Classic Wrestling Discussion (as in non-current): Part II

[Emperoreddy]

I had blocked out so much of that Diesel run on purpose because it was so bad, but man Mabel f***ing sucked.

Was Shawn a face at this point? I don’t recall what turned him this year.

 

[Kimi]

I think he was a face by this point, having turned after 'Mania.

 

[Loosie]

Shawn turned after WrestleMania XI, and didn't turn again until Summerslam 1997. You could tell he was turning face though because despite being the arrogant shit that he was in real life (at that time) on camera Vince was all buddy-buddy with him leading up to the Royal Rumble.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Shawn turned after WrestleMania XI, and didn't turn again until Summerslam 1997. You could tell he was turning face though because despite being the arrogant **** that he was in real life (at that time) on camera Vince was all buddy-buddy with him leading up to the Royal Rumble.

Was it Sid turning on him that turned him? I remember him being heel at X1, and after he lost Diesel took his female escort to rub salt in the wound.

God this is reminding me how i despise Kevin Nash.

 

[ColePens]

Looking up the rating in the database, it's easily one of the worse. It's up there with King of the Ring 1995 for being the actual worst.

The worst ten on Cage Match are (worst to 'best'):

1. King of the Ring 1995
2. December to Dismember 2006
3. Fastlane 2017
4. Wrestlemania II (1986)*
5. Battleground 2017
6. The Great American Bash 2004
7. In Your House 4: Great White North (1995)
8. The Wrestling Classic
9. Wrestlemania XI (1995)
10. The Great American Bast 2005

* Wrestlemania II was the one from three venues, the rank is for the first venue. Second is 18 and third is 26. An average score for the three parts would put them at about 7th.

Surprised no WM9 on there. That usually gets crapped on big time. When I was like real young, i'd rent it on VHS like ever weekend. Something about wrestling outside blew my mind as a kid.

 

[JackSlater]

Surprised no WM9 on there. That usually gets crapped on big time. When I was like real young, i'd rent it on VHS like ever weekend. Something about wrestling outside blew my mind as a kid.

You are not alone. For a long time that was my favourite PPV setting.

 

[Kimi]

Surprised no WM9 on there. That usually gets crapped on big time. When I was like real young, i'd rent it on VHS like ever weekend. Something about wrestling outside blew my mind as a kid.

That show is all the way down at rank 48 with a rating of 4.56/10.

It's part of the giant group form 4~5/10 that goes from about rank 20 to 80+. Those are the 'bad' shows, opposed to the 'terrible' I guess. Here is the full list if you want to have a look.

 

[Emperoreddy]

WM9 isn’t really next level terrible from start to finish.

It isn’t good, but it is still an acceptable wrestling PPV.

I would say both WM2 and 4 are worse. 2 is just a mess production wise with the multiple locations, and 4 is painfully long and boring.

11 is worse as well. It is so bad and that main event has to easily be the worst in Mania history.

 

[Loosie]

Was it Sid turning on him that turned him? I remember him being heel at X1, and after he lost Diesel took his female escort to rub salt in the wound.

God this is reminding me how i despise Kevin Nash.

That was the official turn yes. It was the RAW after WM XI, Sid powerbombed him three times after Michaels lambasted him for not helping/getting in the way the night before. Shawn also took some time off after that.

 

[Loosie]

WM9 isn’t really next level terrible from start to finish.

It isn’t good, but it is still an acceptable wrestling PPV.

I would say both WM2 and 4 are worse. 2 is just a mess production wise with the multiple locations, and 4 is painfully long and boring.

11 is worse as well. It is so bad and that main event has to easily be the worst in Mania history.

9 wasn't bad, but I always say I'm biased with 9 as it was my first WrestleMania. The issue with 9 was not the wrestling or the matches itself but the results, and the self-pleasing Hogan finish. So many non-clean wonky finishes as well.

Tatanka won by countout when really he should have won the title.
The Doink/Crush finish with the twin clowns was not clean, but in this case effective (there were just too many other funky finishes)
Money Inc retained the titles when the Hulkamaniacs were DQd (which in hindsight was a huge red flag)
Perfect and Luger match was lackluster because Perfect's back was beyond f***ed by this time. And if I'm not mistaken another screwy-type finish.
The Undertaker streak was kept alive (even though is was only an infantile 3-0 at this point) by a 'cloroform'-soaked cloth.
And then the whole 'Yoko challenges Hogan' ending.

The clean endings were a really entertaining tag team brawl between the Steiners and the Headshrinkers, and an oddly placed Razor Ramon squash of Backlund.

 

[The Lemonheads]

I know Papa Shango had a dark match with someone at WM9. Should made the main card. I liked that character.

