Prospect Info: Charles Hudon Part II

[Kudo Shinichi]

I believe we are deeper in depth heading into this year vs last year. This is the main reason why I think it's hard to find a spot for Hudon. And I don't believe Hudon is fighting against Martinsen or Holland. I think Hudon is fighting for a spot against Hemsky, DLR, McCarron. IMO, in order to get value from Hudon and his vision, he needs to play in the top 9. I'm just not sure where I would put him and who he would replace

Hudon has shown in the past (small sample size) that he can produce even on the 4th line. Also, if Hudon is a legit top 9 nhl player, he should still look good playing on the 4th line (like byron and danault did last season).

The 4th line to start the season is likely going to be Hudon - McCarron/Mitchell/De la rose - Hemsky.
Hudon will have the chance to climb in the lineup during the season.
Also Hudon is a shooter and Hemsky is a playmaker, so they could potentially have good chemistry.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Hudon has shown in the past (small sample size) that he can produce even on the 4th line. Also, if Hudon is a legit top 9 nhl player, he should still look good playing on the 4th line (like byron and danault did last season).

The 4th line to start the season is likely going to be Hudon - McCarron/Mitchell/De la rose - Hemsky.
Hudon will have the chance to climb in the lineup during the season.
Also Hudon is a shooter and Hemsky is a playmaker, so they could potentially have good chemistry.

I'm happy with those combinations, although I'd prefer to think that we're beyond the days of Mitchell's use to the team. Not to drink too much McCagg-aid, but I think there's also a chance DLR and McCarron both come in looking like they belong more than Hudon, leaving something like DLR-McCarron-Hemsky?

 

[the]

I thought Bergevin said he was the one to step up and replace Radulov?

 

[OldCraig71]

I thought Bergevin said he was the one to step up and replace Radulov?

Bergevin also said for us to expect the unexpected as well and tbh I have not exactly been a MB supporter but there is no way in my wildest dreams that I expected that we would be sitting here on August 15th with no Markov or Radulov and a ton of salary cap space, he came through on his promise.

 

[Scriptor]

Hudon has shown in the past (small sample size) that he can produce even on the 4th line. Also, if Hudon is a legit top 9 nhl player, he should still look good playing on the 4th line (like byron and danault did last season).

The 4th line to start the season is likely going to be Hudon - McCarron/Mitchell/De la rose - Hemsky.
Hudon will have the chance to climb in the lineup during the season.
Also Hudon is a shooter and Hemsky is a playmaker, so they could potentially have good chemistry.

This is true. Hem sky, who is faster than Hudon, also has a history of being sent out to gain the O-zone in control of the puck. I could see planned plays with Hudon trailing on the play to set up for a one-timer feed from Hemsky as he carves a loop to buy his linemate time

They could play together, but they could also play apart. There are ways to have them both in the lineup most of the time.

Hudon - McCarron - Hemsky could be interesting. The veteran presence could support two younger players who already have found chemistry playing together at a lower level in the past. Mitchell could also play right wing with them and bring a securing presence to the two youngsters.

I wouldn't mind Hudon on a fourth line, provided that Julien roles out his lies and doesn't limit his fourth line to 4-5 minutes a night. That would be a waste of time as far as Hudon's or MacCarron's development goes.

I could also see Hudon on a third line, but considering that Julien likely won't be playing veterans like Plekanec or Shaw on the 4th line, a winger would need to be traded for a C in order for Hudon to get a crack at LW on a third line, IMO.

Danault would also need to have fallen to 3rd line C on the depth chart and for Galchenyuk to be one of the two top-6 Cs (along with the newly acquired C). It would probably be Hudon - Danault - Hemsky at that point (especially since I'm considering that Gallagher will likely be the winger that is sacrificed in a trade, not Pacioretty).

Plenty of options with Hudon in it, without handing him a choice spot without him working for it.

 

[montreal]

He's never been that....ever

since he was drafted I started watching him, he always seemed good in his own end and played with some sandpaper. To me I was always surprised he didn't get his teeth knocked down his throat as over the years I've seen him yapping at much bigger guys after the whistle and sticking his nose in to mix things up and I would think he's going to get punched in the face but then doesn't.

since when ? This isn't rhetorical. How much grit can a 5'10 190 pound forward have ? We are talking about Hudon, correct ? He fits the prototupical habs mold " undersized skilled winger with some upside".

