Post-Game Talk: Champitals @ Preds

[sycamore]

Crowded at the the top of the Met -- Jackets, Caps, Islanders and Pens all within a point or two of each other
(where in the world did the Islanders come from?)

 

[Capsman]

Swap Forsberg for Wilson in the playoffs last season, do you think the Caps still win the Cup? I 100% do not. Has nothing to do with who is better, of course FF is better, it has to do with who is more valuable.

Also **** you George McPhee!!!

I do. Don't get me wrong, Wilson has become a good player, but I think the whole intimidation of defensemen things is overblown. The Caps won because of smart, tough hockey...not intimidation. Forsberg can do everything Tom does (doesn't hit as hard, but would certainly open things up for OV and Kuzy in his own way and can play RW.) Ideally he's in place of Oshie; if McPhee never makes that trade we likely wouldn't have traded for Oshie and I believe we win the cup and are stronger moving forward.

 

[Melkor]

Would really like to listen anybody with good arguments for the idea that had the Caps had Forsberg on the 1st line instead of Wilson they wouldn't have won the cup. Homerism is a good thing but everything has to have limits.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Skilled play and physical play are very different things... Wilson is a game changer...

 

[StrikingDistance]

I do. Don't get me wrong, Wilson has become a good player, but I think the whole intimidation of defensemen things is overblown. The Caps won because of smart, tough hockey...not intimidation. Forsberg can do everything Tom does (doesn't hit as hard, but would certainly open things up for OV and Kuzy in his own way and can play RW.) Ideally he's in place of Oshie; if McPhee never makes that trade we likely wouldn't have traded for Oshie and I believe we win the cup and are stronger moving forward.

I think the 'tough hockey' includes the intimidation. Forsberg doesn't exude toughness nor is he a guy who will get scrappy in the scrum or will drop the mitts. Intimidation/fear go a long way. If you're an opposing dman, are you going to hold onto the puck for an extra centi or millisecond, or take the hit from Wilson that may or may not end the playoffs or your career? People make dumb decisions when faced with fear.

Anyway, moving on.

 

[StrikingDistance]

Watched the Canes-Preds game the other night and the Preds got spanked by a highly motivated/energized Canes team. They'll either be motivated to rebound or be like the Caps and keep coasting.

That said, I'm going to put as much effort into watching this game as the Caps have lately been into playing hockey. I expect to be more entertained (for better or worse) by this board than the game.

Make it happen!

Thanks everyone!

 

[Ridley Simon]

I do. Don't get me wrong, Wilson has become a good player, but I think the whole intimidation of defensemen things is overblown. The Caps won because of smart, tough hockey...not intimidation. Forsberg can do everything Tom does (doesn't hit as hard, but would certainly open things up for OV and Kuzy in his own way and can play RW.) Ideally he's in place of Oshie; if McPhee never makes that trade we likely wouldn't have traded for Oshie and I believe we win the cup and are stronger moving forward.

You cant remove one deal like that -- in a vacuum -- and leave the rest of it alone.

No trade may very well mean McPhee doesnt get canned then. Which means no GMBM, No Trotz, no Niskanen, no Orpik, etc etc etc. Could easily mean NO Championship. At ALL

It's silly to talk about it like you are doing, as you are not looking at all of the impact. Not even a little bit.

 

[Capsman]

You cant remove one move like that in a vacuum and leave the rest of it alone.

No trade may very well mean McPhee doesnt get canned then. Which means no GMBM, No Trotz, no Niskanen, no Orpik, etc etc etc. Could easily mean NO Championship.

It's silly to talk about like you are doing, as its not looking at all of the impact. Not even a little bit.

Your point about McPhee is valid. Didn't think of that angle, he might not have been canned.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

GMGM put a toxic culture in that GMBM and Trotz had to fix.

