Classic Wrestling Discussion (as in non-current): Part II

[Belieber]

The thing about him in WCW is he was never really in a position to have great matches due to how he was kept down along with all the other non-Hogan guys. So while he had a bunch of good matches with all the guys you'd expect (Malenko, Ultimo Dragon, Juventud, Eddie, Mysterio, Benoit, and so on) I don't think he really had a great match. Obviously his promos and everything were top notch once he found his character, but unfortunately he was never pushed as far as he should have been until he left.

For some more matches, this link has a lot of them. The match guide for wrestlers on that site is really good for finding matches to watch of a particular guy, or the show of a match you know was good already.

Thanks for that link, exactly what I need!

 

[ColePens]

Why did WWE edit a lot of the WCW old school PPVs to include or exclude what they need? The Jericho edits are the worst.

 

[Kimi]

Why did WWE edit a lot of the WCW old school PPVs to include or exclude what they need? The Jericho edits are the worst.

All they've done is remove/replace the music on mass.

They don't have the licence to use most of it (nor did WCW in many cases), so they just replace it with either their WWE theme or something generic. It's the same for ECW, and all the old NWA-WCW and other territory shows. It's not worth the trouble or money to negotiate the licences with all of it, so they didn't bother as nothing of real value is lost.

The only stuff I know they've actually removed are live music performances, which is really the same problem.


That being said, if it's a PPV show then it's probably the home video/DVD release that's been uploaded to the Network. Those were edited for time and to remove bad botches or injuries when originally released and thus the edits carry over.

 

[joshyhockey26]

All they've done is remove/replace the music on mass.

They don't have the licence to use most of it (nor did WCW in many cases), so they just replace it with either their WWE theme or something generic. It's the same for ECW, and all the old NWA-WCW and other territory shows. It's not worth the trouble or money to negotiate the licences with all of it, so they didn't bother as nothing of real value is lost.

The only stuff I know they've actually removed are live music performances, which is really the same problem.


That being said, if it's a PPV show then it's probably the home video/DVD release that's been uploaded to the Network. Those were edited for time and to remove bad botches or injuries when originally released and thus the edits carry over.

Yea I’m pretty sure 99% of ECW’s entrance music has been taken out.

 

[Belieber]

Man was Jericho awesome. That Wrestlemania 19 match with HBK was beautiful, loved the low blow after the match.

I watched all of his Undisputed Title ppv matches and actually enjoyed them a lot, I don't think HHH vs Jericho was a good ending to Wrestlemania though, totally overshadowed by the Rock smacking Hogan around.

 

[JackSlater]

Letter to My Younger Self | By Diamond Dallas Page

Good article from DDP. Covers a lot of his career and features some interesting anecdotes. I always enjoy hearing about the weird connections between wrestlers over the years.

Also... by far the longest thing I have ever seen on that website.

 

[alko]

I think that's accurate. I don't think the first version of the Austin 3:16 shirt had the smoke.

3:16 - What actually mean this? Can you explain it?

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

3:16 - What actually mean this? Can you explain it?

John 3:16 is a famous/popular bible passage. After Austin won the King of The Ring in 1996 he cut a promo saying "talk about your psalms, talk about John 3:16, Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass."

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Plus who could forget the line with Vince and the "Bang 3:16" gun segment.

"McMahon 3:16....says I just pissed my pants."

 

[sabremike]

All they've done is remove/replace the music on mass.

They don't have the licence to use most of it (nor did WCW in many cases), so they just replace it with either their WWE theme or something generic. It's the same for ECW, and all the old NWA-WCW and other territory shows. It's not worth the trouble or money to negotiate the licences with all of it, so they didn't bother as nothing of real value is lost.

The only stuff I know they've actually removed are live music performances, which is really the same problem.


That being said, if it's a PPV show then it's probably the home video/DVD release that's been uploaded to the Network. Those were edited for time and to remove bad botches or injuries when originally released and thus the edits carry over.

There are also edits out of any references to a certain wrestler who killed his family in lots of the WCW footage. When there is a period of silence in a match from that time frame that is usually the reason why.

 

[Kimi]

There are also edits out of any references to a certain wrestler who killed his family in lots of the WCW footage. When there is a period of silence in a match from that time frame that is usually the reason why.

Benoit isn't actively edited out of anything for the Network. (Except for his matches not being on the show timelines or in search results.)

Any mentions of him that have been removed would have been done for older releases of the shows, not for the Network it's self.

 

[sabremike]

Benoit isn't actively edited out of anything for the Network. (Except for his matches not being on the show timelines or in search results.)

Any mentions of him that have been removed would have been done for older releases of the shows, not for the Network it's self.

OK. I just remember an Eddie-Otahni match from Starrcade 95 that was on a DVD where it was obvious there was a sound edit because they were discussing Benoit.