I don't know anyone who describes him as either defensively responsible or that he brings the sandpaper.

To me a 5'10 190 pound forward can have as much grit as anyone, a lack of height is overrated imo, I would take someone with great core strength in a compact frame over some 6'5 beanpool that has poor balance/lower body strength.

I would certainly describe Hudon as defensively responsible and that he has some sandpaper to his game.

 

[Scriptor]

since he was drafted I started watching him, he always seemed good in his own end and played with some sandpaper. To me I was always surprised he didn't get his teeth knocked down his throat as over the years I've seen him yapping at much bigger guys after the whistle and sticking his nose in to mix things up and I would think he's going to get punched in the face but then doesn't.



To me a 5'10 190 pound forward can have as much grit as anyone, a lack of height is overrated imo, I would take someone with great core strength in a compact frame over some 6'5 beanpool that has poor balance/lower body strength.

I would certainly describe Hudon as defensively responsible and that he has some sandpaper to his game.

He's an average NHL skater in that he doesn't have the acceleration from a standstill to beat opponents, but he's not a laborious skater anything like Dwight King, for example.

I'm glad you mentioned that he has improved and become a defensively responsible forward. It used to be a knock against him (his D game) and, unfortunately, for some, they still believe it's a glaring weakness for Hudon. This is no longer the case, IMO.

 

[sandysan]

To me a 5'10 190 pound forward can have as much grit as anyone, a lack of height is overrated imo, I would take someone with great core strength in a compact frame over some 6'5 beanpool that has poor balance/lower body strength.

I would certainly describe Hudon as defensively responsible and that he has some sandpaper to his game.

Can is not the same as does. Sure, hypothetically a small guy can have some grit but its not hudon. We are back in the same trap, calchenyuk can hypothetically play C, a team could hypothetically do OK without a #1 or a #2 C, a guy like danault could be slotted in as a #1 and do well.

If you look at Hudson's skill set, he's probably best in the 2nd or third line. Because we have a logjam of similar players to assume that he would succeed on the fourth, not because he has the attributes of a fourth liner, but because that's the only slot open means we get what we have gotten ( things like our biggest net presence is gallagher and the notion that we could somehow slot Drouin in as a center bevause we lack many).

If you want guys to contribute, determine what their skill sets are and where they are most likely to be able to leverage these skills to help the team. For hudon, that's NOT on the 4th line.

 

[Adam Michaels]

If this kid pans out, it will be exciting to have 4 young players with high potential in Galchenyuk, Drouin, Lehkonen, and Hudon.

Can is not the same as does. Sure, hypothetically a small guy can have some grit but its not hudon. We are back in the same trap, calchenyuk can hypothetically play C, a team could hypothetically do OK without a #1 or a #2 C, a guy like danault could be slotted in as a #1 and do well.

If you look at Hudson's skill set, he's probably best in the 2nd or third line. Because we have a logjam of similar players to assume that he would succeed on the fourth, not because he has the attributes of a fourth liner, but because that's the only slot open means we get what we have gotten ( things like our biggest net presence is gallagher and the notion that we could somehow slot Drouin in as a center bevause we lack many).

If you want guys to contribute, determine what their skill sets are and where they are most likely to be able to leverage these skills to help the team. For hudon, that's NOT on the 4th line.

There is nothing wrong with him starting on the 4th line. It doesn't mean he will spend the year there or go to Laval. I think he is suited to be a Top-9. But last year, Byron and Danault both started on the 4th line. Circumstances lead to them going up the line-up and they did very well. But circumstances present themselves every year, whether through injuries or just some players having a bad game or bad sequence of games and the coach looks to change things up. So Hudon could prove he has what it takes to move up in the line-up. Right now, Hudon needs to be in the line-up night in and night out. Not to be someone who gets sent down and called up or someone who gets scratched one night and dresses up the next night. If that means being on the 4th line, so be it. Once that is at least done, then he can establish himself in a more important role.