 

[Capsman]

I think the 'tough hockey' includes the intimidation. Forsberg doesn't exude toughness nor is he a guy who will get scrappy in the scrum or will drop the mitts. Intimidation/fear go a long way. If you're an opposing dman, are you going to hold onto the puck for an extra centi or millisecond, or take the hit from Wilson that may or may not end the playoffs or your career? People make dumb decisions when faced with fear.

Anyway, moving on.

I think any intimidation by Wilson to make a D-man give up the puck/turn it over is offset by Forsberg's ability to hold onto the puck probably better than anyone besides Backstrom. He not only can make slick moves but shields the puck extremely well, something we seem to be sorely missing among our cadre of top 6. Oshie has been OK at that in the past but not so much of late. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Sam Spade]

You are too hung up on Orpik. He hasn't been that bad since his return. We should be discussing the Orlov/ Niskanen pair.

I'm not hung up at all, facts are facts. The Caps have a MUCH better record when Orpik is sitting. Is it all coincidence, probably, but it is what it is.

The Sharks are rolling, like playing Cup winning hockey. This all coincided with Marc Edward-Vlasic going down, he was playing really bad and the defense was a sieve. Now that he is ready to come back the fans don't want to mess with it, just as the Caps shouldn't have messed with 19-7-1.

Injury Report: - Braun, Vlasic

 

[twabby]

Would really like to listen anybody with good arguments for the idea that had the Caps had Forsberg on the 1st line instead of Wilson they wouldn't have won the cup. Homerism is a good thing but everything has to have limits.

Because no one team is ever going to have greater than like, 30% odds of winning the Stanley Cup in a given season. Too much randomness and parity.

If you restarted the 2018 postseason with Forsberg, the Capitals would have likely lost. If you restarted the 2018 postseason with nothing at all changed (that is within their control), the Capitals would have likely lost.

 

[Sam Spade]

Would really like to listen anybody with good arguments for the idea that had the Caps had Forsberg on the 1st line instead of Wilson they wouldn't have won the cup. Homerism is a good thing but everything has to have limits.

Wilson took Tampa's 1st line out of the conf final and Vegas' top line out of the Final with his physical presence and took a ton of the physical load off of Ovie. Good enough?

 

[Chukcha]

well, at least we aren't peaking too early. I can't say i'm worried too much. The team is heavy and slow, it's floundering in the mud. They have to get as many points as possible until the ASG and overcome this tough stretch without injuries. Good for Ovi to miss the meaningless ASG. After the off week you'll see another team with fresh legs in spring. The pens are playing in the same scenario. It's two very experienced teams. They don't care about the regular season rankings. Their goal in the RS is just to clinch a playoff spot, let it be even a "pathetic" 7th or 8th seed. They definitely don't want to burn the villages now and then to die when the playoffs come. They are not Tampa. They know it will be another kind of sport in April.

 

[Bladerunner]

Love Willie and what the brings to the Caps. However Forsberg has the edge in skill although Tom is having a superb season so far. Tom is bigger and only ~5 months older.

Don't see why the Caps wouldn't have won the SC if FF replaces Wilson. Forsberg's playoff stats are very good - he doesn't fade when the games become more intense. The past two seasons he has 32 (16G) points in 35 GP and +16.

 

[Melkor]

Because no one team is ever going to have greater than like, 30% odds of winning the Stanley Cup in a given season. Too much randomness and parity.

If you restarted the 2018 postseason with Forsberg, the Capitals would have likely lost. If you restarted the 2018 postseason with nothing at all changed (that is within their control), the Capitals would have likely lost.

Kinda lame. The talk clearly is not about a probability theory in a vacuum and mathematical side of things.

Wilson took Tampa's 1st line out of the conf final and Vegas' top line out of the Final with his physical presence and took a ton of the physical load off of Ovie. Good enough?

