CJ not one of the coaches and management that thought and traded Tyler Seguin be ause he could not play centre in Boston?

Seguin trade had nothing to do with that.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Patrick Roy asked to be traded
Gretzky trade though shocking was arranged I believe with the NHL/Edm and LA and was done to garner more exposure for the NHL in a struggling US market.
Yesterday you mentioned the Bourque(I think I spelled it right this time Ozy) was a done out of respect for him and trying to get him a cup.
As for Orr, I believe his knees were done and he was at the end of his career.(one more try)

The Subban trade made no sense and up until he was traded all we heard through the Montreal media were derogatory things about Subban.
-All he cared about was his brand
-He was bigger than the CH
-His teammates didn't like him
-He was a disturbance in the room
-He was singled out by his coach on TV
-He was late for something like 20 practices
-He missed other important team functions

Bergevin when asked said that Subban would be a hab for a very long time and then trades him for a guy 4 years older. Was that trade done out of need or was it done just to get rid of him and made to look like Bergevin had no other choice because the distraction of Subban was too great? If it were a hockey trade(which I could accept) why did he not try and address a team need? Weber was not a team need. Subban himself in the just for laughs stand up routine alluded to the fact that management did not want him, it was definitely never the fans. The smear campaign was heavy, it had to be, it's not like they were trading Travis Moen. There had to be some sort of justification to make such a senseless trade. I don't think that Bergevin had one so they sort of manufactured everything they could. 2 years later Therrien is gone and the team is at one of it's lowest points in it's history. Bergevin is on the ropes and when I look back it was the trade of Subban that started it all so things do have a way of working themselves out.

Very well said Craig, LG also has a great post on this matter.

The organization uses the media to launch balloons all the time to try and influence the fan base.

What I find interesting is that never in all his years here did it come out that Subban was late for all these practices, yet all of a sudden a few months before they pull the trigger that comes out? It’s not a coincidence and there’s a good chance it’s purely fabricated to fit their decision.

The Subban trade is the time stamp on the Bergevin era that everyone can look back on and say “that’s where it all started to fall apart”.

 

[PaulD]

Patrick Roy asked to be traded
Gretzky trade though shocking was arranged I believe with the NHL/Edm and LA and was done to garner more exposure for the NHL in a struggling US market.
Yesterday you mentioned the Bourque(I think I spelled it right this time Ozy) was a done out of respect for him and trying to get him a cup.
As for Orr, I believe his knees were done and he was at the end of his career.(one more try)

The Subban trade made no sense and up until he was traded all we heard through the Montreal media were derogatory things about Subban.
-All he cared about was his brand
-He was bigger than the CH
-His teammates didn't like him
-He was a disturbance in the room
-He was singled out by his coach on TV
-He was late for something like 20 practices
-He missed other important team functions

Bergevin when asked said that Subban would be a hab for a very long time and then trades him for a guy 4 years older. Was that trade done out of need or was it done just to get rid of him and made to look like Bergevin had no other choice because the distraction of Subban was too great? If it were a hockey trade(which I could accept) why did he not try and address a team need? Weber was not a team need. Subban himself in the just for laughs stand up routine alluded to the fact that management did not want him, it was definitely never the fans. The smear campaign was heavy, it had to be, it's not like they were trading Travis Moen. There had to be some sort of justification to make such a senseless trade. I don't think that Bergevin had one so they sort of manufactured everything they could. 2 years later Therrien is gone and the team is at one of it's lowest points in it's history. Bergevin is on the ropes and when I look back it was the trade of Subban that started it all so things do have a way of working themselves out.

Subban trade was more evidence that management operates with personal agenda. No doubt if it was a hockey trade only PK goes nowhere unless a top center is coming back in return. But MB and MT disliked him and put that ahead of the team.
However the Subban trade I do not believe was the start of it all. We seen in 016 how bad this team could preform without great goaltending. Price went out and his boys did not just feel the hit. They crumbled. This team was in trouble with Subban. But trading him made it worse.