 

[Habs Halifax]

since he was drafted I started watching him, he always seemed good in his own end and played with some sandpaper. To me I was always surprised he didn't get his teeth knocked down his throat as over the years I've seen him yapping at much bigger guys after the whistle and sticking his nose in to mix things up and I would think he's going to get punched in the face but then doesn't.



To me a 5'10 190 pound forward can have as much grit as anyone, a lack of height is overrated imo, I would take someone with great core strength in a compact frame over some 6'5 beanpool that has poor balance/lower body strength.

I would certainly describe Hudon as defensively responsible and that he has some sandpaper to his game.

Where do you see Hudon fitting in the Habs roster this year? I do believe we might be surprised with his ability to create offense but who does he replace or win a job over?

 

[Adam Michaels]

Where do you see Hudon fitting in the Habs roster this year? I do believe we might be surprised with his ability to create offense but who does he replace or win a job over?

Personally, I think he only needs to beat out Martinsen and De La Rose. Hudon is a LW,
so to me, the LW's are Pacioretty, Lehkonen, and Byron. I believe they are the LWs on the Top-9. So at the moment, I think all he needs to do is prove he is better than Martinsen and DLR, which he can do.

At last year's camp, genius MT had him play RW, so the poor kid already had the odds to make the team out of camp stacked against him. Hopefully that won't be the case this year. I have a lot more faith in CJ's competence.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Personally, I think he only needs to beat out Martinsen and De La Rose. Hudon is a LW,
so to me, the LW's are Pacioretty, Lehkonen, and Byron. I believe they are the LWs on the Top-9. So at the moment, I think all he needs to do is prove he is better than Martinsen and DLR, which he can do.

At last year's camp, genius MT had him play RW, so the poor kid already had the odds to make the team out of camp stacked against him. Hopefully that won't be the case this year. I have a lot more faith in CJ's competence.

Fair assessment. I just hope he gets a shot at playing with other offensive talent in the top 9 at times and I'm sure he will. To me, he has a outside chance at swapping spots with Byron or even Lehkonen in certain games.

Patch / Galchenyuk / Gallagher
Lehkonen / Danault / Drouin
Hudon / Pleky / Shaw
Byron / Mitchell / Hemsky
DLR, Martinsen

or

Patch / Galchenyuk / Gallagher
Hudon / Danault / Drouin
Lehkonen / Pleky / Hemsky
Byron / Mitchell / Shaw
DLR, Martinsen

The more I think about it, McCarron starts in the AHL unless he comes to camp and impresses big time! I just don't see it happening as he was always considered a long term project, he is still waivers exempt, and he would benefit from being the #1C in the AHL for one more year. We don't need McCarron to be a 4th line grinder (those are easy to find), we need him to be a middle 6 forward with a bit of offense to go with his physical game.

 

[LaP]

The more I think about it, McCarron starts in the AHL unless he comes to camp and impresses big time! I just don't see it happening as he was always considered a long term project, he is still waivers exempt, and he would benefit from being the #1C in the AHL for one more year. We don't need McCarron to be a 4th line grinder (those are easy to find), we need him to be a middle 6 forward with a bit of offense to go with his physical game.

We need BigMac to be what he can be. If he develops into a 4th line player so be it. That's where he should be used. Yeah 4th line players are easy to find but you still should aim at developing your own. Kids who grow up in your team tend to identify to your team more and are more willing to pay the price for it. Filling your bottom 6 with journeymen you must replace every 2 or 3 years is not a good strategy imo.

But yeah BigMac is waiver exempt while Hudon and DLR are not and it's gonna be hard for him to make the team. I would not feel comfortable with losing Hudon or DLR without giving them one last real chance to figure it out. DLR gonna be at worst a good 4th line player anyway.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

I thought Bergevin said he was the one to step up and replace Radulov?

He said to replace his goals, not replace him. Replacing Radulov as a player is ridiculous to say, but replacing his 15 goals after backing out his 3 empty netters it isn't that far fetched.

 

[sandysan]

There is nothing wrong with him starting on the 4th line. It doesn't mean he will spend the year there or go to Laval. I think he is suited to be a Top-9. But last year, Byron and Danault both started on the 4th line.

so we are going to start him on the fourth line as a way to showcase him for promotion to the third line by asking him to succeed in parts of the game he is ill suited for ?

