Classic Wrestling Discussion (as in non-current): Part II

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ManofSteel55

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Yeah, that whole Tito Santana "El Matador" thing was terrible wasn't it? I've heard the rumor as well that Santana was considered for the main event run that Bret got. Anything's better than that bull fighter gimmick he got.
I've heard that one too, from pretty reliable sources I think. The choice was to try to run shows in Canada or Mexico, and they opted with Canada so Bret got the belt.
 

Loosie

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If that was in today's day and age Tito would have likely gotten a small token run with the belt for being a long term soldier (like Mark Henry, Kane and Big Show's later runs)

I always felt that was the reason behind Piper's IC title win. (That and Piper/Hart sounds much better on paper then Mountie/Hart)
 

M.C.G. 31

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I merged them. That's the point of the classic wrestling discussion thread, and yeah, it being more active is definitely better.
 

Emperoreddy

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I was never a big fan of Sid. His quiet promos that randomly got loud didn’t click for me, and I can’t take that poodle head seriously.

I did enjoy Taker taking the belt off him at Mania as a Taker mark, even if that match is pretty damn far down the list of streak matches.
 

tony d

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I liked Sid, he had the look to be such a major monster heel. It's to bad he could never stay focused because if he wanted to he could have been 1 of the all time greats.
 

reckoning

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I've heard that one too, from pretty reliable sources I think. The choice was to try to run shows in Canada or Mexico, and they opted with Canada so Bret got the belt.
They wanted somebody as champion who could work a heavy schedule, could carry anybody to a good match, was in good shape without looking like they were on juice, would represent the WWF well publicly, and would never be involved in anything that might embarrass the company.

Tito checked all the boxes, but so did Bret. At the time Tito had fallen so far down the card and lost so many matches that putting him as champion wouldn't be believable.
 

ManofSteel55

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They wanted somebody as champion who could work a heavy schedule, could carry anybody to a good match, was in good shape without looking like they were on juice, would represent the WWF well publicly, and would never be involved in anything that might embarrass the company.

Tito checked all the boxes, but so did Bret. At the time Tito had fallen so far down the card and lost so many matches that putting him as champion wouldn't be believable.
Sure, that's a big part of it too. They were absolutely looking to run more international shows as well though, given the state of sales dropping domestically. They thought Bret would sell in Canada better than Tito in Mexico, so that played into it too.
 

Pocket Hercules

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I've heard that one too, from pretty reliable sources I think. The choice was to try to run shows in Canada or Mexico, and they opted with Canada so Bret got the belt.

Thank god they made the right decision. Nothing against Tito as he was still a solid worker around this time, but Bret was on a whole other level imo. Just watching heel Bret Hart circa 1997 is a thing of beauty. He was the best wrestler in the business that year -- bar none.
 

Loosie

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So I just got to the Radicalz debut at the end of January 2000. First time watching anything with Benoit for quite a while. (I did a PPV watch thru a couple of years ago, this time though I'm adding RAWs and Smackdowns in)

At first seeing him it was just natural to see him, however he performed his diving headbutt on Road Dogg and you clearly see him shaking his head not only right after but his whole way up the ramp as well. Hindsight makes that very scary to watch.
 

Kimi

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There are some really terrible things all over WWE and WCW at that time. Rock smashing people's heads in with chairs being particularly horrific.
 

Loosie

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There are some really terrible things all over WWE and WCW at that time. Rock smashing people's heads in with chairs being particularly horrific.

the Rumble match with Foley in 99 is particularly difficult to watch. But even past that there have been so many unprotected chair shots to the head it's really scary.

Big Show, Kane, Taker have all taken a ton, and that's not counting the hardcore division.
 

Kimi

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Yeah, that's the match I was thinking of most (I'm watching along with Alvarez's re-watch show, which just gone past that bit).

Another match a couple of years later is the Benoit vs Jericho ladder match, also at the Rumble. That dive by Benoit into a chair shot is insanely stupid. That one really stands out when I think of headshots too.