 

[OldCraig71]

Subban trade was more evidence that management operates with personal agenda. No doubt if it was a hockey trade only PK goes nowhere unless a top center is coming back in return. But MB and MT disliked him and put that ahead of the team.
However the Subban trade I do not believe was the start of it all. We seen in 016 how bad this team could preform without great goaltending. Price went out and this team on the ice did not just feel the hit. They crumbled. This team was in trouble with Subban. But trading him made it worse.

They took Weber because anyone but Subban right? I agree that it should have been for a center or no trade. Now we are stuck with a hobbled older Weber and we will suffer for years because of it.

 

[Canadienna]

Yesterday was the time to try Galchenyuk at C (Danault not playing). They are really scarred that it could work, that way they won´t need to explain why they haven´t done it before during the season if Galchenyuk should work at C. Galchenyuk was playing better at C whent he played then Drouin. Drouin is more a winger so why not try. What can we lose? When you Google Pigheaded, it should come up with the faces of Claude Julien and Marc Bergevin in top of the list. I´m this close on changing team and i´m 47 with the heart stamped with the CH but can´t accept what is happening this year.

I think this is an important point here (despite the spelling error). As far as I see it's the only logical reason to have not put Chucky at C despite our lack of C depth and all of our C injuries this year.

If Galchenyuk were to explode at C, which we have seen before, and by my measure would not be a surprise, it would indeed make Bergevin look terribly bad for his "Chucky is a winger" speech at the start of the year.

Management are trying to save face and in the process are intentionally holding this team back.

 

[LaP]

Bergevin is on the ropes and when I look back it was the trade of Subban that started it all so things do have a way of working themselves out.

MB is not on the ropes. He'll trade AG this summer and he'll use the media to make it looks like AG was the root of all problems. He'll add character. Everyone will be happy.

 

[JLP]

Yesterday was the time to try Galchenyuk at C (Danault not playing). They are really scarred that it could work, that way they won´t need to explain why they haven´t done it before during the season if Galchenyuk should work at C. Galchenyuk was playing better at C whent he played then Drouin. Drouin is more a winger so why not try. What can we lose? When you Google Pigheaded, it should come up with the faces of Claude Julien and Marc Bergevin in top of the list. I´m this close on changing team and i´m 47 with the heart stamped with the CH but can´t accept what is happening this year.

Welcome to the club. The Montreal Canadiens are no longer a city sports team first and foremost now they are a national cultural property under the protection of RDS, JdM, Bergevin, and their stooge Molson lol. A Desharnais, a Danault or a Drouin is a much better fit than a Galchenyuk because identity has been prioritized over performance. Yeah that blows but this is the team Quebec wants and this is the team they get. Bergy is a hero for many.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Very well said Craig, LG also has a great post on this matter.

The organization uses the media to launch balloons all the time to try and influence the fan base.

What I find interesting is that never in all his years here did it come out that Subban was late for all these practices, yet all of a sudden a few months before they pull the trigger that comes out? It’s not a coincidence and there’s a good chance it’s purely fabricated to fit their decision.

The Subban trade is the time stamp on the Bergevin era that everyone can look back on and say “that’s where it all started to fall apart”.

Actually, it came out after he was traded. A key point. Because if he was here he'd have been asked about it and given a chance to talk about it.

 

[Prometheus1]

Part of my love for the team died when P.K was traded.. There is no responsibility with this team. No excuses become excuses, put the blame on one player, favouritism, the team crumbles and nothing happens. Rotten from top to bottom. I dont even watch some games anymore its so boring. Sigh..

People have to stop showing up to the games and stop spending their money

 

[WeThreeKings]

Daniel Carr.. someone who has never played C.. is playing there ahead of Galchenyuk.

In a season that is long since dead.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Daniel Carr.. someone who has never played C.. is playing there ahead of Galchenyuk.

In a season that is long since dead.

You can’t make this shit up.

 

[groovejuice]

Change teams then...you’re 47... you’re 47!! And you’re crying on a hockey board.....

Jingoistic, "my country right or wrong" claptrap.

 

[MasterD]

Is julien still the savior everyone expected?

He's nothing more than a well spoken therrien

I don't remember the majority of posters being especially happy with having Julien on board... We were mostly happy that Therrien was gone.

Most people wanted Boucher... Wether or not it would have been a better choice, we'll never know.