I also think that he is well suited for 4-9, in fact that's my point. If you put him at 10-11-12 I think that these positions FORCE him to play to something ( and with linemates) that are not aligned with his strengths. I am tired of guys being put into what amounts to untenable situations where going in their likelihood of success is already low and then hope for the best. That's how we have danault as our presumed 1C.

I really really really hope we don't put him on the fourth line just in case someone on lines 2 or 3 gets hurt or is underperforming. The 4th line should not be a placeholder for the first three lines. As I see it I don't have huge expectations for the fourth line but the little expectations I do have, I do not see how hudon scratches that itch.

 

[Sorinth]

so we are going to start him on the fourth line as a way to showcase him for promotion to the third line by asking him to succeed in parts of the game he is ill suited for ?

I also think that he is well suited for 4-9, in fact that's my point. If you put him at 10-11-12 I think that these positions FORCE him to play to something ( and with linemates) that are not aligned with his strengths. I am tired of guys being put into what amounts to untenable situations where going in their likelihood of success is already low and then hope for the best. That's how we have danault as our presumed 1C.

I really really really hope we don't put him on the fourth line just in case someone on lines 2 or 3 gets hurt or is underperforming. The 4th line should not be a placeholder for the first three lines. As I see it I don't have huge expectations for the fourth line but the little expectations I do have, I do not see how hudon scratches that itch.

I'm not a huge fan of him on the 4th line, but to say he's ill suited for the 4th line isn't really true. It all depends on what you use your 4th line for. If you want a crash and bang 4th line then sure he's not suited to that. If you just want them to go out and outplay the opposing teams 4th line for 10 mins then Hudon can do that.

 

[ECWHSWI]

He said to replace his goals, not replace him. Replacing Radulov as a player is ridiculous to say, but replacing his 15 goals after backing out his 3 empty netters it isn't that far fetched.

just the goals ?

 

[Scriptor]

so we are going to start him on the fourth line as a way to showcase him for promotion to the third line by asking him to succeed in parts of the game he is ill suited for ?

I also think that he is well suited for 4-9, in fact that's my point. If you put him at 10-11-12 I think that these positions FORCE him to play to something ( and with linemates) that are not aligned with his strengths. I am tired of guys being put into what amounts to untenable situations where going in their likelihood of success is already low and then hope for the best. That's how we have danault as our presumed 1C.

I really really really hope we don't put him on the fourth line just in case someone on lines 2 or 3 gets hurt or is underperforming. The 4th line should not be a placeholder for the first three lines. As I see it I don't have huge expectations for the fourth line but the little expectations I do have, I do not see how hudon scratches that itch.

This statement just shows an outdated appreciation of line exploitation in the NHL.

Your measuring stick of how Hudon would be used on a 4th line certainly applies if the team lacks talented depth.

There's no doubt that a 4th line will need to be defensivey sound, but it won't necessarily be asked to refuse to contribute offensively, especially if the talent is there for it to do so.

If Julien went with an entirely probable fourth line of Hudon - McCarron - Hemsky, the younger LW would be extremely well served by playing on the fourth line.

For one, Hemsky is a quick RW with playmaking ability and a knack for gaining the O-zone in possession of the puck. He could surely set up Hudon's wicked shot and control the puck long enough in the O-zone for the slower skater to trail on the play and find open ice to shoot from.

Also, McCarron and Hudon already have chemistry from playing together in an offensive role at the AHL level. McCarron can draw attention from opposing Ds and give Hudon a greater chance at finding the sweet spot from which to shoot.

Both MaCarron and Hemsky have a sound defensive game and Hudon has vastly improved in that department under Lefebvre's tutelage. This fourth line would not be easily exposed because of some glaring defensive deficiency. Also, Hudon would benefit from prior chemistry with a player in his age group (McCarron) and the calming veteran presence of Hemsky.

Lastly, if you look at Claude Julien and, primarily at the year which BOS won the Cup under him, this head coach used one of the best 3rd and 4th lines in the NHL that post season, relying on positions 6-12 to give his team an edge over the competition. He also rolled out his four lines rather regularly and the 6-12 positions enjoyed better ice time and better game situations that they otherwise would have had they been strictly energy players.