It's just really crazy when you watch and see how little anyone seemed to care. They even joke on commentary about it too, which is even more crazy.
 

Kimi

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Borga came to WWE during the all-american Luger push, where he was to be a foreign monster heel for him to beat.

The problem was that Borga was terrible. He was just a muscle head with no skill or ability, he was very much a Vince guy in that regard. He also had problems backstage and had a massive ego, which is why his push in NJPW as a monster boxer was killed (he was in Japan before going to WWF).

Then he broke is ankle and quit. I don't know exactly why, but I can't see WWE really being interested in trying to keep him.
 

JackSlater

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Ludvig Borga - crazy Finn, that ended Tatankas undefeated run. What could be from this guy? Why he left the WWF only after few months?

As a kid I was legitimately afraid of Ludvig Borga, one of only two wrestlers I ever feared. I have no idea why though, he was just a generic bigish guy. I saw one of his matches recently and he was not good at all.
 
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alko

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As a kid I was legitimately afraid of Ludvig Borga, one of only two wrestlers I ever feared. I have no idea why though, he was just a generic bigish guy. I saw one of his matches recently and he was not good at all.

Who was the second one?

Btw. Lets go back to Tatanka. And his 2 years (?) undefeated streak. Why did the guys from WWF this terrible decision to his persona? What was the idea behind it? To make some Wrestlemania match vs Undertaker?
 

JackSlater

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Who was the second one?

Btw. Lets go back to Tatanka. And his 2 years (?) undefeated streak. Why did the guys from WWF this terrible decision to his persona? What was the idea behind it? To make some Wrestlemania match vs Undertaker?

Papa Shango.
 

Loosie

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Who was the second one?

Btw. Lets go back to Tatanka. And his 2 years (?) undefeated streak. Why did the guys from WWF this terrible decision to his persona? What was the idea behind it? To make some Wrestlemania match vs Undertaker?

Those weren't a big deal at that time. I think there were two incidents that hurt Tatanka. The countout 'win' at WM IX against Shawn Michaels. It really should have been a pinfall win for Tatanka and a run with the IC Belt.

The other one was the really horrible heel turn. First it was obvious despite WWF playing up the "did Luger sell out" angle, second he was a horrible heel despite being in the Million Dollar Corporation.
 

ManofSteel55

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Who was the second one?

Btw. Lets go back to Tatanka. And his 2 years (?) undefeated streak. Why did the guys from WWF this terrible decision to his persona? What was the idea behind it? To make some Wrestlemania match vs Undertaker?
By the time they ended his streak, Tatanka had lost a lot of the wind from his sails anyway. The streak was played out and boring, and he hadn't established much else about himself to help get him over. He should have won the IC title from HBK at Wrestlemania 9. He was given little in terms of decent feuds outside of that HBK feud, even what should have been a good one with Bam Bam Bigelow felt off. It's hard to get a guy over when you only have him feud with shmoes, even if he does win all the time.

Then, even when his momentum was basically gone, they had him turn on Lex Luger and join Ted Dibiase's corporation, and that is where careers basically went to die at that point. He was lost in the shuffle in the corporation and never had much chance to do anything other than particiapte in random tag matches where he would lose. He was never pegged to go against Undertaker though, Taker was always put against monsters at that point.

He never should have turned heel, he looked like a face and couldn't work as a heel to save his life.
 

Engebretson

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As a kid I was legitimately afraid of Ludvig Borga, one of only two wrestlers I ever feared. I have no idea why though, he was just a generic bigish guy. I saw one of his matches recently and he was not good at all.

I remember being afraid of Taker back when he and Hogan were feuding around Survivor Series 1991. Back when I was an impressionable young lad with no knowledge of kayfabe and Taker was a giant zombie monster, I was completely terrified of the guy.

Also, Papa Shango after he made Ultimate Warrior convulse and vomit. Again, was not familiar with kayfabe at the time and I was not cool with some voodoo witch doctor making my favorite wrestlers ill.
 
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