 

[groovejuice]

Media report anything they get their hands on. In this case it was unflattering to Subban. In other cases they dug up unflattering stories about Therrien. Funny that people aren't claiming the Therrien rumours were invented by the media. Sure, one or two journalists get things wrong all the time, but when there's a seeming consensus it usually is what it is. Subban is a great player and cool guy who was disliked in the Habs locker room. Point finale. Still a lousy reason to trade him, but that's another story.

It's not the final point and it really shouldn't be. If there was a rift in the locker room, it came under the purview of the coach and GM to put a stop to it, not throw fuel into the fire.

You don't demolish your team because you haven't got the BASIC HR skills to deal with a little common human conflict. This exposes a level of stupidity and incompetence in management that should never exist in the realm of professional sports, or anywhere else for that matter.

Based on what we've actually heard both Therrien and Bergevin say in public, I'm not sure how anyone can so easily dismiss their culpability and quite possibly active contrivance in the whole pathetic episode.

It reeks @Lshap, and is a defining episode of this pathetic group of annihilators.

 

[Price is Wright]

Is julien still the savior everyone expected?

He's nothing more than a well spoken therrien

I can't believe how many people forgot our hated Bruins rival constantly complaining about Julien for several years about how much the team won in spite of him, only to celebrate when he became available just because he wasn't Therrien.

 

[MaxDummy]

The team got destroyed 5-0 and a whole bunch of players look lost defensively.

The season is over.

What is the harm in trying?

He would produce. Can't let that happen, too many people will look like fools

 

[MaxDummy]

Daniel Carr.. someone who has never played C.. is playing there ahead of Galchenyuk.

In a season that is long since dead.

No? Are you for real here?

 

[OldCraig71]

MB is not on the ropes. He'll trade AG this summer and he'll use the media to make it looks like AG was the root of all problems. He'll add character. Everyone will be happy.

He can trade AG and if it mirrors any of his past trades the media will have to defend him for yet another blunder. How long can they continue to basically throw away their credibility to continue towing the company line for a terrible gm? The on ice results no matter how you try and twist them cannot be denied.

This a really bad team, they can't make it something it's not. The people of Quebec are some of the most knowledgeable hockey fans in the world and frankly it is an insult to their intelligence, it would be to me if I lived there. Who wants local players if they are not as good as the players from elsewhere? This has to eventually stop, at least I hope so.

 

[OldCraig71]

I don't remember the majority of posters being especially happy with having Julien on board... We were mostly happy that Therrien was gone.

Most people wanted voucher... Wether or not it would have been a better choice, we'll never know.

Agreed. I would have been happy with Youppi back there just to see Therrien go. We got Clode because he was the best available french speaking candidate, that is all.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Patrick Roy asked to be traded
Gretzky trade though shocking was arranged I believe with the NHL/Edm and LA and was done to garner more exposure for the NHL in a struggling US market.
Yesterday you mentioned the Bourque(I think I spelled it right this time Ozy) was a done out of respect for him and trying to get him a cup.
As for Orr, I believe his knees were done and he was at the end of his career.(one more try)

The Subban trade made no sense and up until he was traded all we heard through the Montreal media were derogatory things about Subban.
-All he cared about was his brand
-He was bigger than the CH
-His teammates didn't like him
-He was a disturbance in the room
-He was singled out by his coach on TV
-He was late for something like 20 practices
-He missed other important team functions

Bergevin when asked said that Subban would be a hab for a very long time and then trades him for a guy 4 years older. Was that trade done out of need or was it done just to get rid of him and made to look like Bergevin had no other choice because the distraction of Subban was too great? If it were a hockey trade(which I could accept) why did he not try and address a team need? Weber was not a team need. Subban himself in the just for laughs stand up routine alluded to the fact that management did not want him, it was definitely never the fans. The smear campaign was heavy, it had to be, it's not like they were trading Travis Moen. There had to be some sort of justification to make such a senseless trade. I don't think that Bergevin had one so they sort of manufactured everything they could. 2 years later Therrien is gone and the team is at one of it's lowest points in it's history. Bergevin is on the ropes and when I look back it was the trade of Subban that started it all so things do have a way of working themselves out.

Hey, I wasnt dissin bro. It was a blast from the past seeing Bourque's name written like that.