If Julien can ice a line of Hudon - McCarron - Hemsky that can keep the puck out of Price's net and contribute precious secondary scoring as they face off against weaker opposition, Hudon will be better for it as he gets accustomed to the pace at the NHL level and the Habs, a team that is notorious for low goal-production these last years, wouldn't need to rely strictly on one or two lines to provide Offense.

Everyone would benefit from some offensive support from the Hudon - McCarron - Hemsky line as pressure wouldn't be so heavy on their shoulders, especially for a new addition like Drouin, for the newly re-signd Galchenyuk who must already feel that he must still prove himself and for a player like Gallagher that surely needs to feel like he will one day come back from a miserable step backwards in offensive production as a result of two hand injuries.

I could see a lineup (not saying I would want it exactly this way, but trying to guess what Julien would do) like the following, in which Hudon would be a productive member of a more difficult team to play against than many may now think the Habs will be:

Pacioretty - Danault - Drouin
Byron - Plekanec - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - Shaw - Lehkonen
Hudon - McCarron - Hemsky

While Shaw (and Galchenyuk's) line will be the second offensive line on this team, I wouldn't be surprised to see Plekanec's line get 2nd line minutes as it is, once again, asked to play the tough minutes against the opposition's best lines.

 

[Price is Wright]

I could see a lineup (not saying I would want it exactly this way, but trying to guess what Julien would do) like the following, in which Hudon would be a productive member of a more difficult team to play against than many may now think the Habs will be:

Pacioretty - Danault - Drouin
Byron - Plekanec - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - Shaw - Lehkonen
Hudon - McCarron - Hemsky

Oh gosh that's ugly.

 

[Scriptor]

Oh gosh that's ugly.

Is it, really?

Not my favourite lineup -- by a stretch -- but excessively sound, IMO, and not improbable when you consider Julien.

 

[Belial]

Is it, really?

Not my favourite lineup -- by a stretch -- but excessively sound, IMO, and not improbable when you consider Julien.

I don't think the Shaw at center experience was a success, he's a lot more comfortable on the wing. One of Drouin or Chucky will definitely play at center IMO.

 

[sandysan]

This statement just shows an outdated appreciation of line exploitation in the NHL.

Your measuring stick of how Hudon would be used on a 4th line certainly applies if the team lacks talented depth.

There's no doubt that a 4th line will need to be defensivey sound, but it won't necessarily be asked to refuse to contribute offensively, especially if the talent is there for it to do so.

If Julien went with an entirely probable fourth line of Hudon - McCarron - Hemsky, the younger LW would be extremely well served by playing on the fourth line.

For one, Hemsky is a quick RW with playmaking ability and a knack for gaining the O-zone in possession of the puck. He could surely set up Hudon's wicked shot and control the puck long enough in the O-zone for the slower skater to trail on the play and find open ice to shoot from.

Also, McCarron and Hudon already have chemistry from playing together in an offensive role at the AHL level. McCarron can draw attention from opposing Ds and give Hudon a greater chance at finding the sweet spot from which to shoot.

Both MaCarron and Hemsky have a sound defensive game and Hudon has vastly improved in that department under Lefebvre's tutelage. This fourth line would not be easily exposed because of some glaring defensive deficiency. Also, Hudon would benefit from prior chemistry with a player in his age group (McCarron) and the calming veteran presence of Hemsky.

Lastly, if you look at Claude Julien and, primarily at the year which BOS won the Cup under him, this head coach used one of the best 3rd and 4th lines in the NHL that post season, relying on positions 6-12 to give his team an edge over the competition. He also rolled out his four lines rather regularly and the 6-12 positions enjoyed better ice time and better game situations that they otherwise would have had they been strictly energy players.

If Julien can ice a line of Hudon - McCarron - Hemsky that can keep the puck out of Price's net and contribute precious secondary scoring as they face off against weaker opposition, Hudon will be better for it as he gets accustomed to the pace at the NHL level and the Habs, a team that is notorious for low goal-production these last years, wouldn't need to rely strictly on one or two lines to provide Offense.