Except when he made Ultimate Warrior puke like madman. Who booked that garbage.

 

[Loosie]

I know Papa Shango had a dark match with someone at WM9. Should made the main card. I liked that character.

Except when he made Ultimate Warrior puke like madman. Who booked that garbage.

I believe it was Tito Santana at the tail end of his career (while he was in the horrible 'El Matador' character) and stands as Tito's first WM win since WrestleMania I.

 

[Engebretson]

That show is all the way down at rank 48 with a rating of 4.56/10.

It's part of the giant group form 4~5/10 that goes from about rank 20 to 80+. Those are the 'bad' shows, opposed to the 'terrible' I guess. Here is the full list if you want to have a look.

Wow, Royal Rumble '95 is way higher on that list than I thought it would be (ranked #247 worst show). It was one of my favorites when I was a kid, but the Rumble match always got crapped on because of the lack of star power (Duke Droese, Jimmy Del Ray, Timothy Well, MANTOUR (!), Steven Dunn). Bunch of HOF'ers in that group for sure! It was always obvious that HBK was winning because he had almost nobody on his level in the match. The Diesel/Hart match was always good and I enjoyed the run-ins with Owen, HBK and Backlund that tied into Diesel and Bret's current underlying feuds and the subsequent interference of Bret during Owen's entrance to the Rumble.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, that whole Tito Santana "El Matador" thing was terrible wasn't it? I've heard the rumor as well that Santana was considered for the main event run that Bret got. Anything's better than that bull fighter gimmick he got.

 

[alko]

Another guy i remember from my "active duty" (watching wrestling in 90s).

Accidentally saw this article and there is something like this:

However, as the wrestling podcast, documentary, and tell all book markets have taken off, a lot of incriminating information has come up about him. These points range from having a scissor fight with Arn Anderson to nearly killing Brian Pillman with a pair of ill advised power bombs in War Games, where the roof of the cage was too low do deliver the move safely. Add on top of that allegations of him feigning injuries, and more recently no showing indie appearances, and you have a guy folks don’t have much sympathy for anymore.

Do you have more info?

This guy has is all to be a superstar. Big monster with muscles with some charisma. But he also never achieved, what he could.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Ummm, he was 2x (each) WWF and WCW Heavyweight champion. He may not have been the very top superstar in his day, but very few are and he was pretty dang close to that. His heel promo's legitimately terrified me as a kid with how much anger and aggression was in both his voice and facial expressions. Freak physical specimen with a shitty hairstyle = perfect combination in my book.

 

[GarbageGoal]

Sid got multiple big pushes, including main eventing WM 8, but I really never cared for him.

 

[Loosie]

The scissor fight has been known for a long time. As far as no-showing...is it softball season?

Sid had the look and the tools, but his promos were not always great, he was never a quick thinking guy. His promos tended to ramble on and on, and once he asked JR if he could restart a promo during a live PPV broadcast.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think a lot of these threads could be handled in the classic wrestling thread, no?

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

The scissor fight has been known for a long time. As far as no-showing...is it softball season?

Sid had the look and the tools, but his promos were not always great, he was never a quick thinking guy. His promos tended to ramble on and on, and once he asked JR if he could restart a promo during a live PPV broadcast.

sometimes his promo's were comedy gold because he just wasn't a fast thinker

“You're only half the man that I am, and I have half the brain that you do.”
-- Sid Vicious

 

[Disclose]

will always remember that broken leg in wcw. freak moment out of nowhere.

 

[JackSlater]

Pretty similar to Luger. Had a look that Vince salivated over, wasn't a particularly good wrestler, wasn't a good talker, couldn't sustain momentum. Sid would get a reaction at first but it always petered out over time. I enjoyed his work as Psycho Sid though.

 

[ManofSteel55]

The scissor fight has been known for a long time. As far as no-showing...is it softball season?

Sid had the look and the tools, but his promos were not always great, he was never a quick thinking guy. His promos tended to ramble on and on, and once he asked JR if he could restart a promo during a live PPV broadcast.

Sid recently came out and said the skipping work/faking injuries for softball was made up. It came about because he was recovering from an injury, went to WCW TV, they told him to go home and bulk up, so he played softball while he was home putting on muscle.

Vince wanted Sid to be "the next Hogan". Sid hated being face. So Vince tried making him the next monster heel. He didn't like WWE backstage, so he went back to WCW. He was good, but not great for a big man in the ring. Good character usually. Promos that ranged from bad to good, depending on the night. I think his personality just rubbed some guys the wrong way. He didn't live and die over the business, so people took offense and labelled him as lazy or uncommitted.

 

[alko]

I think a lot of these threads could be handled in the classic wrestling thread, no?

No.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Yes.