Confirmed Trade: [CBJ/NJD] D Damon Severson traded to the Blue Jackets for CGY 2023 3rd round pick (sign and trade, 8 years, $6.25M AAV)
- Thread starter Koivu11
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KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
BB88
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- Jan 19, 2015
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It’s different to bring in Dmen and bringing in quality Dmen.
Columbus has spend 1st round draft picks on Jiricek(franchise 1D prospect), Mateychuk& Ceulemans and have Svozil as well.
While at the same time they now have Werenski, Provorov& Severson as quality top4 Dmen. Those early Buffalo teams never had anything close to that, as Ristolainen was their ”best” Dman. He could be brought up as #4 in Columbus or be left in the AHL to keep developing like they can do with Jiricek.
Instead 19y Ristolainen was playing 1D/1st pair minutes in the NHL with zero sheltering, with a bad to average Dpartner.
Buffalo didn’t have any quality vets to shelter those kids/bring them up with time.
It was a complete tire fire of a situation and one easy way to make sure you are hurting your best prospects development. You are teaching them bad habits& losing culture.
So don’t tell me they did anywhere close to what Columbus is doing with their prospects and team
So in short not at any point did Buffalo have a veteran group similar to Werenski, Provorov, Severson on their blueline during the forever rebuild.
Buffalo was like Anaheim is today
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Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Both Davidson and Kekalainen have been consistent in saying the plan is indeed to draft a center.
They've been losing for a long time. I think whatever "losing culture" you're trying to avoid may already be established.
Also, what's a successful season then? Is 10th in the East considered a success?
I'm guessing they have one more big move coming.
Boqvist+Sillinger+24 1st(top10 protect) for extended Lindholm.
Boqvist+Sillinger+24 1st(top10 protect) for extended Lindholm.
They made the playoffs (as a weak team) for a few years running, then managed to get past the first round and played competitively against the eventual Cup champs in 2019. They lost of a bunch of key players and still got past Toronto the following year in the play-in.
Since then, they've been rebuilding.
I don't think that timeline constitutes "losing for a long time".
Not the person you're responding to but challenging for a WC spot next year would be certainly considered a success.
NJ just had 4 losing seasons before this year and 1 successful season makes people forget that. This was Columbus' 3rd losing season in a row and added some pieces along the way. I dont see a NJ type jump just yet but I expect it to fairly significant over what we watched last year. Id say we just want a watchable product where people are developing and likely atleast challenge for the playoffs
The young players on the team have only been part of losing seasons. Honestly I don't give much credence to the "culture" factor or whatever. I just don't really see a coherent plan from Jarmo.
The reason that I had hope for NJ taking a big step was that their underlying metrics (e.g. xG%) in 21-22 were actually pretty good. This is not the case with CBJ.
I don't think CBJ fans are generally expecting the Jackets to take a NJ-style step into the playoffs next year. I think the expectation/hope is that this upcoming season for the Jackets more resembles the NJ-season you're describing in the season prior to last. Still probably won't make the playoffs, but things are looking up as the young dudes continue to grow & improve. I would also expect the D acquisitions to improve quite a few things. Maybe they sneak in next year, but that would exceed my expectations tbh.
Thats fine but how do you judge half a roster using advanced stats like it can give any true representation? Noone knows what this team is even before the Provorov/Severson moves. The team had Gudbranson and Peeke playing 21+ a night and this year its likely 1 of them isnt in the lineup, they are effectively adding 3 guys (Werenski, Provorov and Severson) better than anyone on the roster for 3/4 of the season. Boqvist and Severson are probably fairly comparable though. Then add the fact Larsen to Babcock is a 180 in almost all area's and we are all left guessing at how this is going to work, there is no way we can go off of last season.
That's fair enough I suppose because these moves for Provorov and Severson seem surprising at first. After giving it some thought, though, with the addition of Babcock as HC, there's some coherence there- Severson seems to be very alert to get the puck out of the zone, and I think Provorov as well? In terms of first passes. Which aligns with some of Babcock's approach. Werenski is no slouch in that regard, either.