Everyone would benefit from some offensive support from the Hudon - McCarron - Hemsky line as pressure wouldn't be so heavy on their shoulders, especially for a new addition like Drouin, for the newly re-signd Galchenyuk who must already feel that he must still prove himself and for a player like Gallagher that surely needs to feel like he will one day come back from a miserable step backwards in offensive production as a result of two hand injuries.

I could see a lineup (not saying I would want it exactly this way, but trying to guess what Julien would do) like the following, in which Hudon would be a productive member of a more difficult team to play against than many may now think the Habs will be:

Pacioretty - Danault - Drouin
Byron - Plekanec - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - Shaw - Lehkonen
Hudon - McCarron - Hemsky

While Shaw (and Galchenyuk's) line will be the second offensive line on this team, I wouldn't be surprised to see Plekanec's line get 2nd line minutes as it is, once again, asked to play the tough minutes against the opposition's best lines.

What was the knock on mccarron as a C last year? His speed which CJ said he needs to get better on. So mccarron who is already our designated heavy is going to center a line with a small undersized winger who is still sipping his nhl cup of coffee and a player who was never great offensively and is on the decline.

You want them to be an exploitation 4thh becuase they can"t play shutdown and you don't expect much from them offensively? So you don"kt really want a 4th line but a lines that isn't 1 through three.

That 4th is poorly designed to hold the fort, can't bang or punish the opposition and you don't expect them to contribute offensively which seems to me they don't get a lot of ice. So you compound the fact that this line would not be leveraging the skills they have by stapling them to the bench.

And THAT's the situation you think hudon plays his way onto the third line????????

I don't see it.

 

[Scriptor]

What was the knock on mccarron as a C last year? His speed which CJ said he needs to get better on. So mccarron who is already our designated heavy is going to center a line with a small undersized winger who is still sipping his nhl cup of coffee and a player who was never great offensively and is on the decline.

You want them to be an exploitation 4thh becuase they can"t play shutdown and you don't expect much from them offensively? So you don"kt really want a 4th line but a lines that isn't 1 through three.

That 4th is poorly designed to hold the fort, can't bang or punish the opposition and you don't expect them to contribute offensively which seems to me they don't get a lot of ice. So you compound the fact that this line would not be leveraging the skills they have by stapling them to the bench.

And THAT's the situation you think hudon plays his way onto the third line????????

I don't see it.

I really think you misread. I DO expect them to contribute offensively! You may think that they will suck offensively -- and that's your right. I don't agree with that.

IMO, Hudon, playing with McCarron, will be comfortable and confident because he already played with McCarron in a scoring role at the AHL level (why do I feel I'm repeating myself?) and hem sky may not be a sniper, but he's a speedy, more than adequate playmaker. Ironically, Hudon is a great shot (it's one of his strengths.

All three are adequate enough defensively to roll out this fourth line without fear of it being overly exposed.

The opposition against this line won't be the opposition's defensive juggernauts or shutdown specialists, so the Habs' 4th line should be better matched to produce offensively, even if they aren't first line quality players!

I think Hudon plays his way onto a third line -- might not even need to this season if this line is successful -- once he gains experience and adapts to the tempo at the NHL level.

He certainly wouldn't be in a position, on a line with Macaroon and Hemsky, where he couldn't show glimpses of his skill level that would convince Julien he might be ready for a bigger role the he is.

too bad that you can't see that.

I certainly wouldn't put Hudon on a 4th line with Martinsen and Mitchell. My purpose is not to exploit the 4th line as a purely energy line or a strictly shutdown line.

I think that they will hold their own defensively and certainly provide more offense than you might think.

My reasoning is light years from what you portrayed where I would've suggested this line because I think they can't hit, won't stop opponents from scoring and won't contribute any Offense. Yeah, that really sounds like something I wrote! WTF!?

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

What was the knock on mccarron as a C last year? His speed which CJ said he needs to get better on...

It was more conditioning, resulting in a distinct lack of speed/intensity/consistency later in games.

 

[The Great Weal]

Hopefully the guy that we never gave a fair shot in the NHL when we struggled to score a single goal can replace our best forward from last season. *signs Hemsky* Yeah never mind, you can continue to rot in the AHL.