How does that make Forsberg a lesser player or contributor? It might be a surprise for some here but Forsberg is a very good two way player with better hands and clearly the better shot. And he's big so the physical stuff has never been anything close to weakness of his. Don't see the argument against him i nyor response. Its kind of same as saying Mcphee wouldnt have been fired if he didnt trade Forsberg for peanuts. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he would've been fired regardless of that because he was going to miss the playoffs anyways and the team was a shitshow still.

 

[RandyHolt]

I do. Don't get me wrong, Wilson has become a good player, but I think the whole intimidation of defensemen things is overblown. The Caps won because of smart, tough hockey...not intimidation. Forsberg can do everything Tom does (doesn't hit as hard, but would certainly open things up for OV and Kuzy in his own way and can play RW.) Ideally he's in place of Oshie; if McPhee never makes that trade we likely wouldn't have traded for Oshie and I believe we win the cup and are stronger moving forward.

There is no guarantee FF would have meshed on our top line. In fact, I think history has shown a big burly space and poutine eating winger works best. Without a fully functioning ES top line, dare I think no team can win the cup.

Tom became the perfect fit on our top line. He had a huge hand in many goals with his fine assists, notably stretch and board plays vs Pitt and G7 vs Tampa trucking Kunitz to get us the early goal. He helped slay 2 big dragons. HUGE.

Also, FF would have never had the chance to develop here like he did in Nashville. Maybe he would have become the same player here, or maybe he would have Bura'd his way to Hershey after being buried on 4 for a few years. Certainly PP time would have been minimal....

 

[searle]

Crowded at the the top of the Met -- Jackets, Caps, Islanders and Pens all within a point or two of each other
(where in the world did the Islanders come from?)

If the Islanders somehow play the Leafs in the playoffs and knock them out I would be SO happy.

 

[Devil Dancer]

I just want the Caps to make the playoffs and avoid Pitt in the first round. Oh, and to go in relatively healthy.

I still expect those things to happen, though health is obviously a wild card.

I would feel better if Kuzy were playing closer to the version of himself that lifted the Cup. I'm no txmd, but that concussion really seemed to knock him off his game. He misses simple open passes sometimes now!

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Omg who cares about FF?!?

Get off your knees it’s embarassing!

 

[Sam Spade]

If the Islanders somehow play the Leafs in the playoffs and knock them out I would be SO happy.

As would the entire hockey world.

Well, with one exception.

 

[Sam Spade]

How does that make Forsberg a lesser player or contributor? It might be a surprise for some here but Forsberg is a very good two way player with better hands and clearly the better shot. And he's big so the physical stuff has never been anything close to weakness of his. Don't see the argument against him i nyor response. Its kind of same as saying Mcphee wouldnt have been fired if he didnt trade Forsberg for peanuts.

He is a great two way player but the bolded is just wrong. Any time he tries to play a physical game he gets injured. So clearly it is a weakness.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

The Forsberg obsession some of you have is really getting weird.

As for the players who play on the Washington Capitals, I'll start getting worried towards the end of Feb. Their big guns are cold, 5-on-5 scoring has dried up, they're bleeding chances against, and goaltending isn't saving them. Last night was bad but not 7-2 bad.

They look like they've hit a wall. They need a breather - perhaps the ASG is finally coming at the right time for them after years of us cursing the timing of that break and their uninspired play after it?

 

[Melkor]

He is a great two way player but the bolded is just wrong. Any time he tries to play a physical game he gets injured. So clearly it is a weakness.

He was regarded as a power forward coming into the draft and from what I've seen he sure knows a thing or two about using the body. Anyways, saying Caps definitely wouldnt have won with him and Wilson in the lineup is not a very smart thing to say. There's a good chance with the way he performs in the playoffs that FF would have been able to pick a corner once or twice in clutch momentsof those two Pens series that the Caps lost instead of f***ing around.

 

[Melkor]

Some people sure really like to downplay Forsberg's abilities to make themselves feel better about the team. Ofcourse, it would really hurt to have him and Wilson both at the same time in the lineup. Get real, it's embarassing.