 

[JJ68]

It's not like Austin was an obvious big star in waiting in WCW. He was just another good wrestler that wasn't going to get a chance because it was Hogan's show. Loads of guys were in similar spots. When he moved to WWF he didn't instantly become a star either, it was a long process. And after that it was still a bit of a wait to become the massive star he did become with the Vince stuff.

Thank Bret...he saw a ton in Austin and said I wanna work with this guy. Bret was a great guy for doing great work with everyone and trying his best to get the mid card guys over so as to make the company that much better. Bret as a champ worked with guys like Hakushi and the kid among others...he was very giving in that way. He helped the Rock.

Whereas you get HBK and he only wants to work with his buddies and dont even ask him to make someone else go over. The guy was a shit even to the Rock when he first came on the scene.

 

[Loosie]

Boy you sure heard HHH's theme a ton in post SummerSlam 99 RAWs/Smackdowns.

He would come out at least 3 times a show, then for a while Chyna used the theme as well (before she got her own theme).

 

[Emperoreddy]

Taker’s Ain’t No Grave entrance. It isn’t on the DVD or the network where his regular theme was dubbed over.

Speaking of this match. The build for this was Taker in that old house right? Weren’t those vignettes originally meant to be teasing Sting and was going to lead to Taker vs Sting ?

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Yes. @Emperoreddy

 

[Emperoreddy]

I completely forgot until this weekend that Punk was on WWECW.

Also I forgot how bad WWECW was. December to Dismember. Woof. Has to be top 10 of worst WWE PPVs ever, right?

 

[Kimi]

I completely forgot until this weekend that Punk was on WWECW.

Also I forgot how bad WWECW was. December to Dismember. Woof. Has to be top 10 of worst WWE PPVs ever, right?

Looking up the rating in the database, it's easily one of the worse. It's up there with King of the Ring 1995 for being the actual worst.

The worst ten on Cage Match are (worst to 'best'):

1. King of the Ring 1995
2. December to Dismember 2006
3. Fastlane 2017
4. Wrestlemania II (1986)*
5. Battleground 2017
6. The Great American Bash 2004
7. In Your House 4: Great White North (1995)
8. The Wrestling Classic
9. Wrestlemania XI (1995)
10. The Great American Bast 2005

* Wrestlemania II was the one from three venues, the rank is for the first venue. Second is 18 and third is 26. An average score for the three parts would put them at about 7th.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Why don't I remember Fastlane 2017 or Battleground 2017 at all? Was I lucky enough to not watch them?

oh Fastlane the Goldberg PPV where they also had Cesaro vs. Mahal and Show vs. Rusev randomly added into the middle of the show, had Reigns pin Strowman clean and Goldberg over Owens in 20 seconds. Riiiiight. What the hell was Battleground

punjabi prison and the flag match lmfao

 

[Emperoreddy]

King of the Ring 95. Man I thought i wiped that completely from my mind.

What the hell was WWE doing with Brett at that point?

 

[Kimi]

Why don't I remember Fastlane 2017 or Battleground 2017 at all? Was I lucky enough to not watch them?

oh Fastlane the Goldberg PPV where they also had Cesaro vs. Mahal and Show vs. Rusev randomly added into the middle of the show, had Reigns pin Strowman clean and Goldberg over Owens in 20 seconds. Riiiiight. What the hell was Battleground

punjabi prison and the flag match lmfao

I had the exact same reaction lol. I had no recollection of those shows at all until I looked at the cards. Normally I remember why something is bad, those I just completely blacked out.

I'm going to have to go back and re-watch them at some point to see if they really are completely terrible level bad, or if it's just the booking that everyone is hating on.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

I remember watching Fastlane. I remember only watching the last part of Battleground because I was coming back from Montreal and refused to watch the beginning of the show except for The Usos.

 

[Loosie]

King of the Ring 95. Man I thought i wiped that completely from my mind.

What the hell was WWE doing with Brett at that point?

The best part was Michaels coming out, putting the crown on his head and everyone seeing it was way too big. Way to spoil the end there HBK.

Also a tournament in which you have BOTH Undertaker and HBK in it and the final is Mabel vs. Savio Vega.....

As far as what they were doing with Bret? I do believe the Kliq was firmly entrenched in Vince's ear at this point and that is why Bret wasn't near the title until Survivor Series when it was obvious to Vince that the Diesel experiment was horrible.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, King of the Ring 95 was pretty bad. King Mabel (May he RIP) was a bad idea. A Michaels/Undertaker KOTR final could have happened but we got Mabel/Savio Vega.

 

[Kimi]

At least Mabel (probably) made some amount of sense in the brain of Vince ('look at the size of him!') in that he was going to build a threat for Diesel to beat. 1995 was meant to be the start of the three year Diesel reign as champion, so you need a lot of guys for him to defend against.

The resulting matches were going to be terrible still, but that was never an issue to care about back then.