Beyond trying to make that case, though, Jarmo spent little real capital and transformed the Jackets' defense in a few days. That was one of the biggest weaknesses of the team.
I don't think its fair to judge the entirety of the Jackets roster based on last season. If they aren't number 1 on most injured players or days injured then they are a close 2nd. I think next season they are going to remind me of the Flames, An average team that probably fighting for the 8th seed right to the last game.
Once their prospects are ready to be called up they won't be like the Flames though.
Once their prospects are ready to be called up they won't be like the Flames though.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I think the Habs just overtook us in the last couple weeks; they had a bigger injury wave to close the season out. But yeah.
Xoggz22
Registered User
My guess would be electronically but maybe pen and paper are still a thing?
yeah, yeah... I'm sure an assortment of Bridge deals and long term potential will be in order. Blankenburg, Sillinger and Chinakhov are strong bridge candidates whereas KJ and Marchenko could be in the long term discussion. The others are support players and should not see significant raises. Texier is the interesting one. Being away from the NHL for a year will require evaluating his play over the course of the year to see where he fits in the plan.
I've not seen NJ considered that way. Much less pressure there than for the Isles or Rags
Only when they lose to the Rangers or the Flyers. Then the pressure starts to heat up.
BB88
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What do you mean losing for a long time?
They drafted 12th overall a year ago and were a consistent playoff team few years ago
That’s not the same as being a basement level team for years.
Xoggz22
Registered User
If anything, I would think you could point to Jarmo not appearing to have plan going in to last year. CBJ was coming off the worst goals allowed in team history and the mantra was they would fix the defense (this was going in to last year) and he did nothing for the defense beyond bringing in Gudbranson - who was expected to be a 3rd pair, crease clearing, heavy body, keep away from our kids, type player. The defense was expected to improve through internal growth. Blankenburg, Bean, Werenski and Boqvist all got injured, Peeke was terrible and playing too high in the lineup and Gudbranson was not put in a position to do what he was brought in to do. Gavrikov was good, not great but also had no support beyond an AHL rotating door.
This year, he finally addresses the defense that will support short and long term with NHL talent that is top 4 talent. This allows the plethora of young prospects to grow and with improved coaching structure should drive improvement. That, to me, is a plan. They haven't sacrificed any of the future for short term gain. They still retain a top 3 prospect pool that can continue to be used for higher end NHL talent and still fill in with the higher end prospects. It's a rebuild and that's not just done with rookies and draft picks. Jarmo has said he doesn't want to be on the outside watching the playoffs anymore but he hasn't sacrificed the long term viability of this team.
Now there are still the "ifs" around development but it appears they are doing that pretty well and the young roster, deep prospect pool and now capable additions to the top end of the lineup should accelerate that, not move to "build be damned" status.
They missed the playoffs three seasons in a row. Not sure what the length of time is required to develop a "losing culture".
I mean, the defense is improved. But these moves suggest an organizational ethos of "playoffs" now. Realistically is that going to happen?
I also don't get the Severson bet for the organization. He's not a big defensive presence - he makes his hay moving the puck and the Jackets ostensibly have a lot of young defenseman in that mold and needing those kinds of minutes. Severson isn't a high-leverage guy. He's taking a slot of a younger player needing softer minutes, and his deal will still be on the books when he gets into his 30s and is declining. If he were a John Marino-type, it could make sense. Severson himself? Not really.
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BB88
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Losing culture is learnt when you are at the bottom of the standings, a basement level team(tire fire) and you know that.
They were competive last season and drafted outside the top10.
& only clueless people think these are win now moves, pushing all the chips in the middle
So acquiring prime-age, top-four defenseman are...lose now moves? Is that what you're saying?
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
It's the distinction between "win now" as in "don't lose as many games so the kids have positive examples to learn from as well as negative ones" versus "win now" as in "we've decided we're going to try to be a Cup contender immediately in defiance of all sense and reason".
Without context, most folks refer to "win now" and mean the latter. We're trying for the former.
